The Original Post of John Titor

November 13, 2008 at 5:50 am (Berita Kontroversial)

John Titor – I am from 2036

Post to Post (http://bbs.artbell.com/index.php)

- Time Travel (http://bbs.artbell.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=25)

I am from 2036 (http://bbs.artbell.com/showthread.php?threadid=1203)


Posted by John Titor on 01-27-2001 12:45 PM

Greetings. I am a time traveler from the year 2036. I am on my way
home after getting an IBM 5100 computer system from the year 1975.

My “time” machine is a stationary mass, temporal displacement unit
manufactured by General Electric. The unit is powered by two, top-spin,
dual-positive singularities that produce a standard, off-set Tipler
sinusoid.

I will be happy to post pictures of the unit.


Posted by Mike Klinge on 01-27-2001 03:01 PM

Hi,

As you are well aware of, I am sure, people can post anything here,
whether or not it is true. What proof do you have that you have
traveled through time? Rest assured that I want to believe you, but why
should I believe?

Thank you for indulging me.


Posted by John Titor on 01-27-2001 09:15 PM

I have been commuinicating online with others who are interested in time travel.

Also, for more information:

http://www.p3n.org/pn120100.shtml

[Edited by Mary Rowland on 01-28-2001 at 03:04 PM]


Posted by Kevin Spooner on 01-28-2001 03:23 AM

Question

Just an obviously curious note: If you were returning from the
1970′s to 2036 (um that’s 66 years)…. and you are using a time-travel
machine…. why on earth would you just per chance stop in 2001? Let
alone have a web page.

Answer welcome – I didn’t know time travel had resting stops
between scheduled trips? Hey – I’m not going to disbelieve on that
basis, just curious.


Posted by John Titor on 01-28-2001 06:35 AM

My initial flight was from 2036 to 1975 (61 yrs). I then went from
1975 to 2000 (25 yrs.) Later this year, one of two favorable windows
will open and I will return to my 2036 (35 yrs.) I am here now for
personal reasons. The web page is not mine. I have been speaking online
for about three months and the page is a collection of the various
documents and pictures I have sent to other individuals.

Also, I realize there is no way for anyone to believe me with
absolute certainty so I hope I’m at least entertaining. You may be
interested to know that even in 2036, there are a large number of
people who don’t believe in time travel. Are you sure the world is
round?


Posted by Theresa Wood on 01-28-2001 07:33 PM

I read the q&a on the link posted and I found it to be very
interesting. Whether you are a time traveler or not is not relevant.
This is a very probable scenario of what our future holds if things
continue on their present course. Sometimes we need to step out of a
situation in order to see it more clearly. A time traveler from the
future “seeing” the events of the day helps in understanding the
current social/political trends. You hit it square on the head, in my
opinion. I enjoyed reading it, thanx!


Posted by Jeret Schisler on 01-28-2001 07:40 PM

Wink

John, Can you please tell me some lotto numbers for 2036? I’ll be ready to retire around that time. if I’m still alive. Thanks


Posted by Kevin Spooner on 01-29-2001 02:45 AM

Unhappy

I visited your web page and it immediately struck me with those
“photo’s” you claimed to have put there or made available or believe
in… mind if I ask something to clear my logical thinking mind…

Why is it, given that laser printers etc can print up to 2,400cpi,
(or at least 600cpi) and pictures can be scanned at god only knows what
(9,600+cpi) why your text and graphics appear to be 1950′s reproduction
of a faint typewriter in need of a ribbon replacement (God I havn’t
used the word ‘Ribbon’ since…. hmmm.)

And then there’s the fact that given the obvious typewriter appearance, the ‘text’ sure wasn’t made in 2036.

Oh… please don’t use the “oh – technology went by the board by then.” approach cause it won’t stick.

Please understand that I have examined time travel and parallel
world theories extensively and therefore only seek to clarify these
points with you.


Posted by John Titor on 01-29-2001 07:47 AM

Please keep in mind the web site is not mine and I apologize for the
poor quality of the files. The photo you saw was taken by me with a
Polaroid camera manufactured here. The other documents were duplicated
by placing a book onto a copy machine at a packaging and shipping store
and then scanning and saving them.

As for the printing technology in 2036, you may be surprised at how
many people use typewriters however I agree the documents were probably
not created that way.

I too am very anxious to hear your thoughts and questions on time
travel / gravity displacement and any comments on the Everett Wheeler
Graham model.


Posted by Lee Heggy on 01-29-2001 12:14 PM

2036 sounds more like 1836 with all the ‘good stuff’ of modern life
thrown in. Personally I prefer our current time-line even with all of
it’s excess and decadency it’s an exciting time to be alive and I can
still multiply and divide in my head.


Posted by John Titor on 01-29-2001 03:48 PM

Although the documents posted were printed from a computer printer,
is it really that hard to believe that manual typing is just a bit more
common in thirty years? After the war, many things like manual printing
machines, bicycles, sailboats and hand tools were valued a great deal.
I have noticed more people in California are installing wood burning
stoves.

I realize my claims are a bit ridiculous but my intent is not
really to be believed. However, if I had an opportunity to talk to a
time traveler, I might ask questions like: How exactly does the
singularity sensor measure the expansion of the inner event horizon or
why does the reality of multiple worlds support the religious dogma
that there are no good or bad people just good and bad desicions or
what were the political motivations that changed the U.S. Constitution?


Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 01-29-2001 06:38 PM

Red face

Ho hum…ANOTHER time travler.

Well, time to run him thru the BS o’meter.

Did you ever notice how time travlers never specify events that happen
in the NEAR future? As in a week to a month or so. The reason why is
because then people could check on these “events” to determine if they
have happened or not.

Well John, answer a few questions that any person from the future should know (or at least have easy access to)

1. What was the final death count in the recent India earthquake?

2. What is the “Ginger” (IT) invention?

3. Who wins the Stanley Cup (Hockey) this year?


Posted by Kimberly Nease on 01-29-2001 07:26 PM

Angry

Super questions. This “time traveler” should have NO trouble at all
answering these questions, especially the GINGER one so get cracking
John.

Kim


Posted by John Titor on 01-29-2001 09:10 PM

How do you figure I have easy access? I can appreciate your
skepticism but I must admit I’m confused by your choice of questions. I
fail to understand why a time traveler would be expected to know the
details you ask. Right now, do any of you know the details of the first
week in February for 1970? For that matter, could you tell me from
memory if it rained in Atlanta last week? Is a sports almanac a
required or expected piece of equipment for all “time machines”?

At least you didn’t ask the standard “what stocks should I buy”
question. Interesting that no one ever asks which stocks to sell. I’m
sure my answers will be quite unsatisfying but you should know I do not
want your unshakable faith nor do I think anyone should give it so
easily if a “time traveler” were able to answer those questions.

In fact, over this medium, it’s impossible to prove I’m a time
traveler, therefore, it’s impossible to believe. Actually, I depend on
that a great deal so I don’t have to worry about being picked up by
your friendly law enforcement officers. What do you think they would do
with two micro-singularities?

So here goes…

(1). I have no idea.

(2). It looks like some sort of motorized scooter. What do you think “IT” is?

(3). I know this one but I think it would be unfair and immoral for anyone to win a bet based on something I’ve told them.


Posted by Stephen McKay on 01-29-2001 10:16 PM

I’m sure it would be unfair and immoral if we had certainty, but the
truth is anyone placing a bet on your answer would still be gambling on
whether you are in fact from the future. Spill the beans!


Posted by Kevin Spooner on 01-30-2001 04:57 AM

Talking

I can understand the ethics at hand here quite well. If you know,
for instance, that someone is going to have a fatal accident, or meet
with an unpleasant incident at a specific time, would you tell them the
specifics? I wouldn’t. If you knew when Microsoft was going to break,
or where the next and largest ever earthquake was to hit – would you
tell? There is the matter of ethics indeed. Who want to force
life-changes that are not natural to their path? Paths which
intermingle with all other life, indeed creation played out on this
earth. No indeed you wouldn’t.

Yet if a person already knew, as I do, that they are in the history
books, as I am, but not known widely or available within the community
yet – there is a simple challenge. And no – I am not talking from any
egotistical sense – just one of knowing. However, whether time
travellers wish to demonstrate based on the above is up to them. I
would certainly be forthright in my confirmation to them (private email
is allowed given the circumstances.)

But gentlemen and ladies… it also seems that certain ‘time
travellers’ traverse linear time whereas others appear to travel
cross-dimensionally. Interesting and one worth discussion.

I personally challenge said time traveller(s) to demonstrate their
proof by confirming to me what is already known to me as per my own
history but not yet in public circulation.

And I should add given that scenario – you can not bend or
manipulate my future path because you would not be telling me anything
I did not already know. Fun aye ???


Posted by John Titor on 01-30-2001 06:21 AM

(To the moderators: I apologize for the links, I understand and it
won’t happen again. I will be happy to submit the same material if
there’s a place to post it here.)

In my experience, when it becomes necessary to convince someone
what I do for a living the only way to do that is to be related to
them. Everything else is immediately written off as a parlor trick,
even if they’re standing in front of a cooling distortion unit and I
show them a dollar bill with the year 2029 on it.

In the last few months, I have had numerous extended conversations
online and there are quite a few things I’ve said which can easily be
checked out but haven’t. I get no pleasure out of being right when it
comes to CJD disease, war in the Middle East or suffering people in far
away lands. There’s nothing like the look on someone’s face when you
tell them 100,000 people will be dead tomorrow. In my travels, I have
discovered that most people really don’t want to know about the future
because if its different than what they want it ticks them off.
Actually, I don’t blame them.

The means by which I travel in time is very physical. I require a
“machine” to do it. It weighs about 500 pounds and gets quite hot. I do
not own it and I did not build it. Within limits, I will be happy to
discuss how it works and how “future” science thinks time works. No we
have not completed string theory yet but (N-10) seems to work pretty
well.

As far as the future goes, your worldline is about 2.5% different
than mine. This is a roughly cumulative measurement based on my arrival
in 1975. As far as I can tell right now, you are headed toward the same
events I would call “my history” in 2036. However, the very nature of
time travel states that every worldline is unique and you are very much
in control of what you do and how you get there. Heck, the fact that
I’m here makes it different from mine.

I have nothing to sell, and there is nothing I want anyone to do. For
all other time travelers out there, I have no tests for you and I would
enjoy discussing your feelings and experiences after the war. To
everyone else, while I’m here, I am very interested in your philosophy,
religious outlooks and speculations on technology.


Posted by Kevin Spooner on 01-30-2001 12:36 PM

Wink

Ah… the war. Now that’s interesting. Is it worth mentioning the visions I observed in this or similar respect?

Now as to answering my previous post… I simply placed a task
there that if done would not alter my time-line but for sure answer one
thing – I believe in the reality of Alien technology as I was one of
several verifiable people to OBSERVE the same occurence. I believe in
astral/spiritual travel as a person who has done so and spoken to
others of the same. I believe in the potential of time travel BUT have
not received anything that would make me properly convinced yet.

But then… perchance I missed some other posts prior to this BBS
(although I did on ocassion read the old system when it was active.)

You tell of war… and your desire to study the inhabitants of this
time-line prior to ‘the war’. Is the general population more interested
in (a) mind-baffling time-travel technology, or (b) the events and
observances of a time-traveller? A bit of both perhaps?

Care to shed some light on your view on ‘The War’ and why it is
that technology appears to have gone – or become the seclusive property
of controlling authorities? Interesting. I note also the American
Computer Corporation announcing an alternative storage/processing
system 12,000 times faster than current systems…apparently by
non-human intelligence. Now as a technician, that IS interesting but of
the apparent 3,000 the director sent out…. wonder if there’s one left
for a genuine techo to study?


Posted by John Titor on 01-30-2001 02:09 PM

Sometimes I imagine what it would be like to approach the Wright
Brothers in 1910, before their first flight, and make the suggestion
that in a mere thirty years, man would be on the brink of flying
through the air at the speed of sound.

What tools would I be able to show them that would convince them? Would
a picture of a jet airplane do it? Would complicated math and physics
equations do it? Would it take a ride? Perhaps there will be a way to
share the photos again but I don’t expect it would convince anyone. I
would only hope they would spark conversation and make the reality of
time travel a little more personal.

Although I have no personal experience with non-mechanical time
travel, I cannot discount it. Physics has a way of making the
impossible a reality.

I’m not here to study anyone. My objective was in 1975 and the
reason I’m here now is my family. I find my preconceptions of what I
would encounter interesting. Being exposed to a society through its
art, music and advertising is one thing and experiencing it is another.

I’m not sure the physics of time travel is really that hard to
grasp. Most of the working theory has been around on a large scale
since 1970 and the technical breakthroughs are happening on your
worldline right now.

Technology is not gone in 2036 nor is it the private domain of
“government” leaders. Computer printers just didn’t work very well on
12 volts and many people just got used to doing things the old way.
After the war, the main problem was distribution. Can anyone tell me
how many companies in the United States still manufacture bicycle tires
today? Anyone who still has a bike in 2008 will find out.


Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 01-30-2001 07:58 PM

Red face

The wave rider spun a similar yarn and reeled Art in, hook, line and
sinker. Then Art had him on the show. He started off ok but quickly
went downhill into the Wacko Zone. After he told Art that Marilyn
Monore is not only alive but that she shot JFK there was a LONG silence
from Art. I could hear the gears turning in Art’s head as he finally
realized that he had been suckered.

It was the most glorious moment of silence!

Art recovered and proceeded to blast him.

Now, Back to “John”. Some items, John.

If I traveled back in time I would absolutely want to know the history
of the period and location. Since you have revealed yourself you have
obviously been trying to convince people of you credibility. So since
you had fore knowledge of your intentions you should have been
ABSOLUTELY sure of having easy-to-verify NEAR future history. Showing
crappy pictures of dollar bills from the future is child’s play.

Anybody with a $500 computer can do that. You sound like one of those religious cult nuts whose story keeps changing.

The “temporal divergence” you mention makes it an easy answer for
every probing question. ” Well, because of the temporal divergence, the
whole world just changed, THAT’s why none of my predictions come true.

There is a medical term for people like you.

Look it up!

1. So General Electric makes your TT machine. Well if that’s the
case then being masters of mass production they should have made
millions of them because EVERYONE would want one.

2. If the machine does exist we should be FLOODED with TTer’s right now!

3. CJD That story has been know since the late 1940′s. No great news there.

4. Middle east problems? That’s a no brainer.

You are spitting out the same things Ed Dames did.

None of his predictions came true either…

Yawn…


Posted by Kevin Spooner on 01-31-2001 02:14 AM

Galvanisation is something occasionally found on a packet of
building-grade nails (like ‘galvanised flathead’) But with the lack of
tangible evidence I’m thinking of shifting my belief in just what (or
who) should be termed galvanised?

I have not seen a constructively frameworked document outlining
required ethics which any trained TT would of necessity agree to. I
have not seen a TT willing to forward a single piece of physical time
travel device to this particular technician since first posting
anything over five years ago. I have not heard of any governing
declaration of use for TT devices from the future.

I have seen ‘interesting’ crude pictures, photo’s of items with
curly cords and really pre-1990 style equipment with perchance a few
common dials, needles, and circuits in probably arc-welded metal boxes.
I have seen diagrams, descriptions, interpretations, crude ‘make your
own’ manuals, and the like – and yet nothing, not one iota of anything
that could without question come from some future.

I am not p***ed off – not yet. I am calm (breathe man breathe!) and
wait in anticipation of some correct answers to some simple questions
and for goodness sake… some undoubtable proof. Then – only then -
would constructive discussion really begin.


Posted by John Titor on 01-31-2001 06:30 AM

I’m not aware of any predictions I made or perhaps we do not agree
on the definition. What anyone chooses to do based on something I might
say will not affect me in the least. My goal is not to believed and I
submit that your life would not be any better (and perhaps worse) if
you did believe me. You placed “tests” before me that I must pass. Why?
What do I have to gain by passing them?

The fact is there is nothing I can say or show you or let you drop
hydrochloric acid on that will “make” you believe me and I really don’t
want that. It would be nice to discuss your view on religion, politics,
physics and the mechanical requirements of time travel but in order to
engage in those types of conversations, I must apparently tell you who
wins the hockey game next week. I’m just guessing that if were to write
out the ten lines for Fermat’s final proof you wouldn’t be very
impressed either.

(1) Industrialized mass production does not produce the uncountable
tonnage of useless consumer items so gleefully absorbed by your
society. I would estimate there are about 10 units like mine (C204) and
twenty larger units (C206). The main difference is the sensitivity and
number of the main Cesium clocks. I would estimate that some sort of
public time travel will be common around 2045.

(2) I’m not aware of any other time traveler’s “here” now. But if they
are here, I’m sure they’re pouring over sports history books so they
can go back in time another week and start a friendly conversation on
the web.

(3) The “Mad Cow” story here is yet to begin but don’t worry, the fruited jellitine deserts are safe.

(4) I’m glad to see it’s so easy for to dismiss the Middle East. Yes, I
suppose it is a no brainer but pretty soon it will be a “no arrmer” and
a “no legger”.

Ethics is an excellent topic of discussion and I hope we can move
past a collective insistence of applying everything to this frame of
reference.


Posted by Melinda Floyd on 01-31-2001 10:50 AM

Of course I only speak for myself, but I think it’s irrelevant and
pointless to argue whether or not this man is a Time Traveler or not.
This thread sure beats anything else on the BBS right now, and it
doesn’t matter if what John is claiming is fact, a hypothetical
exercise or pure BS. He’s raised some very interesting points that I
think would be beneficial for discussion:

1) Civil War–considering the current political climate of our
country, this is feasible. Figuring in the pervading apathy regarding
what has happened in the last couple of months (the serious
implications should have at least ‘clicked’ by now), I think something
much more drastic would have to happen to get Americans off their
couches and away from their TV’s (or computers) in order to fight for
ANYTHING.
2) Mass Production–I was thinking the other day how much we waste in
this country via mass production. I was in a store standing in front of
a wall covered with utterly useless ‘stuff’ and the absurdity of it
struck me so much I had to laugh. I’ve always admired Gandhi’s belief
in doing away with industrializing India in favor of keeping to a much
smaller (but more widely spread among the people) production of
textiles (ie; ‘craftsmen’).

3) Ethics and Holistic thinking–shouldn’t the more prosperous
lend a helping hand to those in less fortunate circumstances, and
shouldn’t this be done worldwide? I know we in America have allowed
ourselves to be lied to regarding what is important and what is not. We
seem to be more valued in this society for what kind of, and how many
material possessions we accumulate than for the intangible/non-material
but longer lasting treasures we might possess.
4) Anything is possible. Why not? If you think for yourself, someone
like John shouldn’t be a threat. Haven’t you had ‘futuristic’ dreams?
Do you suspect that you are living in other timelines or
‘realities’–some very similar, some so different that you don’t even
have a frame of reference in order to understand them with? Do you
remember doing this particular incarnation millions of times before? Is
sanity just too boring for you?=)

Anyways, I only briefly touched on some of the things John has brought
up in his posts (and from the link he posted). Yeah John, I’d like to
discuss what ethics and the human condition would be like in the
future.


Posted by Vanessa Bunn on 01-31-2001 03:41 PM

John Titor,

A serious reply please. When you determine the time to which you want
to travel do you “dial in” the date to which you want to go, can you
“jump” to a new date, say in 1000 year increments. Can you “sample” the
time period by stopping only for a few moments before continueing your
trip and can you take passengers with you????? please answer honestly.


Posted by John Titor on 01-31-2001 07:13 PM

The distortion unit reaches its target destination by using very
sensitive gravity sensors and atomic clocks. The basic unit of
calculation is the second. So yes, in a sense you do “dial in” in a
date and the computer system controls the distortion field. At maximum
power, the unit I have is capable of traveling about 10 years an hour.

Unfortunately, time travel is not an exact science. There is
inherent error and chaos in the computers ability to make accurate
calculations. Based on the current technology of the clocks and
sensors, distortion units are only accurate to about 60 years or so. So
no, in 2036, we are unable to travel back 1000 years due to the error
rate in the system. The divergence between the worldline of origin and
the target worldline would be too great. If one were to try and travel
back that far, history would look nothing like what you would expect.

The unit has mass limits but the 204 is capable of transporting
about three people and equipment. I don’t think you would like 2036
very much.


Posted by Charles Moltrup on 01-31-2001 09:02 PM

Wink

Why would you want a IBM 5100 I can find them at auctions for next to nothing, i think they were the first 286 CPU’s.

Why didn’t you stop in this year first and by one.Well I have a
good question for you in 2036 do you still use toliet paper to wipe
your ass.


Posted by Kevin Spooner on 02-01-2001 04:58 AM

I’m pleased to see certain persons take little offence and in fact
upon re-reading my posts recently I have noticed they don’t read as
intended – I am for the record pleasant but usually quiet company!
Sorry if I upset you (I hope not.)Dear God… please hurry up and make
these computers write not what is typed… but what is meant…. hmm.

I have a natural inquisitive mind and enjoy and technical
challenges. I am also a Spiritualist and to that end enjoy both spirit
and mind… which is why I for one am naturally curious about the
future, time travel, parallel universes, and spiritual matters. I
believe that most people visiting this site do so for a mixture of
reasons – including the DESIRE to know.

You mentioned previously the year 2008 – what’s significant given your
observed 2.5% difference between this time line and your own?

You mentioned a certain model (204) travel unit – what is the source of power and what type of ‘engine’ is used?

If as you claimed, most of the requisite information has been
around since 1970′s – and yet time travel is not public until ? 2045…
why is it that a time traveller can not divulge design information that
would demonstrate its reality. Are there missing common
elements/materials yet to be discovered or engineered?


Posted by John Titor on 02-01-2001 08:36 AM

The 5100 had a very simple and unique feature that IBM did not
account for and decided it was not in their best interest to advertise
(which in hindsight was not very smart). This accidental feature was
thus removed from any future desktop computers. In order to take
advantage of this feature, the 5100 I have now required a couple of
special “tweaks” that had to be done by one of the software engineers
in 1975. Anyone who is familiar with this feature and was told to keep
their mouth shut about it will be able to tell you what it is.

Yes we still have toilet tissue and some people still suffer from extreme anal fixation.

I have noticed and gotten used to the act of verbal conflict as a
cathartic entertainment. I don’t totally understand it but I take no
offense by it either. Perhaps we could just arm wrestle some day and
still be able to have a pleasant conversation.

The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will
realize the world they thought they were living in was over. The civil
war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as
having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse. The
conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012 and end in 2015 with a
very short WWIII.

The source of power for the C204 that allows it to distort and
manipulate gravity comes from two microsingularities that were created,
captured and cleaned at a much larger and “circular” facility. The dual
event horizons of each one and their mass is manipulated by injecting
electrons onto the surface of their respective ergospheres. The
electricity comes from batteries. The breakthrough that will allow for
this technology will occur within a year or so when CERN brings their
larger facility online.

Perhaps it would have been clearer to state that the math has been
around since 1970. I would urge you to examine the properties of Kerr
black holes and Tipler cylinders. An actual working prototype was first
tested in 2034. On my worldline, time travel is not a public recreation
but we are all aware that it exists. You may be disappointed to know
that the ability to manipulate gravity is not the technical challenge
that had to be overcome. Miniaturizing the clocks and sensors, creating
clever ways to vent x-rays and creating a computer system dependable
enough to calculate the changes required to the field were the main
challenges. There are no missing pieces…just missing energy levels and
a few very interesting subatomic particles.


Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-01-2001 10:42 AM

JOHN,

I always thought a good question to ask a time traveler

would be: When is the next triple crown won in horse racing and
what is that horse’s name. Those events are few and far between and
generally remembered. They should stand out in most people’s minds.
This could be a good little test. A winner of some obscure 10k race in
Utah nobody would remember, but Derby winners and especially Triple
Crown winners hold international prominence.


Posted by John Titor on 02-01-2001 11:28 AM

Unfortunatly, winners of historical sports betting events are not
high on the priority list of people in 2036. As a thought experiemnt,
If I did tell you who the winning horse was and you killed it before
the final race, would that make me a liar or would it support my
statement that our worldlines are about 2% different? Do you know who
won that race 30 years ago?


Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-01-2001 11:55 AM

John. a fee questions: what is the political climate like in the U.S
in your current timeline? I mean, what form of government is there?


Posted by Charles Moltrup on 02-01-2001 12:04 PM

Talking

Sorry about the flip question you do know your computers but still
why didn’t you buy a CRAY computer second hand they are much more
reliable.Have a nice flight BACK TO THE FUTURE


Posted by Grant Nelson on 02-01-2001 07:21 PM

John, you are right about the significance of the 5100 so I tend to
believe most of what you say about the near future will also come to
pass in my personal time line.

I propose a little experiment.

I will come look you up if I happen to be in Florida in 2036 and we can talk computers or go fishing.

PS Next time somebody asks which team won a particular game just tell ‘em it was the one that scored the most points.


Posted by John Tooker on 02-02-2001 02:21 AM

Thumbs up

Hey,

You’re a traveller too? Have you ever interacted with any of the
pre 1983 staff, at Montauk? If so, you may have met me. When I was
working there, I was a R&D assistant to Dr. Von Neumann, and was
known as Daniel John Waters, and had a rank of Lt. Col., in the Psi
Corps.
I looked exactly like Jack Parsons, in that incarnation, and was in on
the “rebellion” that Al Bielek, Preston Nichols, et al were on, and was
working with Duncan Cameron on the specific night everything went down.

I discovered this largely via recovered memories, and psychical research, but my website, and story, can be read at http://members.tripod.com/~jrtooker/index-2.html, but I have no hard evidence that this person existed. Which is why I’m trying to contact other travellers.

BTW, this isn’t my original timeline, as I believe that I jumped
timelines, not long after doing some work with Steve Gibbs, on his trip
up to Calgary, Canada.

John


Posted by John Tooker on 02-02-2001 02:24 AM

Thumbs up

Hey,

You’re a traveller too? Have you ever interacted with any of the
pre 1983 staff, at Montauk? If so, you may have met me. When I was
working there, I was a R&D assistant to Dr. Von Neumann, and was
known as Daniel John Waters, and had a rank of Lt. Col., in the Psi
Corps.
I looked exactly like Jack Parsons, in that incarnation, and was in on
the “rebellion” that Al Bielek, Preston Nichols, et al were on, and was
working with Duncan Cameron on the specific night everything went down.

John


Posted by Kevin Spooner on 02-02-2001 04:03 AM

Angry

And I just loved wasting my time looking at how to be informed about cannibis… wanna try again? Perhaps check the link?


Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 06:34 AM

If you could change one thing about your government right now, what would it be?

The United States is still a representative republic in 2036 but it was
touch and go for a while. After the war, the U.S. had divided into 5
general areas based on their economic and defensive strengths. Many
people blamed the government organization for the war and the last
Constitutional Congress was held in 2020 to officially scrap the
Constitution and start over. Fortunately, this exercise in anger
pointed out how hard it was to come up with anything better. It was
decided the document wasn’t at fault. As a result, there have been a
few small changes to the Constitution and the executive branch but you
would easily recognize it. The average citizen is more educated about
the Constitution and aware of the rights and responsibilities it gives
them. Federal power has been decentralized and the focus of daily
politics is in the state senates. Federal law has also been streamlined
but much harder to change or make additions to.

The people who sign my paycheck told me why we needed a 5100 and
sent me off to get one. I was not in a position to make alternate
suggestions. As I recall, isn’t the Cray a rather large system? We need
something portable. The 5100 isn’t required for its reliability, its
needed to translate between APL, UNIX and a few obscure IBM mainframe
languages.

The fishing is great and you’re more than welcome to join us but
the “me” here is only three. I’ll have to tell him your coming.


Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-02-2001 06:49 AM

Cool

Greetings TT Titor,I have not been on this site in a long while,I am
acquantinces with Al Bielek,and I have been in close quarters with
beings not human and not from this place or time.The Humans who talk
with you on this post have not asked you yet how you feel about your
travels?How has it effected you emotionally,Do you age ?Does the hair
grow on your face faster,do your nails grow quicker,Does the air taste
different in different time periods?How is the food in the future,Have
you tried to eat things not found in your time?Do you know me in the
future?I plan on living 120 years,so i am sure going to look for you
later 35 years from now i will be 66,I was born in 1970.I have met a
few other TT people(TimeTravel),I did not ask them about lotteries or
sh1t like that(How petty)I like my time,but i see Traveling into
Another Time and Space as too much for most humans,to think on
different levels,to not lose oneself,to not fall in love or like with
peoples from different times.That must be the hardest,to not be able to
connect with others that would be traumatized by the info given by a TT
person.Wether your from here nor there matters not, thanks for helping
the ones from this Time think of what they are and where they may be
heading.Agentq3 Blessed Be in your travels!


Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-02-2001 07:52 AM

John,

I know sports questions are not good for you, so how about a
couple of other questions? Does GW survive his presidency or is there
an attempt on his life? That should be historically documented. Do the
current inhabitants of this here planet travel to Mars between now and
2036? If that is the case when does that happen? n,


Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 09:42 AM

Question

OK, this John Titor guy obviously is really into science fiction, a scientist, or is actually a TT’er.

Trust me, I would *really* love to believe that you are from the
future. So as Mike suggested, instead of going on about fantastic time
machine components and WW3, why not actually gain some credibility by
correctly telling NEAR future events? Indeed, you are very convincing
with your stories of what you claim will be, but unless you actually
*prove* who you claim to be, quit wasting our time…you may as well be
beating your head against the wall.

Although, if you consistently tell of near-future events, you will
rightly gain all our respect, and we will be hanging off your every
word…

As I said, I want to beleive, but don’t give us the typical “I
don’t need to prove myself, I am not here to do that” Well you should
be!…Why come on here and spend all that time with your stories, if
everyone discounts you as a crackpot. If you want us to actually
*listen* to you, then prove yourself! I know that the *first* thing
that I would do if I claimed to be a time traveller, is *consistently*
tell of *near*-future events…whether it’s politics or
entertainment…just give us *anything* that we can all relate to…

I don’t mean to sound cynical and negative, but if you want us to
beleive you, then just do what I suggest, and quit being so evasive.

Thanks.

[Edited by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 at 10:07 AM]


Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 10:09 AM

Yes, I age and my hair and nails grow at normal rates. Please keep
in mind that gravity distortion does involve some dilation effects but
“jumping” between worldlines are timelike trips, not spacelike trips.
The air is about the same although I do smell and taste industrial
odors here my parents cannot. The food in the future is grown and
raised naturally inside the community structure. This is done primarily
for safety reasons. I am amazed at the risks people here are willing to
take with processed food. All of the food I eat here is grown and
prepared by myself or my family. Unfortunately, I do not know if we are
acquainted on my worldline. Yes, love is a challenge. What’s harder is
knowing you could go back and correct a mistake but at the cost of the
“you” on that worldline you want to live your life over again on.

The questions about the president and space travel are reasonable
but now we come to a conflict between physics and ethics. First, the
ethics:

I have seen a television program about a man who is able to speak with
the dead. When I watch the show, I am more afraid about the possibility
that what he is doing is real not weather or not he is doing it. Since
I will be leaving this worldline in the coming year, I could easily
tell you that the President lives or dies in the next four years. In
fact, I could probably find some way to even charge you for it. When
the day comes for my “prediction” to be realized it will either happen
or not. If it does happen, then your ability to judge your environment
is crippled by your acceptance of me as a “knower of all things” and
gifted with the ability to tell the future. If I am wrong, then
everything I have said that might possibly have made you think about
your world in a different way is suddenly discredited. I do not want
either. Although I do have personal reasons for being here and speaking
with you, the most I could hope for is that you recognize the
possibility of time travel as a reality. You are able to change your
worldine for better or worse just as I am. Although this will make me a
far less interesting time traveler, these are the rules I personally
try to hold to:

1. I will not disclose any information that will cause someone to
personally gain by its knowledge. This means no stock or sports tips.

2. I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow
someone to avoid death by probability. This means no earthquake or bomb
information.

3. I will not disclose any information that may compromise any future
actions by individual people or threaten their family and well-being. I
will not disclose names or events associated with individuals.

Now for the physics: The grandfather paradox is impossible. In
fact, all paradox is impossible. The Everett-Wheeler-Graham or multiple
world theory is correct. All possible quantum states, events,
possibilities and outcomes are real, eventual and occurring. The
chances of everything happening someplace at sometime in the superverse
is 100%. (For all you scientists out there, if Schrodinger’s cat had a
time machine, he might not be in the box at all.)

Therefore, there is a worldline where you are alive and another
worldline where you have gone back in time to kill your relative and
the you on the new worldline won’t be born but “you” the killer is
still running around there. Differences between worldlines are measured
from the perspective of the time traveler in terms of divergence
percentage. The higher the divergence, the more “un-like” your
destination worldline looks like compared to your worldline of origin.

Therefore, any “prediction” I might make has a slight chance of
being incorrect anyway and you now have the ability to act on it based
on what I’ve said. Can you stop the war before it gets here? Sure. Will
you do it? Probably not.

As far as space travel goes… no, we are not on Mars yet but we’re
trying very hard so we can avoid another “Hell’s Kitchen” outcome from
an overpopulated Earth


Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 10:26 AM

John,

As I read more and more of your posts, I am admittedly intrigued, but increasingly annoyed by your insistance.

OK, fine, there are ethical issues, relating to lotto numbers and
gambling, so tell us something like how many will be found dead in the
earthquake in India. Tell us

something that happens in politics on a national level.

Surely you can tell us *something* that has a neutral moral effect on society.

You stated:

“Although I do have personal reasons for being here and speaking
with you, the most I could hope for is that you recognize the
possibility of time travel as a reality”

Tell us something we don’t know!! Look at what message board you
are on!! How redundant can one be? Of course it’s not unreasonable that
most of us on here certainly think that time travel is a
possibility!!..come on…

“2. I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow
someone to avoid death by probability. This means no earthquake or bomb
information”

Why not? What the hell is wrong with you? If I knew someone was
going to be in a situation where they may die, and there was a chance I
could stop it, I have the moral obligation to do something about it.

John, it’s becoming clearer to me that you are simply a fraud…how
sad indeed…you can still save yourself, but you better do it soon.


Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 10:53 AM

Perhaps it would be better if you just considered me a fraud. I
really don’t have a problem with that. If that were the case, could we
then have discussions that you were comfortable with?

((Why not? What the hell is wrong with you? If I knew someone was going
to be in a situation where they may die, and there was a chance I could
stop it, I have the moral obligation to do something about it.))

I can think of a couple of examples.

If the Egyptians knew the Red Sea was going to drown them, do you think they would have pursued Moses?

If you could go back in time to 1941 and tell the radar operators
to take a second look at the radar screen on December 7th, would you?
Before you say yes and accept that parade in your honor down main
street, perhaps you should go forward in time and see if the U.S still
had the motivation to make the A-bomb before Hitler did.


Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-02-2001 10:59 AM

Thank you for your timely reply,and i feel if i am not someone you recognize as a future name known then how about

you let me know if Newport Beach is a bad place to be in case of a
war?Nuked area?Probably,i bet.What area is a good one to be in when the
nukes fall?Have you met any other time travelers besides yourself?Have
you ever had an alien encounter?Because i have had some very
interesting meetings with ET’s.agentq3Thank you again for your time
john titor


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-02-2001 11:00 AM

John -

Can you give us some brief personal stories of your past? For instance,
in relation to history what were some of your growing up sagas?

Can you tell us how China and Africa make their way into the 21st Century?

Jazz -Swing -BeBop -R&B -Rock ‘n Roll -Disco -Rap/HipHop – ….what comes next???

Do Crop Circles play a part in labeling these micromeasurements in time of gravity/energy?


Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 11:09 AM

Question

John,

I am certainly not uncomfortable in thinking that you are a fraud,
although it would bring me (and others) great comfort if you could
prove yourself.

You chose only to reply to my statement of the moral obligation to help
others if you knew they were going to die, (but still not directly, as
I was saying that if you knew someone who was going to be in a
life-threatening situation, especially a family member or friend, it’s
your duty to get them out of it…I was not talking about people who
knew of their imminent deaths…and your 1941 example was not clear…

Yet you didn’t bother to reply to me when I said that you were
being redundant when you say that your wish is to get others to believe
that time travel is a possibility. Again, I will say, that the whole
premise of this board is based on the paranormal, and if anything, most
of us *already* believe that time travel is a possibility, ncluding
myself…so your many posts on this board are on the basis of
redundancy.

Again I will ask: Tell us something that is morally neutral, like a
near-future event in Hollywood or politics…something…come on, I am
giving you chance after chance, I want to beleive…

I am trying to be objective about this, but as you continually
evade and dodge the real questions, you become less and less credible.


Posted by James Boley on 02-02-2001 11:17 AM

John,

I applaud your story. It would make for a great book or Hollywood movie.

You keep mentioning ethics as an excuse not to divulge information of
the near future, however you still freely talk about other items such
as the physics behind your machine or facts about the far future.

I have a hard time believing that time travel, if possible and if
it will be done, would be done in such a lax way. What would happen if
you, while traveling on personel business, died while visiting
yourself. Or what if a scientist reading this thread who in the future
will develop time travel alters his patterns of study and changes the
future, thus changing you thus changing everything?

The mere chance of a severe dominoe effect would, I believe, limit
time travel on a very strict and limited manner, if it is allowed at
all! Why would a group of seemingly inteligent people risk changing
there present on the desire to see themselves in the past?

While entertaining, your story is bogus.


Posted by Randy Empey on 02-02-2001 11:36 AM

Based on the models John professes to beleive and to be the basis on
the tech. that got him here, many of your reasons for disbelief,
particular those just mentioned by James . . . are easily shot down or
at least deflected.

If it is not the truth for John, it is atleast an ingeniously well constructed story.

Lets talk about those things John has been repetitiously asking to
talk about . . . since, John’s being a TT may be his reality, but at
the same time, never be part of one of us critique’s realities.


Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 11:41 AM

I fail to understand why my words generate so much conflict. I think
it’s far better for you to consider what I say as fantasy so there is
no question of credibility. How is my credibility going to affect your
life? I don’t want you to believe me and it doesn’t affect me in the
least if you did.

I don’t know any other way to tell you that I am unaware of what
happens in the next week, especially in Hollywood. Just curious…that’s
a common question, why do you think I would know something about that?

Yes, it’s very possible that what I say would spin your future off
into a different direction. But since what I say is “bogus” that
shouldn’t be a problem.

On a philosophical level, the existence of multiple worlds implies
a moral balance in the superverse. For every worldline you perform a
good action, there is a worldline where you perform a bad action. There
are no good and bad people, just good and bad decisions. We can only be
responsible for what we do as individuals on the worldline we are on
now. So take heart! Somewhere out there is a worldline where I’m
spilling all the beans on Hockey, the stock market and Hollywood and
you’re all off to Vegas and Wall Street making millions of dollars.

I do very much enjoy these conversations and I’m working on the other questions…


Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-02-2001 11:50 AM

john, I really don’t have much complaint about government, Although
not perfect I still beilieve this is the best place to live on the
planet. One thing the governemt needs to do is decriminelize drugs. The
drug war is a useless wat.

So is the civil war started by those anti-gov types?

The next question is religion, if time travel is possible, what
does that do to the reilgious? If I exist on many time lines, which one
is really me? Did God create one “me”, or many “me’s”

What about movies, TV, Sports, Nebraska Cornhusker football, please don;t tell me there us no husker football in 2036.


Posted by James Boley on 02-02-2001 01:05 PM

John,

Rereading my last post, bogus came off a little strong. I did not mean
to conflict with you per se, but tell you I don’t believe your story.

There are a couple of questions I would like answered.

First if you don’t care if we believe you or not, why are you
posting here? What purpose do you have to tell part of your story?

Next, I assume that you would have superiors over seeing your work.
What do they think of your use of the equipment for personel reasons?

Are you afraid of altering your reality in our future or your present in the slightest?

You have mentioned that there is a flux of change for every 60
years. This would suggest to me that you are also traveling across
dimensions or as Star Trek lingo suggests, alternate realities. 8^) If
you are doing this, is there any concern of yours or your comrades that
you are affecting our future? Would that concern you if it did not
affect you?

Is there such a thing, in your reality, as crimes against time? For
example, killing an enemy while he is a child? Or changing the past to
make your present more pleasant (lotteries and gaming franchises have
been mentionned)?

I have said I do not believe your story, but I hope you will still answer my questions.


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-02-2001 03:23 PM

50% of the world lives on $2.00 a day and a good portion of those
not even that (general One-Worlder figure per Jimmy Carter on NPR the
other day). Many of these people think the whole notion of a western
world is a big myth. People living in tribes in parts of Africa, South
America, and Western China would laugh if you were to tell them there
are cities with more than a million people in them – they have
automatic vehicles for transport – some even fly -, they communicate
electronically, wash and cook using machines etc. That’s RIGHT HERE ON
THIS PLANET. Should we go tell them about us? This concept right away
illustrates some illusions about our (Western Worlders’) presence in
the world.

John can you say more regarding this phenomenon and how future
societies (might) handle the new frontiers of technology in our world?

About 4 or 5 years ago Art Bell had on a guest involved in
researching feral humans. He told of a remote Venezuelan tribe that
refused to believe there was a city such as Caracas. HE described how
the senior tribesman tried to relate to the notion that there was such
a type of civilization anywhere near them.

A couple of years before that I had some adventures here in the US. I
began traveling around the country staying at Youth Hostels and working
where I could. I found myself riding freight trains in the Pacific
Northwest and had a last minute rider in my car. He threw his stuff in,
climbed aboard and we had quite a few hours of conversation. He was a
migrant worker who was starting the Apple Orchard season. (A not
uncommon occupation for unskilled labor both foreign and domestic in
the Northwest -though most non-immigrant workers will head out on the
fishing boats for good/hard-earned money).

HE told me about leaving his little village in Oaxaca many years ago.
When he left he was convinced that the jungle surrounding his village
just continued on forever and was really surprised when he found other
landscapes- cities-cultures. HE spent quite a few years listening to
talk radio shows on his little walkmans, working and travelling. I was
really surprised about how much he knew of history, politics, science
and even overseas cultures.

I also have to say that, what I saw of Freight Train Riders, during
this period. represented a fairly evolved subculture, and one not very
involved in what we would consider the NORMAL world.

PBS ran the Jazz series a few weeks ago. When Louis Armstrong finally
made the leap out of New Orleans and Kansas City to travel to New York
to play with “King” Oliver’s band he was FOB (fresh off the boat), in a
way. Dressed funny, and gawking at all the huge buildings of which was
convinced were all Universities – huge Towers of Learning.

My father grew up in a little! town in the hills of western
Pennsylvania. His parents were not the most educated tools in the shed.
He has told me since that often when he was little he wondered whether
all the stories about places like France, Germany etc. were just made
up tales that got passed around on the radio and in print. Of course
that could have been just him <g>.

Just some examples, to me at least, about how little we know of the world … of which we think we know so much.


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-02-2001 04:06 PM

The previous examples were all – of the uneducated “others” in the world, obviously.

WE, of course, are a part of that group which ranks itself at the very pinnacle of evolutionary capabilities.


Posted by Lee Heggy on 02-02-2001 04:29 PM

I am from 4535…no wait, thats my address. Sorry.


Posted by Grant Nelson on 02-02-2001 07:20 PM

James wrote “John, I applaud your story. It would make for a great book or Hollywood movie.”

James. it did ! good prediction from one remote viewer. [ IT, the
movez: was popularized in late 20th century good returns at the box
office and widely circulated on illegal DVD discs . Just before the
lights went out in 2001 it played to appreciative audiences in LA &
NY.

John, I been thinking about the "fission" trip and wanted to tell
you about one of my favorite places. I always try and land on the Shell
Mound just north of Cedar Key every so many seconds.
For some reason it always works. Minimal distortion. Maybe its because
the People have eaten oysters on this spot of 10 x 4 years or maybe
more if one believes the Miami Circle evidence. Why just the other day
some neighbors were burning some ol' logs they got out of the drying up
lake bed and you know what ? The arch*e*olo*gee people landed like
***** on **** and wanted to know what the ++++ they were doing burning
thousand year old native american dug out canoes for to keep warm. in
the oil crisis.

They said a "little child" had told them to do it. Noonans Lake.
General Noonan was only there for ten days during the last Civil War.
The People enjoyed this land for many many many moons. Go figure. 10
days 10,000 years. is this a log factor ?

You could send me the current GPS co ordinates for where I'm talking
about and also set your cessium clock to remind you where to meet up in
2036. Since you been there and done that I will let you pick a day. My
birthday for example.

note that I have email and am a real person, unlike some journalists you may have encountered.

You all come on over and visit while I'm here. grant

PS Maybe the only place [bicycle distance] in 1976 to go for
computer tech was either U.F. Gainesville or up Tallahassee way. You
know, where the high energy magnetics lab is located? In 1976 you would
have maybe dealt with NERD*c or some such entity. Welcome back.

[Edited by Grant Nelson on 02-02-2001 at 07:45 PM]


Posted by Anthony D’Amato on 02-02-2001 07:30 PM

Hi I am from Beliviue, looking for John Titor.


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-03-2001 09:09 AM

John – read your page. Guess you’re saying the troubles we avoid(ed)
during the Y2K scare might be seen as similar to the consequences of
not having had Pearl Harbor saved.

—”This is one example of a theory involving “time shells”
progressing in size and intensity around a gravitational point from all
matter. The more massive the object, the larger and more influential
the time shells around it (like an onion). —

Like an isobaric map of potential time lines and “intentions”.

“Perhaps I should let you all in on a little secret. No one likes you in the future.

LOL

Figures…

I’m not sure I like many of us right now.


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-03-2001 09:15 AM

Exclusive of everyone here, that is. :-)


Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-03-2001 09:29 AM

JOHN,

Two more questions. Is there official disclosure or any sudden
revelations in the area of an ET prescence and how is the world view of
our space in the whole scheme of things. In other words do we by 2036
know for sure we’re not alone? I do remember who won the triple crown
about 30 years ago; Secretariat in 1973, also I think Affirmed did it
in 1978. I don’t think it has been done since. I have no way to prosper
from knowing whether GW makes it through his presidency, I just thought
it would be a good question. Odds are in your favor to say he doesn’t.
I’m just trying to formulate non-invasive ways to see if you are who
you say you are. I have a keen interest in this amazing field and
unfortunately we have seen too many people who, if you are for real,
have made it difficult for you. To tell you the truth I hope you are
for real.


Posted by Kevin Spooner on 02-04-2001 11:37 PM

Question

But then I suppose anyone dealing in transvectoring across multiple
timeflows eventually crosses itself in the fore or aft directions. We
know that time is a maleable product and so too are the options of this
linear flow. So then… if that is the case how could one establish
that *this* timeline is *the* prime and all the others are variants
that may cross on periods like a biorhythym. More I suspect they are
all prime in and of themselves and we simply have attached to this
particular one.

Personally I like the Spiritualist ideal of pre-physical choice – I
chose to be here, I chose this existence, extending that to…I chose
this timeline. Maybe also their perspective of being a part of God
within their own makeup to the extent of being able to choose futures
is also evident – how do you know you have not cognitely chosen your
personal direction a billion times and not even realised at this moment
all the choices you have made along time to get to this point thus far.

Its a bit like realising that what to Spirit are Spiritual powers
is in the weaker sense to the Physical (us) with its Psychic powers…
we only know so much but in the Spiritual worlds we know so much
more… consciousness expansion.

Just my tuppence inbetween our venerable TT’s absence. Cheers all.


Posted by John Michael Davis on 02-05-2001 12:38 AM

Talking

I don’t believe in the possibility of time travel – the transendence
of time/space a total other framed reference but an individual
revelation that really translates everyday realities – then but to
visit the age of the dinasours on some planet – that would to me be
traveling time – veiwing our own development on swell universal
fractals – and we are the et’s – syncronizing galactic calandrical
systems – what of the machine – that we have been born here – living
the first years of our lives among them – room and board – all at once
and eternal.


Posted by Kevin Spooner on 02-05-2001 01:28 AM

Really? If you do not believe in Time travel then I suggest for
discussion that you CHOOSE not to believe. Do you believe in ET’s or
UFO’s – choices. Do you believe that the rest of the world or the known
universe exists – choices. Do you believe you were born of sin -
choices. You choose not to believe – this is not the same as the
ability for it to exist.

Ah then the critic would say… ok TT… demonstrate. Yes I’d love
a demonstration – but more – the specifics on its design and a guide on
correct ethics and use. I have not seen a Time Travel device that I am
aware of – but that does not mean I do not believe – especially in the
potential.

All things can be created, all things can be – the difference is I
chose not to make the choice of yes or no – I believe or I don’t until
it slaps me like a wet fish.

And where is our venerable TT John T? Hope you are well friend -
and yes, I was very serious about ethics and technology. But alas, all
requests have met with zero in my hands to work with. But still – I
choose to be patient.


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-05-2001 07:30 AM

Potential Hazard of being a Time Traveler — Always putting things off until you can “get back” to doing them. LOL


Posted by John Titor on 02-05-2001 11:28 AM

As far as the war goes, my best advice is to find at least 5 people within 100 miles of you that you trust with your life.

No, I haven’t met any other time travelers here and although from my
perspective that’s highly unlikely, it’s not impossible. No, I don’t
have any additional information concerning crop circles, ETs or UFOs. I
find those subjects rather interesting myself and it’s one of the
reasons I was drawn to this web site.

((Can you give us some brief personal stories of your past? For
instance, in relation to history what were some of your growing up
sagas?))

I was born in 1998 so I do share some childhood memories with all
of you. I remember going to Disney World at Christmas and I remember
going to the beach in Daytona.
When the civil “conflict” started and got worse, people generally
decided to either stay in the cities and lose most of their civil
rights under the guise of security or leave the cities for more
isolated and rural areas. Our home was searched once and the neighbor
across the street was arrested for some unknown reason. That convinced
my father to leave the city.

From the age of 8 to 12, we lived away from the cities and spent most
of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict
with the federal police and national guard. By that time, it was pretty
clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division
between the “cities” and the “country” was well defined. My father made
a living by putting together 12-volt electrical systems and sailing
“commodities” up and down the coast of Florida. I spent most of my time
helping him.

Outright open fighting was common by then and I joined a shotgun
infantry unit in 2011. I served with the “Fighting Diamondbacks” for
about 4 years. (Hearing in my right ear isn’t as good as I would like
it). The civil war ended in 2015 when Russia attacked the U.S. cities
(our enemy), China and Europe. As unusual and bad as my childhood might
seem, I wouldn’t trade it for anything.

Africa is not a pleasant place to be in 2036 although I would characterize it as recovering.

The music you enjoy now is quite popular and available it’s just
not produced in anywhere near the same amount. There is a revival of
“local” and classical music. Many people have learned to play their
own. I personally enjoy Big Band, some Classical and interesting
lyrical pieces from the 1970s and 1980s.

((if time travel is possible, what does that do to the reilgious?
If I exist on many time lines, which one is really me? Did God create
one “me”, or many “me’s”))

This is an excellent question that causes a great deal of
controversy. Since every possible outcome, event and possibility is
happening and will happen, then all good and all evil balances out in
the superverse. After the reality of multiple worlds sank into our
collective thought, the one basic change to all religious dogma is the
concept that good and evil does not exist as an organized force in our
lives nor can it be used as a useful way to judge what God may think of
a situation. Good and evil are personal experiences that can only guide
what we do as individuals and how we relate to others. This outlook
also makes it impossible for me to judge any other person or event. We
cannot see the entire universe as God sees it therefore we will never
be Gods or be capable of judging anything outside of ourselves. My
actions can only be judged as good and bad by me and my God.

There is also an area of thought that maintains all of the “yous” out
there will make up the “you” that eventually returns to God. In that
manner, it is frustrating to know that you are capable of and acting on
all of the thoughts and ideas you have regardless of what the “you”
here is doing. How good or evil do you think you can be?

There is even an idea (supported in physics apparently but I have a
hard time with this one) that there is some sort of communication going
on between all of the “yous” that are out there. Some people think that
memories, intuition and conscious are actually attempts by one version
of “you” to talk to another.

Yes, we still have football and you will easily recognize it in 2036.

I am posting here because I enjoy talking with people without
having to hide who I am, it’s safe for me and my family and I can
gather historical information from you and the web.

Yes, I have superiors. However, from their perspective, I will only
have been gone a split second. The only real risk I am taking is
spending too long outside my main line and risking a probability error
(dying, accident, etc.). Based on the physics of gravity displacement,
I can’t leave when I ever I want anyway and I do have some leeway into
how I conduct my mission.

It is impossible for me to change any worldline that I am not on.
Nothing I do here will affect my home. The “60 year flux” is a
limitation of my machine, not of physics. Jet planes can’t fly into
space, my machine is not reliable past a 60 + year destination.

You’ve been to Cedar Key? You must be aware I don’t know any
personal information about you. If I was just going to guess, I would
say it’s important to avoid the rattlesnake or you might be “walking”
back to shore. You may be happy to know that although the bridge is
gone, Cedar Key is still there.

The computer is from 1975, Rochester Mn.

Yes, the Pearl Harbor example relates to Y2K. Have you considered
that I might already have accidentally screwed up your worldline?

((Potential Hazard of being a Time Traveler — Always putting things off until you can “get back” to doing them.))

What’s even worse is having the ability to go back and help the “you” there and you won’t listen to yourself.


Posted by James Boley on 02-05-2001 01:32 PM

Is there any sort of a log in your machine to show where and when you stopped? Will your superiors check that?

Is there crimes against time? Can you get in trouble for altering a time line?

Philisophical question. While in your alleged time travels you meet
a man an convince him to go somewhere with you, causing him not to meet
his future wife. Because of this a certain child is not born, and
denied existance. Are you guilty because of this change? You may have
known this unborn child in the future. It may have even been your
friend.

And if that child would grow up to stop this civil war in the
future, and mankind is better for it (no doubt saving several of your
friends and family members), would you feel guilty?

Maybe this is a better question. Does what happen here affect your future?


Posted by John Titor on 02-05-2001 02:09 PM

Yes, there is a log and my report and debriefing will agree with it. I have no reason to lie about where I am and why I’m here.

There are no crimes against time. However, if I were to go on some
sort of a murder spree and I admitted it when I returned, then I would
be held responsible for the crime of murder.

I am no more able to affect your worldline than you are. Yes, I
could make the changes you suggested but you must remember that there
are an infinite number of worldlines out there where I didn’t and I
don’t. In fact, there’s even a worldline out there where you’re the
time traveler and I’m the one writing the question.

I think the war would be good for you and your society. I don’t want to stop it.

Nothing I do here will affect any other worldline. “My” original
worldline will always be the same and yes I can make changes here that
would make this worldline different from mine but so can you.


Posted by Chris McWhirt on 02-05-2001 05:56 PM

John,

1) What effect will following technologies have

MEMs(microelectromechanicals)

quantum computers

fuel cells

2) WHich GE group builds time machine?


Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 02-05-2001 07:48 PM

… and how many Suckers he reels in!

People, I can’t belive your gullibility.

Please apply some basic Common Sense, Logic

and a detective’s view of “John’s” statements.

Before I waste more of my precious time uncovering this Fakir I
need some help from any of you. I’m looking for at least ONE post where
the poster has gone thru “John’s” statements and found some
contradictions. (there are MANY)

I need to know if any of you are worth saving from this *Prophet*

Who is “John”?

1. A bored college student (or group) on a dare or assignment?

2. A former Y2k doom and gloomer finding a new flock?

3. A Member of Skeptical Enquirer playing an early April Fool’s Joke?

4. A mentally disturbed individual enjoying his 15 minutes of Fame?

5. I real time traveller? (HA! see below)

Some Items:

(In spite of Star Trek storylines)

1. There are NO “alternate worldlines” There are ONLY Possibilities
and Probabilities. One of the Possibilities MAY occur and, one and ONLY
one of the Probabilities WILL occur. There are NO multiple worldlines,
histories, or whatever occuring at this or any time. There are no
proven, half-proven, or .001% proven data for multiple Earths.

There are only Star Trekein blabberings.

Once an event occurs it NEVER changes( except for What special happenings?- you should know this John!)

2. Hey “John”, show me the symbol and formula for the relationship
between Gravity and Magnetism. It should be child’s play for you and a
fundamental part of ANY TT machine. It is Quite simple.

3. I know a certain FACT about time travel, you haven’t mentioned
it and it is an absolutely VITAL part of TT. Tell me what it is. I’ll
give you a hint: It has TWO special requirements!

——————

WAKE UP PEOPLE AND THINK FOR YOURSELF!!!!


Posted by Kathleen Sander on 02-05-2001 11:15 PM

Do you live within the vicinity of your 2-year old self? Have you
seen yourself face to face or do you have any intentions of doing so?


Posted by Kevin Spooner on 02-06-2001 04:05 AM

Angry

Dear Mike Kolesnik,

Either you are a person who knows about time travel in the flesh so to
speak or you contradict yourself by making out hat you do. You have
challenged John Titor into revealing specific answers which you claim
to have current knowledge of. Further you make yourself out to be some
kind of ‘saviour’ wondering if any of us require ‘saving’ so long as we
meet your expectations of us. Even more you state there are
contradictions in John’s writing.

Personally I don’t need saving from you and in fact I am not
following lines of gullability. Rather I too have asked direct
questions and placed challenges to all time travelers.

Further, any segmented regular writing of this nature on any BBS
will create natural discrepencies – even I suspect in your own and mine
to boot. Such is life in the slow lane with us mere mortals.

Please place here you seal of Godliness incarnate for others to
marvel at and rather than attack others (which is not in keeping with
fair play) please feel free to join our quest for knowledge… which I
suspect you are attempting to do in a rather vicious manner.

God bless and may knowledge strike us like a wet fish soon !


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-06-2001 06:05 AM

I’m trying to figure out why I haven’t seen Mike Kolesnik’s name in
any of the esteemed journals that debate Time Travel. You know, the
one’s chaired by graduates of MIT, Princeton, Yale, Stanford…? Surely
having the answers to the nature of *”reality” would be worth pursuing
with others whose careers are based on research. Isn’t this the same
type of reasoning used by debunkers against anything THEY find
unreasonable?

C’mon Mike, unsnit those panties and ask yourself why you care whether this is true or not.

AS far as Mr. Titor is concerned … How do you finance your
excursion? I would venture its not totally on the level with current
financial accounting procedures.

That said, I apologize, though I feel I have to withhold some of my
investigative curiosities, as I have a niece who is exactly your age
and I could sense the possibility of a confluence that at this point
which could precipitate greater than expected divergences.

Around the mid-nineties I came to my conclusion re: the “isobaric”
nature of both gravity and time. Like anything, I suspect the gradients
involved are miniscule by our finite standards, though 10% or 15%
divergence over 60 years sounds about right.

* “There are NO “alternate worldlines” There are ONLY Possibilities
and Probabilities. One of the Possibilities MAY occur and, one and ONLY
one of the Probabilities WILL occur. There are NO multiple worldlines,
histories, or whatever occuring at this or any time. There are no
proven, half-proven, or .001% proven data for multiple Earths.”


Posted by John Titor on 02-06-2001 06:35 AM

[[[ATTENTION! The following is a secret message for all mindless
robot slaves controlled by time travelers. If you are unable to read
this, please disregard it. This is an emergency, can someone do me a
favor and look up everything they can find on Maxwell’s equations,
relativity and the formulas for volts and amps. I left all my physics
books back in the time machine…and remember, just because I control
your mind doesn’t mean I think you’re an idiot. MESSAGE OVER.]]]

Yes, there are significant advances in computer science. It’s
interesting how easy it is to be fixated on the “machine” itself
without any curiosity about many of the support systems. This is not
really big news but if / then is out and if /then /maybe is in.

Yes I am with the “me” on this worldline and he is three now. I
find that fact to be rather hard for people to get along with so I
don’t bring it up directly. This is the second time I have “met
myself”.

The “machine” is owned by the military. I am part of a unit
stationed in Tampa Florida. The real energy is in creating the machine,
not operating it. It’s interesting you should bring up the divergence
percentage. You may find it…entertainingly interesting to know that the
divergence can be more accurate with more sensitive gravity sensors and
clocks. The C206 uses 6 Cesium clocks and an active method of timing
the changes in the atom.


Posted by James Boley on 02-06-2001 06:47 AM

Why does your kind time travel?

You mentioned that in the future, or in your future for the sake of
the arguement, that you still believe in God. How does God play in
these infinite number of ‘time lines’. Are there infinite number of
Gods? One for each timeline?

How does a persons soul play into this? Are you suggesting there are infinite number of my souls around?


Posted by Charlotte Boren on 02-06-2001 07:11 AM

(1) Who wins the Triple Crown for the next 20 years?

(2) Who will be elected president for the next 20 years?

(3) Will there still be Harley-Davidsons around when you are born?

(4) Please list the price of gold for the last 20 of your years and
I can tell you the condition of the stock market in the future.

(5) Will it still be fairly lawful for me to own and use handguns when are beginning your time travel adventures?

(6) Is it possible for you to bump into yourself when you are time
travelling? Saw a Jean Claude Van Dam movie about that once. I think it
was called “Time Cop”. Whatever you do, don’t shake hands with
yourself, if you do meet. You melt.

(7) I go on vacation in May. Can I go with you the next time you
leap? I have an ex-husband I want to punch in the nose when he walks up
to the 1981 me the first time we met and says “Hi.” I’ll get the 1981
me pushed out of the way with a 1981 broom or something. It won’t take
much to convince the 1981 me that this is the 2001 her. I know her past
too well—regrets and happiest moments. (Wonders if Scott Bakula is
just as cute today as he was in “Quantum Leap”.)

[Edited by Charlotte Boren on 02-06-2001 at 07:23 AM]


Posted by John Titor on 02-06-2001 08:33 AM

We time travel to solve problems. A great deal of effort is going into repairing the environment and infrastructure.

I think there is only one God. I also think that our soul may be a
combination of all the collective thoughts and actions of the infinite
“yous”. If that is true, it becomes very difficult to define death
until all worldlines come to an end.

[(1) Who wins the Triple Crown for the next 20 years?]

I don’t know. Even if I did, you could stop the horse(s) anyway and make it untrue.

(2) Who will be elected president for the next 20 years?

Please see number 2.

(3) Will there still be Harley-Davidsons around when you are born?

I was born in 1998.

(4) Please list the price of gold for the last 20 of your years and
I can tell you the condition of the stock market in the future.

I don’t understand the importance of this type of information. Please
tell me your opnion why this is interesting and worth remembering for
30 years.

(5) Will it still be fairly lawful for me to own and use handguns when are beginning your time travel adventures?

I thought owning a handgun was legal in the United States? Yes, being
familiar with firearms (along with the other responsibilities of the
Constitution) becomes an important part of people’s lives in thirty
years.

(6) Is it possible for you to bump into yourself when you are time
travelling? Saw a Jean Claude Van Dam movie about that once. I think it
was called “Time Cop”. Whatever you do, don’t shake hands with
yourself, if you do meet.

Yes that is possible and there are no limitations on interacting
with them. I find it interesting that there is some sort of collective
negativity with the idea of doing that. Could it be that we are not
really that comfortable with ourselves and therefore we cannot imagine
meeting, liking or helping another one of us on another worldline?

(7) I go on vacation in May. Can I go with you on your journys through time? Anybody else want to go along?

I could probably manage three people with me. However, I would have
to dump a great deal of archival material to get you in. I’m not sure
you would like 2036 very much.


Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-06-2001 02:33 PM

John, the life you desrribe in 2036, sounds very much like life my grandparents described in the WW2 era. interesting indeed.

What was the reason for Russia’s involvement in the civil war? Why did they bomb China and Europe?

Did the U.S counter attack with thier own nucler weapns?


Posted by John Lensk on 02-06-2001 03:25 PM

Question

Dear John,

I am very intrigued by your story, but some things dont make very
much sense to me. This IBM 5100 computer you talk of having to go back
in time to get is the first thing that does not make sense to me. What
does the old 5100 computer do that computers of your time isnt able to
do? Im sure the future will have a wide use of emulation technology,
inwhich you could easily emulate this old computer and all of its uses.
What would the original computer do that an emulated version of it not
be able to do?


Posted by Kathleen Sander on 02-07-2001 01:02 AM

Could your parents tell something seemed familiar about you or have
you only seen your 3-year old self? I guess you would have to re-meet
your parents and be a friend of the family. Any changes in how children
are taught? Education still “taught” in a classroom?


Posted by James Boley on 02-08-2001 08:27 AM

I still don’t buy your story. There are inconsistancies that are to large to write off.

Some of the first posts you mentioned that you hoped your story would be at least interesting. It is.


Posted by John Titor on 02-08-2001 09:40 AM

Russia and China have always had a very strange relationship. Even
the news I see now indicates that continued weapons deals to allies,
border clashes and overpopulation will lead to hostilities. The West
will become very unstable which gives China the confidence to “expand”.
I’m assuming you are all aware that China has millions of male soldiers
right now that they know will never be able to find wives. The attack
on Europe is in response to a unified European army that masses and
moves East from Germany. Also, please be aware that from my viewpoint,
Russia attacked my enemy who was in the U.S. cities. Yes, the U.S. did
counter attack.

Based on what I know about the 5100, it has a few very interesting
and worthwhile properties that make it worthwhile for a time traveler
to recover. Also, please keep in mind that civilization is recovering
from a war. Yes, we do have the technology but many of the tools were
lost.

As you are probably aware, UNIX will have a timeout error in 2038
and many of the mainframe systems that ran a large part of the
infrastructure were based on very old IBM computer code. The 5100 has
the ability to easily translate between the old IBM code, APL, BASIC
and (with a few tweaks in 1975) UNIX. This may seem insignificant but
the fact that the 5100 is portable means I can easily take it back to
2036. I do expect they will create some sort of emulation system to use
in multiple locations.

When I arrived, I approached my father and was easily able to prove
to him who I was. I am currently with my parents and the “me” who is
three. They are very aware of what I am doing, why I am here and when I
will be leaving. It may interest you to know that my father still does
not truly believe the machine works even after touching and seeing it.
Yes, education is still taught in a classroom but the entire focus and
system looks nothing like what you have now. Don’t worry, you won’t
miss it.

((I still don’t buy your story. There are inconsistancies that are to large to write off…))

I understand your viewpoint and I respect it. However, I am
confused by a twist in the way the language is used. Another fellow who
posted earlier was a bit upset over what I was saying because he
thought I was soon going to ask for money by selling something. Since I
don’t have anything to sell I am curious why, “I…don’t buy your story”,
is the natural way to say what you did. I am aware that it’s off the
cuff to say but wouldn’t it be better to say I don’t believe your
story? Why is the other way so common?


Posted by James Boley on 02-08-2001 10:01 AM

I don’t believe your story.


Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-08-2001 10:52 AM

John, Does the U.S still have adversaries or “outside” threats 2036? If so, who, what, and why?

Korea United?

How does the U.S media cover the civil war? Is it unibased or does it favor one side?

Are you creating a alternate timeline by just interacting with us?


Posted by Jack Stansbury on 02-08-2001 11:40 AM

Everyone that is reading or posting wants to what the future has in
store for them and their family and friends. John only can tell us that
he is from 2036. Well John give us some good stuff. That’s all we want.
We need meat .

Jack


Posted by Thurstan Davies on 02-08-2001 01:13 PM

Dear John Titor,

Thank-you for your interesting forum entries.

I am currently living and working in the Middle East and I imagine
that I will become one of the 3 Billion that die during WWIII.

I am not asking if I will die or how the Middle East fairs during the conflicts.

I am though interested in the patern of exchange of fire, in that you mentioned US, Russia, China and Europe.

You didn’t mention Austrialia… if this continent survived
unscathed or in fact any other land, would this be a better place, in
your time, to gather the rescoures you require ?

Regards

Thurstan


Posted by John Titor on 02-08-2001 01:18 PM

I would characterize world politics as two boxers who have just gone
multiple rounds and they’re both pretty beat up. I’m sure someone out
there wants to kill us but no one is very organized yet. There is a
great deal of fear over rogue groups coming across un-launched missile
systems, 55 gallon drums of Anthrax or portable nuclear weapons.

((Korea United?))

I guess you could say that. Taiwan, Japan and Korea were all “forcefully annexed” before N Day.

I don’t remember a great deal about media coverage during the civil
conflicts. I would probably characterize it the same way you see
coverage of Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzalez.

From my viewpoint, yes, this is an alternate timeline. From your viewpoint, no.

I have thought again about how to revel information that would make
me more believable but I always come across the following problems:

1.All of you become much less interesting as sheep. I can’t talk to you if you’re not skeptical.

2.Anything I say could be acted on beforehand and changed anyway.

3.All the really interesting information is months or years away and I’d be gone when it happens.

4.I find it morally wrong to assist someone with anything where they might gain and someone else would lose or die.

5.There’s a slim chance your worldline is just different enough my “prediction” won’t happen.

6.I simply don’t know.

Consider that you are a time traveler who goes back in time to the
first week of February 1970 and you are confronted with the same
problem. What do you remember right now about the second week of
February 1970? Naturally, the conflict in Vietnam and the Middle East
come up but as someone has already stated here, “that’s old news”. I
suppose I could predict the failure of Apollo 13 spacecraft but since
time travel is ridiculous, I would be blamed for sabotage. I might even
decide to tell you about an earthquake in Peru but then people that
would have died by chance will now live and vice versa.

All I can think of is to make something up. So here goes…. The
space shuttle mission may or may not have a problem connecting the new
lab to the space station.

How was that?


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-08-2001 01:22 PM

“Buying a Story” means “I don’t buy what you’re selling”. It’s a
reaction to a preoccupation we have with issues of “Trust” …because
we have so many interactions with “others” i.e. people who aren’t a
part of our immediate inner circles. There’s a wariness that “another”
is deceiving us in some manner, either to con us (gain our confidence
for some gain – possibly financial) or work their way into our inner
circles and cause some form of havoc. Therefore their story is up for
judgement as to whether it is worth “banking on”. EG – You may think
you could have some sort or beneficial effect by telling people how
things may turn out in the future? Don’t bank on it.

Art Bell use to have an archive of the night that he had an open line
for Time Travelers. I have to say that much of what I listened to, rang
true with my own “prophetic” thoughts.

So, this enemy that was attacked in the US by Russia, was it Islamic in nature?

What it IT (Ginger)? The buzz is that it revolutionizes
transportation. What change happened in the early ’00s that relates to
this?

I want to get into the Automated Home technologies business. Any suggestions? Please e-mail me :-)


Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-08-2001 01:53 PM

Lightbulb

John,

Again I have to congratulate you on your perceived high level of
intelligence, and I don’t doubt that you may indeed be a physics
professor or just some guy who gets off misleading others.

You stated:

“2.Anything I say could be acted on beforehand and changed anyway.”

Not true at all…not *anything*…just a few days ago there was an
attempt at Bush’s life, surely that’s going to be a significant
historical event. It’s the first attack/assasination attempt on the
president of the new millenium. Hmmm, yeah, you could have warned us
days ago about, and it may have been changed, and not happened…but
that’s very very doubtful. At the time, no one would have taken you
seriously anyway…but if you had of predicted that, and it happened,
then even I would likely believe you now.

Or what about telling us something like a hollywood story of
someone breaking up, or getting married, good luck trying to change
that…or of a company’s profits…SOMETHING…

You are VERY evasive, and you don’t give even a single “iota” of
evidence…nothing…nadda…zero. I remember you saying that your
point of this was to come on and get people to at least accept the
possibility of time travel, well no kidding, great time
traveller…sheesh.. look at what message board you are on!! many
including myself certainly beleive that it’s possible, but all you do
is give fantastic stories and shrug off any attempt at evidence with
your lame excuses. What all of us on here want is the truth, not
science fiction.

“3.All the really interesting information is months or years away and I’d be gone when it happens.”

Hey, we’ll be the judge of that there John. That’s not the point
whether the information is interesting, that’s subjective, the point is
that you should prove yourself. It’s true that you claim to be a
scientist right? Well isn’t one of the aims of scientists is to prove
to *others* of their hypothesis or theory. Even if you’re not one, you
should still make an *attempt* at trying to prove yourself.

“4.I find it morally wrong to assist someone with anything where they might gain and someone else would lose or die.”

OK fine…so why don’t tell us a way in which we can save lives or
help people without harming others…like of car accidents…what plane
trip not to take…etc?! And don’t come back with the cliched, “well it
wouldn’t be morally right to change the future”…you are morally
obligated to help someone if you can stop it!! You can’t argue with
that.

John, why don’t you quit claiming that you’re from the future and actually make any attempt to prove that you are…

This is scary almost, does this guy actually beleive in what he
says? or did Art hire some science fiction just to keep these boards
interesting? There’s obviously some deception going on here…


Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-08-2001 02:03 PM

John. are you saying there isn’t enough skeptism on this board? Fom
what I observe, the skeptics on here out number us “sheep”.

There is no way I can know if you are real time traveler, I’m asking you questions because I’m interested in your answers.

My rational, logical mind says you are nothing but a bored cyber
geek with a lot of “time” (no pun intended) on your hands, however,
part of me also wants to believe that time travel is (or will be) a
realtiy as it has always been a facinastion of mine.

I know there is much more to the Universe that I can possibly
understand, therefore, my mind always will be open to new possiblities.


Posted by Louis D’Avenio on 02-08-2001 02:25 PM

Thumbs down

John,When does your creative writing course end?????????


Posted by Jack Stansbury on 02-08-2001 02:47 PM

Mr. John the time merchant is he selling truth or lies??

The members of this BBS are people that want to believe, We aren’t
stupid. John give us the respect that we have given to you. Please tell
the truth. However if it is true you are just a geek tell the members
so. The truth will set you free !!!!!!!!!


Posted by D’Wayne Bolton on 02-08-2001 02:50 PM

As the 38? year old that you are today, do you remember yourself
showing up and visiting yourself as a three year old? Are your parents
still living in 2036? Have they ever mentioned your having time
traveled back to see them in 2001?


Posted by Jason Plett on 02-08-2001 05:24 PM

Question

Mr. Titor, I find this fascinating. Perhaps, if you do not mind, I
would enjoy a ride in your time device. I am sure you wouldn’t mind me
taking a spin into the future a few years. If you are ever in the
Denver area let me know I would like to interview you and take a ride
in your machine.


Posted by Robert A. Cook on 02-08-2001 05:42 PM

Yep, Jason hit the nail right on the head, didn’t he?

I too would like to take a ride in the rumble seat of your time machine.

I would like to visit the late ‘fifties and early ‘sixties. I’d like to
have coffee with my father and my uncle, with spray-painted gold lamps
overhead, encrusted with plastic jewels.

I’d like to watch them smoke their pipes and cigarettes unmolested, and discuss the simple issues of their time.

Sadly, I believe time travel is bull***t.

I wish it were otherwise.


Posted by John Lensk on 02-08-2001 06:45 PM

Question

John is there anything you can let us know about the future? I know
you are doing the whole “not gonna tell any real information due to
money being made off betting on the information you tell us”. But can
you just name some people who will be major tv stars or movie stars, or
future major politicians or major companies? Or even other major
technologies besides the obvious that we arent aware of?


Posted by John Titor on 02-08-2001 06:59 PM

This post addresses what I have seen before the last three. I enjoy the conversation and I will respond.

The “pattern” of exchange in the war will not be a surprise. Many
people will perish as a result of starvation and disease. I would also
submit that you already know if you’re safe or not. The trick is to not
turn off your fear when you’ll need it the most.

Australia is sort of interesting in what is unknown. After the war,
they were not very cooperative or friendly (can’t blame them really).
It is known they did repulse a Chinese invasion and most of their
cities were hit. They have a trading relationship with the U.S. but I
would characterize them as reclusive and ticked off.

When people use phrases like “See what I mean”, “You’re not hearing
what I’m saying” or “Something smells fishy”, they are indicating the
primary sense they use to process information about a situation. I find
it interesting that my credibility and the phrases that describe it
hinge on economic terms and whether or not I have something to sell. I
don’t. I also don’t know how to clarify my position any better so I
would suggest that if what I say angers you, it might be best to just
consider it fiction. Soon you’ll get bored and I will leave in a few
months. Either way, it won’t be an issue.

The “enemy” that was attacked by Russia in the U.S. was the forces of the government you live under right now.

((…or just some guy who gets off misleading others.))

I do not seek followers to mislead. I seek safety, animosity and good conversation.

(2). To me it would seem obvious that we both have a very different
perspective on what’s important right now in 2001. I would think that’s
what makes our interaction interesting. Would I be anymore believable
if I told you I had just stopped a horrible event and you won’t hear
about it because it didn’t happen? Again, this is the second time it
has come up and I am very curious. Why would you expect a time traveler
to know or care about what happens in Hollywood or some individual
companies profits? You seem to think I have tomorrow’s paper in front
of me. Is that what time travel means to you?

(3) I never said I was a scientist. If this is about economics
somehow and you hope to “buy” my story, then what do I gain by
“selling” it?

(5) You already know that cars are dangerous and planes crash. I’m very
confident you are capable of killing yourselves without my
intervention. Actually, my moral obligation has nothing to do with you,
it’s between me and God.

Deception? Exactly what standard do you use to measure the truth
around you? I have seen other threads with amazing and potentially real
experiences on them. Why am I more threatening?

I have no memory of meeting an older me as a three year old. The events
between worldlines are isolated and nothing I do here will affect my
worldline. Yes, my parents are alive in 2036 but they have no
experience with a time traveling “me” in their 2001 either.


Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-08-2001 09:39 PM

Cool

Hi John:

I’ve read all the postings here and I sense that what we have here
is a failure to communicate. It’s been my experience that the majority
of posters on this board are genuinely open minded, and ready to
believe. Actually I’m intrigued by the escalating level of frustration
being experienced here, and wonder where it’s going.

In my opinion you have sparked a good discussion here. If you are
from the future, then we all have something to learn from you. If you
are not, then it’s a good game of cat and mouse, and since audience
participation is not mandatory, I really have no reason to be upset
with you. For me the challenge here is two-fold.

1. To try and somehow get you to validate yourself without violating your ethics.

2. To try to get you to trip yourself up, and prove yourself a hoax.

Either way in the end we all get what we wanted.

Rather than degenerating into a “let’s get John mob” I propose we try
to devise creative lines of questioning to get to the bottom of the
“John Titor” story.

I don’t believe animosity is a requirement for a satisfying
excercise in thinking. We do need to level the playing field so it
would be helpful if you would agree to a few “rules of sportsmanship”
(pardon the P.I. sexist reference).

You have more than once noted your disdain for our colloquialisms
and cultural inclinations. This is inherently unfair, and you should
give it some thought. You being the “TT”, have an unfair advantage
here. We do live in an economy based society and it’s natural for us to
use terms like, “Im sold”. You used the term “off the cuff” in your
comments about “buying in”, does this mean in the future “cuffs” have
some cultural significance? or is it simply a familiar concept?
….food for thought.

I of course only speak for myself, so here are my questions.

1. Is John Titor your real name? (just kidding)

2. What is the name of your locality/State/Country?

3. Are you a free man?

4. Have civil liberties become more significant?

5. Do you live in a racist society?

6. What is your form of government?

7. Would you be considered a member of the Patriot movement today?

8. In your time, have people developed their spirituality?

9. Do you know what happens when you die in your time?

10. If any what is the predominant religion?

11. Did Jesus come back?

12. Did we send manned missions to Mars?

13. What did we find on Mars?

14. Did we colonize the Moon?

15. Are we currently being bombarded by mind control devices?

16. Is Psionics a part of your every day life?

17. Is Europe made up of feudal states?

18. Did the N.W.O turn out to be real? or just vapor?

19. Do you have teleportation for the average citizen?

20. Was AIDS created by the government?

21. Are there gays in the military?

22. Are there gay people in your time?

23. What is your race?

24. Is there a Movie industry?

25. Is VR legal?

26. What is the average lifespan?

27. Why are you still using paper money?

28. As far as you know who is the most significant figure of the 21st century.

29. Do you use Tesla technology?

30. Given the differentials values you quoted, why can’t your
technology compensate by offsetting the target coordinates so the error
puts you in the correct “world time”?

31. Do you have the death penalty?

32. What is the most common crime commited?

33. Is race mixing allowed?

34. Is cloning common practice?

35. What is the racial make up of the continental U.S.

36. Is there segregation?

37. What is your education system like?

38. What is the woman’s role in your time?

39. Are there equal rights?

40. What sort of birth control do you practice?

41. Are there same sex marriages?

42. What happened to South America?

43. Are there recreational drugs?

44. Do you remember the Beatles?

45. What is the name of the Pope? (name changes)

If you answer these questions you will not violate any of your rules except for question #1, so I’ll retract that one.

That’s my 2 cents

PS: If you need a real web site I can give you one, all to
yourself, for as long as you stay in our time line. E-mail me if you
want it.


Posted by Charles Moltrup on 02-08-2001 11:30 PM

How close does asteroid 2000SG344 come to earth in the year 2030 I
will be 78 years old by then and want to find a big rock to hide under.
PS my time machine works all the time i call it the human mind it takes
me to any time line I want and it runs on Imagination. see ya around


Posted by Thurstan Davies on 02-09-2001 01:44 AM

Dear John Titor,

Thnak-you for your words :

“I would also submit that you already know if you’re safe or not. The
trick is to not turn off your fear when you’ll need it the most.”

After some pondering over your kind reply, I did smile at your words
and I did need to hear them, how ever many times I do hear them from
one source or another…

May I ask one question, when you saw my name “Thurstan” did you recognise it, I won’t ask why or how, or where, just if.

Once again Thank-you, I hope your project suceeds before ’38.

Best Regards

Thurstan


Posted by D’Wayne Bolton on 02-09-2001 06:32 AM

Many of the above questions are answered in preceeding posts.

If John is from the future, let’s keep his interest and not bore
him with the same questions over and over and over and over again.

However, some of the questions are new and I too would like to hear the answers.


Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-09-2001 10:45 AM

John,

Unless you’ve been here for the last 10 years or so, how would know how we have seen the media coverage of Waco(94?),

Ruby Ridge(93?), Elian?


Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-09-2001 11:11 AM

John,

I must say that I am impressed as to how calm you remain, then again, that only helps to make you even more believable.

When I was referring to plane crashes, I meant you should be able
to tell us of near-future air disasters and their flight numbers, so we
can warn anyone that we may know, thus saving their lives. What is so
unreasonable about that?

Anyway, I am not totally clear on your point, of being here as
your main one was already shown to be redundant (getting us to at least
accept the possibility of TT), so what it’s going to be now?


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-09-2001 12:33 PM

I would say if this is all legit – and I’m leaning that way as I
would rather it be, and I have nothing at stake – that the whole issue
is very much about divergence. Onb certain levels divergences matter
very little. For instance, did it really matter whether you got gas,
last Thurs., at an AMPM (amp ‘em) or a Chevromn Quik Mart? If a
timeline was altered and on a new line you found yourself gassing up at
a Texaco Food Mart AFTER you went to the Library, as opposed the AM/PM
(amp ‘em) before you went to the school board meeting – would it
matter? Suppose you went back in time and suggested to your bonehead
cousin that he should get a job at the new service center down the
street. And he met some girl there, they got married and now you get to
visit them once every year in LAs Vegas? Suppose you suggested he try
telemarketing at 1 800 RIGHT-IN-THE MIDDLE-OF-DINNER and he lasted 3.5
weeks and then found a job in Vegas dealing cards and then met some
girl there. I guess my point is that different divergences have
different “loads” of importance.

Enough … though true freedom means looking at these consequences on a
more continual basis than one would have if one were used to a more
routinized existence. I find this whole topic of divergence to be the
more intriguing topic (though I would like to know what Chinese pop
culture will look like.


Posted by John Titor on 02-09-2001 02:02 PM

For all of you interested in coming back with me to 2036, perhaps we
should discuss the trip. Please be aware, the displacement unit moves
through time, not space. First, we will be driving the current vehicle
(Chevy truck) with the displacement unit in it to Tampa Florida. From
there, we will go back to my arrival date on this worldline. Then we
will have to drive to Minnesota, sell the current vehicle and get
another one that would have been around in 1975. We will then move the
displacement unit (500 lbs or so) into the new vehicle and go back to
1975. Once in 1975, we’ll drive back to Tampa and make the final hop to
2036. If you’d like to stay in 1975, you’re welcome to do that. It can
also get quite hot and stuffy during the trip and you’ll be subjected
to a 1.5 to 2 G force the entire time. You’ll also need some sort of a
re-breather system or oxygen supply.

I have found that many misunderstandings and arguments are based on
the differences in understanding over a single word. Two different
cultures can have a drastic impact on the meaning of words like
“proof”, “trust” and “credibility”. My frustration is in understanding
the use of the words. I am trying to follow the logic of all of the
comments.

After reading the questions, I want to paint a picture that may help
with the general theme of our collective experience in 2036. The war
had very profound affects on people and how they relate to each other.
As individuals, almost everyone in 2036 is very familiar with death. We
all have stories of loved ones that have died from disease, war or acts
of inhumanity. Most of us have even taken part in dishing the same
thing out to the other side. As a result, we have become far more
compassionate to the ones we love but mush less forgiving to those who
don’t pull their weight. We are more accepting of other’s differences
in our community because we depend on them to survive. We are also more
conservative with our resources and closer to God because for a period,
life on Earth was Hell.

The other major difference is in the concept of good and evil. With
multiple worlds come multiple decisions and outcomes. For every good
act, there is an equal and possible bad act on another worldline. Taken
to the extreme, this must mean that in God’s eyes, there is no total
good and total bad in the superverse. It balances itself out to
infinity. I believe we are judged on the decisions we make as
individuals and the good/evil I see on my worldline is an illusion that
has no worth to God. My reaction to it is what’s important to God.
Although this may seem rather heartless, it does allow me to see past
the evil that people do and acknowledge the core of potential goodness
inside them.

2. I am currently based in Tamp Florida in Hillsborough County.

3. Yes I am free but I have obligations as a citizen. Everyone is
required to have basic military training and provide a period of time
for community service. It is very much like a type of mandatory
National Guard service + Peace Corps.

4. Yes civil liberties are more important. You will feel the same after having your house searched a couple of times.

5. We do not live in a racist society but definitely a prejudice one. Everyone carries their own water.

6. Our government looks very much like yours. It is a representative republic.

7. My definition of a patriot is anyone who defends the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

8. Religion has become far less centralized. Extremes tend to bring
you closer to God so I would characterize religion and spirituality as
a much more of a personal institution.

9. I do not know what happens when we die. However, I don’t think
it will be easy. There may be some very difficult decisions we have to
make when we die that we are totally unprepared for.

10. It’s difficult to define the most predominant religion.
Christianity has fragmented into many groups and people with different
beliefs speak mush more openly with others who have different outlooks
and opinions. I would imagine there are large groups of Hindus,
Buddhists and Muslims but I have not come across them personally.

11. No, Jesus did not come back. At least not that I’m aware of. If
or when Jesus returns, do you think he’ll be a lamb or a lion?

12. No mission to Mars but we are working on it. There is a group
working on the idea of gravity displacement to get into space but the
calculations and error rate are very large obstacles to overcome.

13. We don’t know what’s on Mars yet.

14. We’re not on the moon yet either. A great deal of technical effort is going into cleaning the planet up.

15. I’m not aware of any “mind control” devices being used on you now.
However, there are a great many “non lethal” weapon systems in
development that turn out to be quite lethal. Sometimes I watch your
television programs that show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons.
They usually start out with, “In the future, the army and police will
fight its enemies with new weapons systems…” When they use the word
“enemy”, they’re talking about YOU! You don’t really think the Marines
are going to jump out of helicopters overseas with sticky goop, pepper
spray and seizure lights, do you?

16. I’m not familiar with the term Psionics. I’ll look it up and see if we just have another word for it.

17. Yes, Europe is a mess.

18. Yes, I think the New World Order idea tried to establish
itself. I would consider them the combination of the old U.S. federal
system, Europe, Canada and Australia.

19. When you say “teleportation”, I assume you mean public transportation. Yes, we have a basic high-speed system.

20. I don’t know if the government created AIDS. I tend to think
yes but controlling it escaped them as it mutated. You can’t have
conspiracy to limit the population with a disease without the cure.

21. Yes, homosexuals are in the army. You tend to look past the
individual differences of people when thier job is to protect your
life.

22. Yes, there are “gay” people in 2036.

23. I am a white male.

24. Yes, there is an entertainment industry. Again, it is very
decentralized. The technology to express yourself with video is so
readily available that many people do it all by themselves or in small
groups. Much of the distribution is over the web. I would compare it
theater here.

25. I don’t know what you mean by VR?

26. The average lifespan is about 60 but I expect that will imporve as we get things cleaned up.

27. Yes, paper money is still widely used.

28. The 21st century has awhile to go but the most significant person
in my opinion is the farmer-general who led us to victory.

29. Even for you Tesla technology can be found in appliances, motors
and generators. I would have to say we have come a long way on Tesla’s
foundation but we don’t have electricity rays that cause earthquakes.

30. Getting back to my exact worldline of origin is impossible but
it depends on how you define the correct worldline. I can get close
enough so neither I nor anyone there would know the difference. It
relates to the classic example of cutting a distance in half to reach
it. You can always get closer but never there. It also has a lot do
with neighboring universes on Penrose diagrams but that requires more
math.

31. Yes, we have the death penalty. We also have public punishment.

32. The most common crime is theft.

33. I don’t understand what you mean by “race mixing”.

34. Cloning is not common. However, altering the sperm and egg cell
are common. It is very difficult to have children in 2036 for
environmental reasons.

35. It’s hard to say what the exact racial make up of the U.S. is.
I would say it’s probably the same minus 130 million people or so.

36. No, there is no segregation.

37. The education system is very similar to yours but the
organization and implementation is controlled on a community and county
level. Various communities also specialize in certain disciplines.

38, 39. My comments on equal rights and “women’s roles” could be
quite lengthy and controversial. I wish to discuss that separately.
However, women do fight in the military just as the men do but their
role on the community level is very conservative.

40. Having children is such a serious issue in 2036 that birth
control is almost unheard of. It is very difficult and precious to have
and raise children. Again, this is an issue I will be happy to go into
later.

41. Yes, there are same sex marriages but it’s not very common.
Again, people have lived through so much hardship that if what someone
else is doing does not affect them or harm the community, it’s not a
big issue.

42. South America went relatively unharmed. However, there is still a great deal of internal conflict with conventional arms.

43. Yes, people use drugs that alter consciousness but they are not very common.

44. Yes, I know who the Beatles are. Old music and other entertainment is available on the web.

45. There is another Pope but I do not know his name.

I do remember the name Thurstan. Isn’t that a character on a television program about people stranded on a desert island?

I do believe that “you’re” UNIX will also have a problem in 2038. I
don’t think that’s a secret but maybe someone should put a 5100 aside
for thirty years or so.

John


Posted by Brett Fredrico on 02-09-2001 07:04 PM

Lightbulb

One Question for the time traveler….

You mention a full scale nuclear weapons deployment as a result of
WWIII. You also mention that electronics, computers, and even the
Internet still functioning some time after that. Can you explain how
these devices (and more importantly the facilities that made them)
withstood the EMP airbursts associated with any full scale nuclear war?
Every electronic device would be inorperable after such an event and it
would take decades (if even possible) to rebuild the infrastructure to
allow for the building of an electric razor, let alone an Internet.


Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-09-2001 07:16 PM

Thumbs up

John,

First, thanks for the insightful answers. I have to admit that the
overall picture you paint, sounds very real, and sobering. As you
accurately detected my questions were really an excercize in profiling.
You are either from the future as you say, or you are the next Robert
Heinlein.

As for me, in as much as I have been given to understand by your
answers you don’t have the mentality of a hoaxer. Actually you sound
like a 30 something, militia member who has experienced much hardship,
and your calm yet aggressive demeanor indicates you are accustomed to
making difficult decisions. Your “skirting” of the “equality” issue and
your use of the word “prejudiced” is indicative of the kind of hard,
post war climate you claim to be from, and the measures that would be
required for survival. I assume your comment “everyone carries their
own water” was both literal and figurative? and is the equivalent of
“our” “you have to carry your own weight”?

As a programmer, the UNIX issue you refer to is a bit of a problem.
I write code in APL, PLI, Lisp, C, C++, VB, Fortran , Cobol, smalltalk,
Java, Python, and a slew of less known languages. The 2038 “bug” is
about as dangerous as the Y2K bug. I can “with a little tweaking” do
anything with a computer that can be done with a computer. I assume
there are programmers in 2036, that being the case, a “good programmer”
can fix your Y2K38 date inconsistency. As for the undocumented IBM
design modification in the 5100, I know nothing so I can’t comment
there.

The new .net platform from microsoft has the capability to integrate
all the languages you mentioned + all the ones I mentioned. Would it
not be easier to write in the original language instead of having a
machine translation?

Can you tell me how your UNIX differs from ours?

As for proof, I don’t think any is forthcoming that would be “conclusive”.

At this point I have no concrete reason to disbelieve anything you say save for standard skepticism.

I’d like to discuss some current technology with you in private if you have the time. If you can E-mail me I’d appreciate it.

Good luck John, you’re an interesting person, thanks for the conversation.

PS. Thurston Howell is the name of a character on “Gilligand’s Island”. for a definition of psionics you can check http://www.psi-ops.com. If you guys can run windows, I have some software for you that would come in real handy in your time. (really!)


Posted by John Titor on 02-10-2001 09:49 AM

Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian exist in your news archives. Telling you
about impending place crashes or other disasters (provided I could give
you exact dates and times) may save lives at one point but cause
cascading changes that take others at a later point.

I enjoy the posts because it’s very hard to remain safe and have a
conversation. I have often seen the classic question, “why don’t time
travelers revel themselves’? That’s easy, if you believe us, you’ll
drug us into oblivion and put us in a small dark cell while men in
white lab coats take a Phillips head screw driver to the magnetic lock
on the singularity drive housing.

I will examine the web site you mentioned. I believe the 5100 is
unique in its ability to run assembler language on the 360-machine
platform and still be portable. I’m not sure if that fact was ever made
public so it’s the best “proof” I have. I would like to examine the
software you mentioned; perhaps I can further justify my side-trip.

Yes, EMP took out a great number of electronic devices. That’s one
of the reasons why we don’t have reliable technology laying around.
However, in the opening hours of N Day, the Russians did not launch any
high altitude detonations. They knew we would most likely clean up
after them so they wanted everyone outside the cities to be able to
communicate. Most of the warheads that hit the cities came in threes
and exploded close to the ground. The heavy EMP damage was isolated to
those areas.

Actually, you will probably be quite impressed with our internet.
It’s based on a series of independent, self-powered nodes that are
mobile and can be put up anywhere. It looks a great deal like your
current cell phone system.


Posted by Walt Moss on 02-11-2001 10:35 AM

1.What is your opinion of Revelations in the New Testiment,Do you feel it related to the coming War?

2 Are you familiar with the Fatima Prophesies and were these achieved?

3. You mentioned earlier (I don’t know if it were hypothetical)
that you were sent to change something here in 2000 or 2001, were you
succesful? and if you were it has already happened so could you go into
detail as to what you did.

4. Was there an Antichrist, and was he part of the EU.

Thanks for responce


Posted by Brett Fredrico on 02-11-2001 02:53 PM

Question

I don’t know if you have answered this yet, but how did you learn
about Art Bell? Is AM still mostly talk radio in your time? Lastly,
what more do you know about UFOs and those pesky greys?


Posted by Angel Lynnn on 02-12-2001 12:42 AM

Question

John,

I have been reading the posts about you and your travels tonight and am facinated.

Thank you so much for posting here and answering our questions.

I wish you peace and happiness.

I would really like to know if hand made items are popular or liked in
the year 2036. Are people still knitting and crocheting with their
hands?
I am an avid crocheter and I’m very curious about this. I make hats, scarfs, purses, rugs, dish cloths, towels, etc…

Maybe you need a break from the IMPORTANT questions and you could indulge me…………

Thank you, John for being you.

Angel Lynnn


Posted by Kennith Viccars on 02-12-2001 09:20 AM

Hello,

Just read through this thread and found it very interesting.

I just had a couple questions…

I’m from Calgary, Canada. What part will Canada have in the War?
Specifically western Canada, should I get out and move to Fiji ?

Do you think it’s very smart to be talking to people online?

I mean anyone could get your ip, with a few connections find your
address and locate you. I know for a fact that a few “men in black”
read this board. If they thought for a second that you were for real,
they would be on your ass so fast, and your “Time Machine” would be in
the hands of the US military my friend.

I’m about 99.9% skeptical, but I do like the odd sci-fi story, and
enjoy your writing. I don’t pity you for trying to convince the
gullible hordes that flock this board. Everybody needs to feel
“wanted”, and we all like to feel “special”. If this is your way of
getting attention, I have no problem with it, no ones getting hurt.

Thx John.


Posted by Don Hackman on 02-12-2001 09:23 AM

Wink

I have put all my accounts in order and bought rebreathers etc. as instructed and have sent you all our credit cards.

Are you sure the 1/2 life of the radioactive fallout from WWIII is now / then safe in 2038 ? Should I bring tin foil?


Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-12-2001 09:27 AM

Question

please forgive me if you have already responded to a similar
question – but i am a very curious person & can not wait to ask
this..just incase i forget.. my question:

you say that you can not tell us when something of very little
historical importance occurs.. because we may alter/change something
& look to you as a phsycic of some sort. perhaps, you could mention
something that will happen very soon after you’ve just left. no one
will be able to contact you so what could they possibly change and/or
ask you about? as someone has suggested: over time periods certain
types of music run to the forfront of our society. in the early 90′s it
was grunge.. now it seems to be the bubbly pop teen sensations, i.e.
backstreet boys & britney spears.. you couldn’t even answer the
simple question of what will be the next ‘movement’ in music? just
something so simple as that.. couldn’t possibly have some profound
affect on the future? & especially for just the people on this
board..i have my doubts that they’d run out & “do something” about
the fact that acid jazz (for instance) is the next big musical hit..
know what i mean?

more questions: dunno if you’ve been asked this, but what are the areas
least affected by the ww3 bombings ..you will probably not be able to
answer that.. just going to see if you will anyway. another thing i
wanted to mention was that even though you think because of one small
thing you say may affect the future greatly, i assure you that 90% of
the people.. will not take it seriously. so if you said: “the eastern
shore will be most affected.”..i doubt that in 2012 everyone will swarm
to the west. of the large population our world has.. it is very small
in comparison to the population of -this-board-.. & our country is
full of skeptics (which i’m sure you’ve realized).. so even if 100
people said “the eastern shore will not be affected.. a traveler from
the future -said so-!!!”.. maybe 1 or 2 people would actually believe
them. i think the affect you think you’d have..is not as large as it
really would be.

another: have you visited your -past- family? what city were you
born in/grew up in? could you even say that so-and-so.. *an unknown
person in today’s history*..”will be a big star”..etc..?

-blonnie-

just curious


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-12-2001 09:45 AM

I’ve read this entire forum through twice now.

What I find fasinating more than John’s Time Traveling, are the
people who seem to be attacking him. Now, I “believe” that Time Travel
is possible – and I think there is plenty of physics evidence for this.
So – perhaps the word “belief ” is really not the correct word.

I have a couple of questions for John as well, so if you can answer these John, I would appreciate your answers.

1) Once a microsingularity is produced and placed in statis in a
magnetic field, what is the approximate strength of that magnetic
field.

2) How is the magnetic field produced (I mean – what power source holds the field in place)?

3) What would happen to the microsignularity if that source FAILED?
For instance would the microsingularity begin to grow? Or would it
cease to exist?

In relation to my first comments about folks attacking John’s
veracity – I have to say that John’s stories/statements DO hold water.
The folks that chose not to believe him are welcome to do so, but, you
do not have to “save anyone” from themselves or John. I believe most of
us are intelligent enough to determine for ourselves if there is any
kind of fraud. Even if there IS fraud, I personally am impressed with
the background. It is well thought-out and consistent so far.

John has stated several times that what he says will not affect us,
or him, and what we say will not affect him whatsoever. I have to take
that to mean that even if he DOES tell you something here, it will NOT
affect HIS timeline, since there is some deviation from his actual
timeline here. In other words, John is NOT the same John he is visiting
now, as his 3 year old self. His mom and dad are NOT his REAL mom and
dad in his time line. We are NOT the same PEOPLE IN HIS TIME LINE.

Therefore, John (and none of you could do this either) can NOT tell
us anything about our current timeline with any great accuracy that can
be verified.

Think about it.

Rick Donaldson

Colorado Springs


Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-12-2001 09:53 AM

another thing i do not understand.

you said in a previous post:

“I am no more able to affect your worldline than you are. Yes, I
could make the changes you suggested but you must remember that there
are an infinite number of worldlines out there where I didn’t and I
don’t. In fact, there’s even a worldline out there where you’re the
time traveler and I’m the one writing the question.

I think the war would be good for you and your society. I don’t want to stop it.

Nothing I do here will affect any other worldline. “My” original
worldline will always be the same and yes I can make changes here that
would make this worldline different from mine but so can you.”

from this i suppose that you mean, that yes, you could &
possibly have affected our ‘worldline’.. & our worldline is
different from -your- worldline.. if this is true then why do you keep
telling us about the ww3..etc.. how do you know that will even -happen-
in our worldline? it may have already been nipped in the bud for all
you know..because ours is a different -worldline- from yours!

another thing i wanted to respond to:

“(2). To me it would seem obvious that we both have a very
different perspective on what’s important right now in 2001. I would
think that’s what makes our interaction interesting. Would I be anymore
believable if I told you I had just stopped a horrible event and you
won’t hear about it because it didn’t happen? Again, this is the second
time it has come up and I am very curious. Why would you expect a time
traveler to know or care about what happens in Hollywood or some
individual companies profits? You seem to think I have tomorrow’s paper
in front of me. Is that what time travel means to you? “

i understand what you’re saying .. why would you care what happens
in hollywood..etc.. or individual companies profits.. what you’re
basically saying is you just don’t remember (or maybe you do..but you
won’t tell us?).. why would you care? if you asked anyone today who,
for instance: marilyn monroe is.. we would all know.. or who bill gates
was & what he did for computers – we would all know. you’re
insinuating that you don’t know &/or don’t care about any of these
things in the future. perhaps so..but how could you POSSIBLY not know
who the next big inventor is.. or what the invention is. you claim that
if you told us.. we could alter it & keep it from happening. how
many people do you think will be SO concerned that a -mega-super-razor-
that keeps all facial hair gone for 20 days (for example).. that they
want to go & stop the inventor from inventing it? & also you
said, you’d be gone by the time the ‘good stuff’ happens.. ok.. isn’t
that -further- better for your point..in that you say it’s better to
have us be skeptics rather than sheep? well if you told us “in 2 years,
there will be an earthquake in israel”.. & you were gone by
then..all we could do is say, “wow, that guy on the board in 2001 said
this would happen! he was real!”.. we couldn’t -do- anything.. we
couldn’t STOP the eartquake & i doubt anyone would go there &
tell everyone to evacuate (and even if they did, no one would!).. it
would just prove that you were -true- & existed. i can’t fathom why
you can not speak of something such as that..


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-12-2001 11:14 AM

John – Another question suddenly came to mind. I asked before about
the microsingularities. Are they used to create the “rotating tipler
cylinder” somehow through the axis of your time machine? All matter
within a certain distance is then pushed (somehow) along a
time-dilation type trip in time, forward or backward.

Is this about right? I’m betting that (assuming this is real) the
microsingularities are used to create the infinite length aspect of the
tipler cylinder which appears to be required for this time function
change to occur. The aspect of rotating microsingularities (MS from now
on) means that some sort of gravational field between the MS is also
rotating, so as to create this illusion of a gravitational cylinder
AROUND WHICH TIME IS DISTORTED GREATLY!!

Hmmmm… I’m about to start believing this guy, John the Time Traveler is real.

John, one last question, what sort of actual educational background
(in your time) do you have? That is.. university, college, high school,
etc? Thanks

Rick Donaldson

Colorado Springs


Posted by Benedict Gumby on 02-12-2001 12:06 PM

Question

I just have this to ask you.

Do you recognize the name Benedict?

I want to know because I fully intend to be a prominent figure within the next 20 years.


Posted by Kane Greene on 02-12-2001 12:14 PM

Smile

I have read these threads and that web site you directed us all too
on the first page. When first approaching this thread, I was expecting
something to be comical, just some guy who would admit a page later
that it was a joke. He would do that because he would not know how to
answer questions or slip up, something in which you haven’t done! I am
extremely surprised! With each reply you have, the more and more I
think you could be possibly telling the truth.

Some things in John’s defense to think of before being so harsh.
Say you were back in 1900, and you mentioned something about us going
to the moon. What do you think the response would have been? You
probably would have been thought crazy, or a drunk! That is kinda in
relation to what is going on now, we are not familiar or have no
knowledge of Time Travel actually happening before this.

Another thing about people saying how John doesn’t know any World
Events that are about to happen in the next few months. But you have to
remember, that the last time John was in our time, assuming he hasn’t
traveled back was when he was 3 years old! How many of you can honestly
say you remember at-the-time important issues that happened when you
were 3! I know I can’t!

John, now, I would like to ask you a few things I am curious about!
This is something I have found to be very interesting and could
possibly believe you!

(1)Have you ever went on any other time traveling missions? If so, what were they?

(2)I believe you said you had pictures of your time machine, could you post a link to uploaded images?

(3)If you have any pictures of the IBM computer you were susposed to get, could you post a link to them also?

(4)I looked up the name ‘Titor’ in the state of Flordia on
555-1212.com and couldn’t find ANY Titors, is your family not listed in
the phone book?

(5)Can I contact you through any other means of online
communications? Like AOL Instant Messagner? ICQ? MSN? Something so I
can have a conversation with you! But if you don’t have those, could
you possibly consider downloading one of them, http://www.AIM.com, http://www.ICQ.com. And then emailing me your user name abcs_123s@hotmail.com , thanks!

(6)What is the specific Date that the Nuclear war starts? If you can’t
remember the exact date, could you put the month at least? An estimate!

(7)What is the speed of the average computer in the future? I am
assuming it is in ghZ, if it is higher, could you post the name of that
hZ measurement and its relation to the ghZ?

(8)Can you do your own Time Traveling ventures whenever you want?
If so, how much does it cost? Or can you make ‘pit stops’ along the way
back to 2036?

(9)Have you ever went past your future, like to 2050 or somewhere around there? If so, what is the world like then?

Also, someone said why does he think that there will be a WW3 in
our world since it isn’t the same as his. Well, John said that there is
a 2.5% difference from our world and his, that isn’t that much of a
difference, so a WW3 is very likely to happen if what he says is true
and there is only that much of a difference!


Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-12-2001 12:31 PM

Kane Greene wrote:

“Another thing about people saying how John doesn’t know any World
Events that are about to happen in the next few months. But you have to
remember, that the last time John was in our time, assuming he hasn’t
traveled back was when he was 3 years old! How many of you can honestly
say you remember at-the-time important issues that happened when you
were 3! I know I can’t!”

3 years old.. yes. i was 3 years old when reagan was president
& i probably had no idea he even existed at the time..yet, i know
now that he existed. john is not a three year old now – he’s 38 he says
& unless the schools of the future teach no history then why
wouldn’t he know these things? & as they are big events in history
i can understand (possibly) why he wouldn’t want to post them… but it
has nothing to do with his age… tell me there weren’t things that
happened or people that existed when you were three.. that you didn’t
know of then but know of now? the beatles for instance were alive &
famous before i was ever born, yet i know they existed in the
60′s/70′s. i was born in 81 & challenger blew up soon thereafter
(in 83 i think it was???) i never saw it on television happening.. but
i know it happened.

-

what about marilyn monroe? i wasn’t even born yet when she was
alive – but i know she existed? & telling us something such as her
existance would not greatly affect the outcome of our entire world.. so
why not tell us? i can possibly understand how telling us that there
will be a horrible bombing in canada..would affect the future ..
someone on here may be from canada & keep their family away from
the site of the bombing .. thus, changing future.. but telling us
something of little importance will NOT change the future! it will only
prove he is who/what he says he is.

-blonnie-


Posted by Kane Greene on 02-12-2001 12:45 PM

Red face

By Blonnie:

“3 years old.. yes. i was 3 years old when reagan was president
& i probably had no idea he even existed at the time..yet, i know
now that he existed. john is not a three year old now – he’s 38 he says
& unless the schools of the future teach no history then why
wouldn’t he know these things? & as they are big events in history
i can understand (possibly) why he wouldn’t want to post them… but it
has nothing to do with his age… tell me there weren’t things that
happened or people that existed when you were three.. that you didn’t
know of then but know of now? the beatles for instance were alive &
famous before i was ever born, yet i know they existed in the
60′s/70′s. i was born in 81 & challenger blew up soon thereafter
(in 83 i think it was???) i never saw it on television happening.. but
i know it happened.
-

what about marilyn monroe? i wasn’t even born yet when she was alive -
but i know she existed? & telling us something such as her
existance would not greatly affect the outcome of our entire world.. so
why not tell us? i can possibly understand how telling us that there
will be a horrible bombing in canada..would affect the future ..
someone on here may be from canada & keep their family away from
the site of the bombing .. thus, changing future.. but telling us
something of little importance will NOT change the future! it will only
prove he is who/what he says he is. “

I was alive when Desert Storm took place, do I know the month it
happened? No.. I wouldn’t expect John to either. Plus, History books
from that time would probably contain things about the war from 2005,
possibly things leading up to the war. Not inventions like ‘Ginger’ and
pop artists!

History books might mention some things, but they just give a year
most of the time if it is not of grave importance, they more than less
are going to just give the year and say what it did.

Blah! Why can’t vBulletin have the quote feature like the better, UBB? Blah!


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-12-2001 01:15 PM

I was born in 1957. I DO remember the 1962 crisis, at least in terms
of the adults being scared. I would have been 5 years old. I distinctly
remember John Glenn going up and splashing down, and I remember hearing
about Alan Sheppard (first man in space for you younguns hehe).

I indeed remember watching John Glenn though. I remember Walter
Cronkites voice on television. I can tell you what my house looked like
back then, the size of the TV and that it was black and white. I
remember playing with magnets back then, and being absolutely
fascinated with the magic of magnetic fields even then (which
eventually drove me into the sciences, chemistry, physics and finally
electronics engineering).

I remember a TV show called “Time Tunnel” in the late 60′s. Anyone else?

Anyway, the basic point is, I do have very vivid memories of things
from when I was a child, of no more than 3-4. I have very, very clear
memories of things when I was 3 and even my mom when she was alive was
amazed at the things I could recall from such a young age. Well… I
don’t remember much about politics though. I know that Eisenhower was
the Prez when I was born, but… I don’t remember ANYTHING about him,
but I DO remember all KINDS of things about Kennedy.

So… what I am getting at, John would not necessarily (nor would
anyone else) remember things of politics in their baby years. Some of
us do, many of us do not.

I can tell you something very important to me though… if *I*
stepped into a time machine to go back to… say 1961 or 1962 I
ABSOULTELY would have a complete knowledge of the era that I was
returning to, in my mind. I’d have studied it very carefully, and I
would ensure I had clothing of that era (up to and including the geeky
classes I used to wear as a kid) to “fit in”. 1962 was a year of the
almost end of the human race as we know it now, and I CERTAINLY would
not want to step into a time where I could have been noticed as being
out of place and out of time. Curiousity about me might cause my arrest
or anything else in those days.

As a 43 year old grandpa, I know a LOT more now, than I did then. I
KNOW that if I had the chance to go see it with what I know now, I
would take that chance. I also know that I probably would NOT pass on
intelligence from the future as a matter of course. I would not
communicate with anyone who might be able to discern my intent, or even
anything about the future from me.

Even if I were 2.6% off track from my time line. Even if I were 45%
off track, I would not give anyone the chance to gloam on to anything I
said about the future.

Rick Donaldson

Colorado Springs


Posted by Nikki Colwill on 02-12-2001 01:31 PM

Please tell us about the enviornment, the animal kingdom, are there
any left…what kind? If there were nukes, how do any survive? What are
the physical concequences on us?

Have you heard of ascension or “The Rapture”? If so please tell what you know.

Do you trust anyone in this time frame? If so, do you share more info with them?

Have you heard of the Mayan Calander? Do you believe it to be a true or factual event timeline?

I am told that fear keeps us further from the truth and God, that being
said, you had stated earlier that fear is what would keep us alive, at
least I think you said something like that, anyway I find that a
contradiction.

I would like to speak/e-mail with you. Is that possible or something you would be willing to do? Would you consider that?

Thanks, Nikki

PS–Is Art Bell remembered? Who are the most remembered people from this time?

[Edited by Nikki Colwill on 02-12-2001 at 01:37 PM]


Posted by Kane Greene on 02-12-2001 03:49 PM

Lightbulb

John, I have a few more questions. These ones are more about the ‘War’, and the state of your world.

(1) Who is the Major Super Power?

(2) Are the two political parties still Republicans and Democrats?

(3) How many States are there?

(4) Which states get the worst?

(5) Were only cities along the Eastern Sea port hit in the Nuclear War, or all over the country?

(6) Do companys like Microsoft, Yahoo!, and other internet software companys still exist?

(7) Does money look alot different than it does now? If you have a picture, could you please upload it and post the link!

(8) So then when you time travel you can never actually go back to the EXACT same place you left from?

(9) Was alot of the United States’ 18-24 age group slaughtered in the war because of Draft?

(10)Do you ever get visitors from later time periods to 2036?

(11) Are there any other companys, besides the one you work for that have TTs and send them out regularly?

(12) Does the government know there is TT going on?

(13) Why were YOU selected to be a TT? What gave you special qualifications?

(14) How many TTs are there on the team that you are on? How do new recruits get selected?

(15) What all countrys are on our side in the war? What all countrys are on the oposite side?

(16) Which country gets the worst in the war?

Those are just a few more I came up with , I will let you know if I think of more!


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-12-2001 07:28 PM

John Titor is a fraud. Check out this forum he’s been posting on for
months. And see how he suddenly goes quiet because he is exposed.

http://www.xone.net/tti/board/ubbhtml/Forum1/HTML/000433.html

And also see the discrepancy’s in his story. And how he attempts to lure people into believing in him. http://www.xone.net/tti/board/ubbhtml/Forum1/HTML/000367.html

We found you TT_0, and now the calvary will soon arrive to expose you here too.

-Javier C.

A.K.A. TimeTravelActivist


Posted by Kennith Viccars on 02-12-2001 07:50 PM

You people are seriously starting to scare me.

Some shmuck claims to be from the year 2036, posts a few
intelligent posts on a online forum, and has a herd of sheep hanging
off his every word.

Get some direction in you lives.


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-12-2001 08:07 PM

:-(

Well it was fun while it lasted. Still haven’t read the archive of
posts of the mentioned board, though, sheep that I am, I’ll have to
take your word for it. (until I get time to read up). What were the
points that stuck out, Javier?

(I do believe in ghosts, I do believe in ghosts, I do, I do …. and on)


Posted by Sally Stanton on 02-12-2001 08:16 PM

Talking

Watch me pull a rabbit out of Ong’s Hat!!

Anway, ‘scuze me. Gotta run. My kitty’s looking for that Door into Sumer (sic).


Posted by John Titor on 02-12-2001 08:54 PM

Thank you Vega for the information. I will visit the site and I expect I will have some questions.

Yes, there are a great many people who think that Revelations has come
to pass. However, the new fear is that Christ has returned, he’s not
telling us and he’s very angry. I am not familiar with the Fatima
Prophesies but I am aware of the term. I was not sent here to change
anything. Since it would not affect my home anyway, it would be rather
pointless. I am here because of my family and the interaction I had
with them in 1975. I understand the question about the Antichrist but I
must admit I hadn’t given it much thought. My initial reaction is to
consider how the Antichrist would affect my life if I could identify
him/her. If your life became a sort of “Hell” anyway, would it matter
if the Antichrist was real?

I became aware of this bulletin board through my various archiving
work through the web. We do enjoy “talk programs” but they are
distributed over the web. I don’t have additional information about
UFOs and I find the subject quite interesting myself. I have often
wondered if they aren’t time travelers with very sophisticated
machines. Based on what I know about the nature of time I find this
difficult to believe but nothing is impossible.

Yes, handmade items and the skills to make them are quite prevalent
and people take a great deal of pride in their work. People with the
skills to make clothing, work with leather and wood or cultivate a
garden have become quite valuable. Please do not think your questions
are unimportant. I enjoy the conversation.

Fiji? I’ve noticed that when most Americans think about Canada in
this time, they think about pine trees, chooks and back-bacon. It may
interest you to know that most Canadians in 2036 are some of the most
efficient, ruthless and dangerous people I know. God help Quebec.

Within limits, I’m confident my anonymity is secure. The various
email and web accounts I have do not have a big sign that says “Time
Machine This Way –à”. In order to be at risk I would have to be
believed. In my experience, evil may be powerful, but they aren’t very
bright.

((you couldn’t even answer the simple question of what will be the next ‘movement’ in music? just something so simple as that))

Unfortunately, your question is rather difficult for me. Any
personal experience I might have with your worldline at a specific
moment is limited to my viewpoint and age. I can’t tell you what music
is popular in the next few years because the “me” here is only three
years old. In addition, how does someone decide what the most popular
music trend is? It would seem rather subjective to me. Thinking about
it now I sort of wonder what it would be like to be a teenager now and
know the answer to that question. When I was thirteen I used to worry
about which shotgun slug would take a door handle off and whether or
not I had any dry socks. Current fallout estimates are accurate but a
bit exaggerated.

Your example of what people would do based on something I might say
is accurate. However, my concern would be the potential actions of a
single person, not the masses. In 1963, if I suggested that someone
should watch the book depository windows as the President went by, the
actions of a single person might have a huge impact on history. You
also asked if I’ve visited my “past” family. That’s where I am now.

((1) Once a micro-singularity is produced and placed in statis in a
magnetic field, what is the approximate strength of that magnetic
field.

2) How is the magnetic field produced (I mean – what power source holds the field in place)?

3) What would happen to the microsignularity if that source FAILED? For
instance would the microsingularity begin to grow? Or would it cease to
exist?))

These are excellent questions that I probably won’t answer to your
satisfaction but let me make a couple of points first. Although I am
familiar with the general manufacture of the unit, I am not a physicist
or a scientist. My background is in history and I had the correct
profile to accomplish my given task in 1975. I doubt that most jet
fighter pilots are aeronautical engineers and I’ll bet most of you
couldn’t give me the formula for horsepower, yet you drive a car every
day.

The second point I can illustrate with an interesting story. In the
opening phases of WWI, one of the largest problems early fighter pilots
had was how to shoot a machine gun through the propeller blades without
chopping it to bits. The problem was very straightforward. When the
engine was off, the blades took up only a small percentage of the total
arch but with the engine on, there was seemingly no way to know when it
was safe to shoot through them. This problem lasted for quite a while
until a very smart person came up with a very simple solution. By using
a small lobed cam on the propeller shaft that controlled a switch on
the machine gun, it was possible to stop the gun from firing only when
the cam turned off the switch at the point a bullet might hit the
blade. It was so simple in fact, the other side only caught on to the
idea after one of the planes crashed and they were able to take it
apart.

My point is; seemingly very complicated problems often have very
simple and ingenious solutions using technology that is already
available. The distortion unit is not magic and no alien technology was
required to make it work. If you could see it, the “smarts” that went
into designing it will amaze you more than the technology. Heck, the
really interesting technology is in the computer.

The magnetic field does not require the fantastic energies you
might imagine. The field is “created” and captures the singularity
inside a very large and powerful specially designed particle
accelerator. If the magnetic system failed (which has numerous backups
including a system that would remove it from this worldline), the
singularity would evaporate. Although it is smaller than an electron,
it would still be quite undesirable.

((why do you keep telling us about the ww3..etc.. how do you know
that will even -happen- in our worldline? it may have already been
nipped in the bud for all you know..because ours is a different
-worldline- from yours!))

Yes, you are correct! However, I am not confident things are
different enough for you to avoid the conflict. You may also consider
the possibility that a world with no war is far less desirable in the
long run. In response to your other point, your assumptions about
causality are correct but my personal morality still comes into play. I
won’t deviate from my three rules because of the way I would feel about
myself.

The singularities do not create Tipler cylinders they create the
same physical environment without all the mass. The same math works for
both. There are two singularities. Their mass and spin is altered in
order to adjust the size of the ergosphere and cause the event horizons
to interact and create the gravity sinusoid. I have a basic home
schooling education (k-12) and a bachelor’s degree in history.

I will get to the remaining questions soon.

John


Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-12-2001 09:35 PM

i am simply going to answer many questions at once.. read above for
sources.. i do not site the source of the question. i also want to note
that i’m a very -unskeptical- person..i kinda have the philosophy that
anything is possible .. i infact, believe that time travel does most
likely exist.. but mr titor you have skirted around too many questions
to be believable. someone asked why they could not find a ‘titor
‘listed in florida.. & you failed to answer that question.. here
are my responses.

(a summary of a question) “he was only 3 years old now..how would -he- know what the next big movement in music was?”

..i know that madonna was a HUGE THING in the 80′s.. yet i was only
born in 81!! i know that ‘dallas’ & ‘dynasty’ & ‘falcon crest’
were big time t.v. shows then..but i was very young. why wouldn’t he
know of such simple things as that? & even if he was just 3..he was
5 & 6 & up to 38 before he ‘came here’..!!

another response:

“I was alive when Desert Storm took place, do I know the month it
happened? No.. I wouldn’t expect John to either. Plus, History books
from that time would probably contain things about the war from 2005,
possibly things leading up to the war. Not inventions like ‘Ginger’ and
pop artists!

History books might mention some things, but they just give a year most
of the time if it is not of grave importance, they more than less are
going to just give the year and say what it did. “

i never asked for an exact month – i asked for a rough time period.
you do not need a history book to know the things that i ask – because
i’m asking things that are common knowledge among -society-. in our
‘dumbed down’ society.. even the people w/the largest lack of knowledge
about current events know popular things that are occuring. & if
they happen to be three years old right now – don’t you think they’d
say ‘well, when i was 13, -guzzenberry- was a big t.v. show’. i need no
history book to know that by the time i was 5-9 she-ra dolls were a big
time thing.. & they were the next rave of toys. or that ‘we didn’t
start the fire’ or whatever it’s title.. was a big hit song.. if you
were a person at that time..you’d remember those sorts of silly little
things.

mr titors response to my question (mine in parenthesis):

“((you couldn’t even answer the simple question of what will be the
next ‘movement’ in music? just something so simple as that))

“”Unfortunately, your question is rather difficult for me. Any personal
experience I might have with your worldline at a specific moment is
limited to my viewpoint and age. I can’t tell you what music is popular
in the next few years because the “me” here is only three years old. In
addition, how does someone decide what the most popular music trend is?
It would seem rather subjective to me. Thinking about it now I sort of
wonder what it would be like to be a teenager now and know the answer
to that question. When I was thirteen I used to worry about which
shotgun slug would take a door handle off and whether or not I had any
dry socks. Current fallout estimates are accurate but a bit
exaggerated.”

you say popular music would be subjective..but i say: even though i
am not a fan of rap music..i know it came to the forfront in the 80′s..
run dmc.. the fresh prince.. ton loc. (ok, i kinda like those
bands..but the more modern day ones i care little for..).. i know that
madonna for instance was on countless billboards in the 80′s & was
known for her ‘sex’ driven image..michael jackson was the ‘king of
pop’.. – milli vanilli -sucked- & that ‘the new kids on the block’
were a rave w/my generation.

you also say this:

“Your example of what people would do based on something I might say is
accurate. However, my concern would be the potential actions of a
single person, not the masses. In 1963, if I suggested that someone
should watch the book depository windows as the President went by, the
actions of a single person might have a huge impact on history. You
also asked if I’ve visited my “past” family. That’s where I am now.”

when i ask you a question of why you can’t tell us ‘there will be
an earthquake in isreal in 2010..’ or something of the such..this is
not a question that someone could CHANGE. it is a natural disaster
& i purposely chose that sort of a disaster so the question could
not be passed by as you did in your response. however, you choose to
use a different type of example rather than answer my question
-directly-..

i am a basic naive -schmuck-..in that i am gullible & like to
believe everything. i’ve heard of the planet ‘nibiru’ & find the
theories extremely interesting & i even think it could be/might be
true.. i do believe in time travel & i even think that we are
perhaps being visited -now- by time travelers.. however, i don’t know
if this is -true-..just a possibility.

i just think you skirt around too many issues .. & by refusing
to even mention something from the ‘future’ that could not be -changed-
by people -today-..it just gives me further evidence that you are not
who you say you are.

i apologize to be so blunt.. but you skirt around so many questions that i just find you hard to believe.


Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 02-12-2001 11:00 PM

Red face

This could be a good exercise in Logic and Critical Thinking. I will try to approach this from a math set theory point of view.

1. John says he is a TT. ( Ok, here we have a basic statement)

2. John says he came here (1975 actually) for an IBM 5100 computer. ( Ok, he has a purpose)

3. John wants to remain anon but posts numerous posts to this board and
at least 2 others where he expounds on, among other things, the
functioning and design of the TT machine.

(OK, here is the BIG problem. Why would a TT’er reveal himself
& the TT machine? In John’s stated mission, these actions have no
purpose.)

4. John alludes to a civil war being started between the Democrats
and Republicans. Later, this escalates into WW3 and he mentions that it
is a “good” thing for our soceity. ( 3 billion people dead a “good”
thing?)

5. John tells us to: buy a gun, find 5 friends, get a bicycle, yada,
yada, yada. ( this conflicts with his above comments: here he seems to
want to save some people, while above he wants to kill us all off)

6. In previous posts John mentions that he has no idea what GINGER is
but in a later post he mentions media hype and alludes to IT not
amounting to much.

7. John mentions the Big War(2015) was between the Cities of
America (the enemy of John) and Russia, China, etc.(so not only do we
have a civil war but now we have a war between the city folk and rural
folk in the US, AND a world war)

8. John says the civil war which starts in 2004 or 2005 (depending
on the post) leads to the world war which starts in 2015. ( So we have
a TEN YEAR civil war???)

9. John mentions that the mechanical typewriter is a major machine
again in the future, but in another post says the Internet still exists
and is widely used.

( Who builds typewriters anymore and who last used the typewriter
in a most infamous way? Hint: he lived in a one room cabin in Montana
and hated technology and soceity)

Responses???


Posted by John Titor on 02-12-2001 11:51 PM

I almost made it to bed…

I’m flattered you went back and double checked.

((3. John wants to remain anon but posts numerous posts to this
board and at least 2 others where he expounds on, among other things,
the functioning and design of the TT machine. OK, here is the BIG
problem. Why would a TT’er reveal himself & the TT machine? In
John’s stated mission, these actions have no purpose.))

I still fail to see why this is a problem. If you can think of
another way where I can interact with people I would very much like to
hear your suggestions. Why isn’t the mere act of speaking with other
people an end in itself? Personally, I find the unit interesting and I
like talking about it. There must be something in your life like that.

((4. John alludes to a civil war being started between the
Democrats and Republicans. Later, this escalates into WW3 and he
mentions that it is a “good” thing for our soceity. ( 3 billion people
dead a “good” thing?))

I don’t believe I ever said the war was between Democrats and
Republicans. If I am incorrect, please point that out. It doesn’t
exactly escalate as much as it opens the door for other aggression.
Yes, I think the war would be good for society and I would be happy to
debate that with you.

((5. John tells us to: buy a gun, find 5 friends, get a bicycle,
yada, yada, yada. ( this conflicts with his above comments: here he
seems to want to save some people, while above he wants to kill us all
off))

If you could point out how this violates the three guidelines I
stated earlier I will give it considerable thought. Perhaps you are
correct and that was a mistake. Again, I don’t believe I said I want to
kill you. Personally, I think murder is wrong. You seem to be pretty
good at that yourself.

((6. In previous posts John mentions that he has no idea what
GINGER is but in a later post he mentions media hype and alludes to IT
not amounting to much.))

Again, I don’t believe I said that either. My point in that
conversation was about feeling manipulated by hype. Since they ARE
asking you to buy something, I would be very interested in your lengthy
and critical postings about ITS credibility. If you could post that
link I would very much like to see it.

((7. John mentions the Big War(2015) was between the Cities of
America (the enemy of John) and Russia, China, etc.(so not only do we
have a civil war but now we have a war between the city folk and rural
folk in the US, AND a world war))

Hmmm…are you familiar with the Russian partisan movement in WWII?

((8. John says the civil war which starts in 2004 or 2005
(depending on the post) leads to the world war which starts in 2015. (
So we have a TEN YEAR civil war???))

It’s 2004. I apologize for a missed key (very observant – we all
need good critics). Perhaps our definition of war is different. I would
define it as a conflict where organized groups engage in maneuver and
armed conflict. The first U.S. civil war lasted 4 years and the English
civil war lasted 6. How long is too long?

((9. John mentions that the mechanical typewriter is a major
machine again in the future, but in another post says the Internet
still exists and is widely used.
( Who builds typewriters anymore and who last used the typewriter in a
most infamous way? Hint: he lived in a one room cabin in Montana and
hated technology and soceity))

Actually, what I said was, “…you may be surprised at how many
people use typewriters.” I don’t understand the conflict. What’s wrong
with typewriters? At least you don’t have to plug them in.

Thanks for the patience…getting to the other questions.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-13-2001 07:54 AM

First off, the clown who called everyone “sheep” here is out of
line. Go BACK and read my posts, CAREFULLY. No one here is a sheep. We
are interested in what the guy had to say, because he made several
points, some of them very sound, scientifically.

I really detest people like you who go around and make rash assuptions
about “everyone on this list” or another list. You’re the same kind of
jerk that goes around and tells the media that “all militia members are
a bad”, or “guns are a bad thing”. The same kind of person that wants
people like “Social Services” to pidgeonhole everyone. Instead of
insulting the intelligence of the people who are here trying to use
deductive reasoning to ascertain the truth about someone’s means,
motive and methods, why don’t you go back to your little world and
leave the rest of us alone who are trying to find out the truth about
someone!? Absolute, denial of any possibilities is your bag. Go deny
Big Foot exists, or go deny that the military has an Area 51.

Mr. Titor, no, you didn’t answer my questions at all regarding
singularities (except that they would ‘evaporate’, or the device would
‘remove itself from the time line’).

In fact, regardless of your background you should have a basic
understanding of physics. I’m absoultely CERTAIN that if you’re a pilot
of an aircraft you ARE an engineer to an extent in that you understand
BASIC PHYSICS of how your aircraft flies.

If you’re a race car driver, evidence points to the fact that even THEY
have a very good understanding of their cars, engines and the physics
thereof.

I know for instance that my Jeep is capable of about 198
horsepower. I know that it uses fuel injection. I’m not a mechanic, but
I can certainly tell you a great deal about how an internal combustion
engine works. I can tell you how a bicycle functions (because I used to
ride them). I can tell you a good deal about physiology as well – the
human body, BECAUSE I HAVE TO KNOW!

By the way, I don’t remember the “horsepower forumla” off HAND, but
I can tell you 1 hp = 746 watts. I am an engineer – and I can tell you
this much more, if you’re a real time traveler from 2036 and time
travel is as easy (and as often) as you say it is, and you’re in the
military or some government service, then by 1) exposing yourself,
you’ve very likely broken several regulations, 2) Put yourself at risk
by doing so, 3) should know a hell of a lot more about the machines
you’re operating, 4) are inconsistent in several aspects of your posts.

In other words John – you’re an apparent fraud. That’s too bad,
too. These people here want to know the truth, they want to believe
that there are time travelers, and that perhaps TT would even explain
the UFO pheonomenon or other things that are unexplained in the world
today. If you were a real person and you have gone so far as to tell us
“I’m real, but I don’t care if you believe me, in fact I don’t want you
to believe me”… then you’ve got a serious problem with reality – not
relativity.

By the way, I have some very extreme reasons to doubt that a
microsignularity exists in the first place, and in the second place, if
it DID exist, I doubt it would be the “size of an electron”. In any
case, a signularity (a black hole for those of you who haven’t figured
that out yet) is an extreme mass, and holding it in a magnetic field in
a gravitational field as strong as Earth’s would simply rip the
singularity from the magnetic field causing the black hold to crash to
the center of the mass of Earth. The Earth would then become part of
the black hole as it grew in size, pulling in the matter of the Earth.

At least that’s what physics says. If there are “fail safes” on
such a device, the device’s power would have to be backed up multiple
times, and then STILL FUNCTION (to ‘rotate the craft out of this time
line’) to save the existing time line from major problems.

Sorry folks, too many holes (not black holes) in this theory.

[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 02-13-2001 at 08:01 AM]


Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-13-2001 08:57 AM

Thumbs up

Rick (& John)

Rick, you’ve made some very good points and criticisms regarding John and his claims.

That’s right, even a racecar driver has a basic understanding as to
the physics involved in his car, so John, why can’t you explain your
“time machine” in greater detail?

And just for the record the formula for horsepower is something along the lines of reldline rpm X 35 / 6500…

I know that’s not the right formula, but it’s something like that,
I can check it in my “Top 10 Torque Monsters” of Motor Trend magazine.


Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-13-2001 09:14 AM

John,

A couple of questions

1. Is the Chevy truck better than the Ford truck for time travel. I
always thought the TT package meant trailer towing. Geez was I wrong!
Is Chevy still making time travel machines in 2036?

2. How did you buy your truck? How could you title it if you are only 3 years old to the title bureau at this point?

You won’t be able to sell it in Minnesota unless it’s in your name
and clear. Is the Chevy newer and how did you pay for it? Did you
scrounge around to find 40 year old currency in 2036? I know I wouldn’t
take any money from someone that had mint marks from 2036.

3. Does the truck have to be running when you are travelling

through time. Did you come here in a Chevy? What if you run out of gas?
Are there any factory options that make it easier, like cruise control?

That’s all I can think of for now.


Posted by John Titor on 02-13-2001 10:51 AM

((1)Have you ever went on any other time traveling missions? If so, what were they?))

Yes, but they were all training missions. There is a great deal of
psychological profiling and testing and one of the training missions
involved choosing a time in your life (within two years) where you wish
you would have done something different and then going back to convince
yourself to do it. The idea is to become familiar with the possibility
of meeting yourself which can be rather difficult. It is quite odd to
look at “yourself” and have a conversation. Since any “you” on another
worldline would not be a mirror image, you get a slightly distorted
feeling while seeing yourself, let alone the concept of speaking to
yourself

(2)I believe you said you had pictures of your time machine, could you post a link to uploaded images?

I would be happy to do that and I tried a link earlier. I suspect
that attaching links to other boards without the Sysop’s permission is
in bad taste.

(3)If you have any pictures of the IBM computer you were susposed to get, could you post a link to them also?

I’m pretty sure there must be something on the web now about the IBM 5100.

(4)I looked up the name ‘Titor’ in the state of Flordia on
555-1212.com and couldn’t find ANY Titors, is your family not listed in
the phone book?

I guess it depends when you look.

(5)Can I contact you through any other means of online communications?
Like AOL Instant Messagner? ICQ? MSN? Something so I can have a
conversation with you! But if you don’t have those, could you possibly
consider downloading one of them, then emailing me your user name
abcs_123s@hotmail.com,nks!

I’ve tried talking online before and found it quite enjoyable but I
find the questions and comments come so rapidly its hard to keep up.

(6)What is the specific Date that the Nuclear war starts? If you
can’t remember the exact date, could you put the month at least? An
estimate!

I remember the exact date. When it comes, it will not be a surprise.

(7)What is the speed of the average computer in the future? I am
assuming it is in ghZ, if it is higher, could you post the name of that
hZ measurement and its relation to the ghZ?

Ghz is not a useful measurement. Computers are no longer measured by
their speed as mush as the number of variables (not calculations) they
can handle per second.

(8)Can you do your own Time Traveling ventures whenever you want?
If so, how much does it cost? Or can you make ‘pit stops’ along the way
back to 2036?

No, the unit doesn’t belong to me. I can’t make stops on the way home
as it will throw the gravity measurements off and It would force me to
backtrack along the backtrack. Also, I can’t just leave and arrive at
any place and time I want to. There are physical and technical limits
to when and where I can go.

(9)Have you ever went past your future, like to 2050 or somewhere around there? If so, what is the world like then?

No, I haven’t been to the future of my 2036. My profile qualified me for a trip to the past.

((what about marilyn monroe? i wasn’t even born yet when she was
alive – but i know she existed? & telling us something such as her
existance would not greatly affect the outcome of our entire world.. so
why not tell us?))

I understand your position and appreciate your supportive outlook.
However, I have given some very detailed information that could be
checked out. Please consider that our frame of reference is quite
different and finding subjects to discuss and exchange information
about could be a challenge. I’m just not up on music, Hollywood and
sports in the year 2001. You could ask me all you want about 1975 but I
suspect that’s not very impressive.

((…but it has nothing to do with his age..))

Actually it does, I have never personally experienced this time as
an adult and “Brittany Spears” was not a big topic of conversation when
your hiking through the swamp. Everything I know about your time is
from books, magazines and old videotapes that weren’t destroyed in the
war. If it makes you feel any better, I do struggle with not talking
about football.

The animal Kingdom is alive and well. I’m sure it suffered but
there fewer people infringing on animal’s habitats now. Nuclear war is
a very undesirable thing but it is not the end of the world. There are
areas and cities we can’t enter and the environment did suffer a great
deal of damage but we are recovering. Isn’t Hirroshima a thriving city
today? The major physical affects include skin cancer, infertility,
infection, etc. Almost everyone has some sort of physical remnant from
the war.

I am aware the concept of the Rapture is related to Christian
Prophecy but I am not familiar with the details. Yes, there are people
I trust here and I would hate for any harassment or harm to come to
them. I am aware of the Mayan Calander but in 2012, it was not
something I was able to think about. When the time comes, I’m sure
people will find the signs they are looking for that leads them to the
end of time.

When I say fear will keep you alive I am talking about the natural
instincts and premonitions that we all trun off when its convienent.
The same person who has five dead bolt locks on their door will think
nothing about getting into a parking garage elevator with a total
stranger. I think the fear of God is the fear of separation from God.

Some of you may wonder what a time traveler does with his day while
he’s posting on the web. I spend a great deal of time downloading
information and storing it for my return. “Art’s” site is definitely on
that list. I’ll have to think about who the most remembered people are.
Again, my viewpoint is quite squewed.

((1)Who is the Major Super Power? ))

It depends on how you define power. If you mean military, the world has
developed into an odd balance. There are plenty of nuclear weapons left
but if anyone uses them they will be instantly erased from the planet
by everyone else regardless of the politics. We are very tired of war.

(2) Are the two political parties still Republicans and Democrats?

There are no Republicans or Democrats to speak of. There are now over 10 major political parties.

(3) How many States are there?

The states as you know them still exist but their political power
has been combined with other states around them. There are now 5 major
geopolitical areas in the united states.

(4) Which states get the worst?

When you can’t drink the water its bad everywhere.

(5) Were only cities along the Eastern Sea port hit in the Nuclear War, or all over the country?

Mostly cities and large military areas in the entire country.

(6) Do companys like Microsoft, Yahoo!, and other internet software companys still exist?

No.

(7) Does money look alot different than it does now? If you have a picture, could you please upload it and post the link!

No, money is pretty much the same. Unfortunately, I do not have any money with me because I wouldn’t be able to use it here.

(8) So then when you time travel you can never actually go back to the EXACT same place you left from?

That is correct, in physical terms, I can never get back to the exact worldline I left from.

(9) Was alot of the United States’ 18-24 age group slaughtered in the war because of Draft?

Yes.

(10)Do you ever get visitors from later time periods to 2036?

Not that I’m aware of but I can’t say it isn’t happening.

(11) Are there any other companys, besides the one you work for that have TTs and send them out regularly?

I work for the military. GE just makes the unit.

(12) Does the government know there is TT going on?

In 2036, yes.

(13) Why were YOU selected to be a TT? What gave you special qualifications?

I am related to a key figure in the development of the IBM 5100.

(14) How many TTs are there on the team that you are on? How do new recruits get selected?

My unit has between 6 and 10. When I left, there were 7 others.
Military service, physical fitness, history or technical background and
special relationship to target contacts get you in the door.

(15) What all countrys are on our side in the war? What all countrys are on the oposite side?

Don’t have much to add there.

(16) Which country gets the worst in the war?

Again, the entire world is affected. Even if you don’t take a direct hit, dying crops and no water can ruin your day.

My time traveling nemesis Javier (a.k.a. TTA) has found me yet
again! As long as the links last, I do urge people to go back and take
a look at some of the more insightful things you have to share.

((when i ask you a question of why you can’t tell us ‘there will be
an earthquake in isreal in 2010..’ or something of the such..this is
not a question that someone could CHANGE. it is a natural disaster
& i purposely chose that sort of a disaster so the question could
not be passed by as you did in your response. however, you choose to
use a different type of example rather than answer my question
-directly-.))

I will not share information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability.

((i just think you skirt around too many issues .. & by
refusing to even mention something from the ‘future’ that could not be
-changed- by people -today-..it just gives me further evidence that you
are not who you say you are.))

Again, what I think is important doesn’t impress anyone and
although I could point to various things I’ve said about other subjects
the response is usually ho-hum tell us about music and sports. I
suppose I could lie and make something up but what’s the point?

((In fact, regardless of your background you should have a basic understanding of physics.))

I do but your questions were rather specific. I would love to talk
physics and I’ll be happy to walk through the operation of the unit.

((1) exposing yourself, you’ve very likely broken several regulations,

No, I haven’t.

((2) Put yourself at risk by doing so,))

Yes, that’s potential true but what I gain offsets that. Does that
statement answer the question why time traveler’s do not revel
themselves?

((3) should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you’re operating,))

I do know very much about it. I’m just not willing to share it with everyone.

((4) are inconsistent in several aspects of your posts.))

If you could point out the specific questions I will be happy to address them.

((By the way, I have some very extreme reasons to doubt that a
microsignularity exists in the first place, and in the second place, if
it DID exist, I doubt it would be the “size of an electron”. In any
case, a signularity (a black hole for those of you who haven’t figured
that out yet) is an extreme mass, and holding it in a magnetic field in
a gravitational field as strong as Earth’s would simply rip the
singularity from the magnetic field causing the black hold to crash to
the center of the mass of Earth. The Earth would then become part of
the black hole as it grew in size, pulling in the matter of the
Earth.))

I’m not sure if you want me to go over these issues one at a time or if you’re just making a point.

The formula for horsepower is HP = torque X RPM / 5252.

((1. Is the Chevy truck better than the Ford truck for time travel.
I always thought the TT package meant trailer towing. Geez was I wrong!
Is Chevy still making time travel machines in 2036?))

The vehicle must have a strong suspension.

((2. How did you buy your truck? How could you title it if you are
only 3 years old to the title bureau at this point? You won’t be able
to sell it in Minnesota unless it’s in your name and clear. Is the
Chevy newer and how did you pay for it? Did you scrounge around to find
40 year old currency in 2036? I know I wouldn’t take any money from
someone that had mint marks from 2036.))

Don’t worry. Fortunately, these are things we’re taught at time
travel school in “how to get around in the sarcastic 20th century. I
said I didn’t have any money from 2036. I have plenty from here.

((3. Does the truck have to be running when you are travelling
through time. Did you come here in a Chevy? What if you run out of gas?
Are there any factory options that make it easier, like cruise
control?))

The vehicle must be standing still.


Posted by Benedict Gumby on 02-13-2001 11:07 AM

You still haven’t answered my question from page 8

}:P


Posted by John Titor on 02-13-2001 11:23 AM

((I just have this to ask you. Do you recognize the name Benedict? I
want to know because I fully intend to be a prominent figure within the
next 20 years))

No, I can’t say that I do. However, since I’m archiving all of this
and will submit it with my report, it will eventually end up on our
internet.

If you want to leave a meassage to yourself in the future, please
feel free to do so. I would make it broad enough so your name or some
other important word will pop up in routine search engine that “you”
might be using in 2036.

Also, be aware that the “you” in my 2036 will be unaware that the you left a message at all.


Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-13-2001 01:14 PM

my question(i
just think you skirt around too many issues .. & by refusing to
even mention something from the ‘future’ that could not be -changed- by
people -today-..it just gives me further evidence that you are not who
you say you are.))

your response:Again, what I think is important doesn’t impress anyone
and although I could point to various things I’ve said about other
subjects the response is usually ho-hum tell us about music and sports.
I suppose I could lie and make something up but what’s the point?

you fail to understand why i ask the silly hum-drum questions. i do not
truly care what the music/hollywood will be like in 5-10 years..my
whole reason for asking the unimportant questions is because they are
-unimportant-. you say that you can’t answer questions about when a
natural disastor occurs..or things that can be -changed- by people to
alter the way they -should- happen. so i am asking questions that can
NOT be changed. someone can not change the fact that “Girly G. Hottie”
is the next big name in showbusiness’.. my whole reason for asking
these things is so that in 5-10 years when you’re “gone” i can say
“holy bejezuz.., maybe that guy was for real!”. that would be the
extent of it..it’s not like i could -do-change- anything.. i just want
to know if you’re real & you give no proof whatsoever that you’re
real. even if it’s not an instantaneous realization..i would realize
this when whatever you said would happen came true. i am -not- trying
to be shallow w/my questions..these are no things that i -care- whether
or not it’s this or that.. it’s just proof for me.

i’m beginning to think, as someone suggested – that you’re writing
a book & this is all material for it. you said you didnt want us to
be sheep & just believe..you -wanted- us to ask questions. so if we
ask questions then you can sew up any holes you have in your story.. so
it will be the tightest & most realisticly possibly sci-fi time
travel story ever. i don’t like the idea that you could possibly be
using all of these people & if you are *grr* shame on you.


Posted by John Titor on 02-13-2001 01:51 PM

((my whole reason for asking the unimportant questions is because they are -unimportant-))

If it’s unimportant to you why would it be imporatnat to me?


Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-13-2001 02:00 PM

you are the most frustrating time traveler i’ve ever met!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(ok you’re the only one i’ve ever met)

-

geez..why do you isolate that one question? the whole thing was used to
mean that it was -unimportant- in the fact that just because you tell
us those things ..we can not change or alter them.. they are just
-proof-.. unimportant meaning why would it alter time by you telling
us.. “keep an eye out for so-and-so..they will rise to fame.” or
something like that. we couldn’t -change- that.. & if we could..why
would we want to because it’s “unimportant” in comparison to a bombing
or drought or war..etc..

it is just PROOF THAT YOU’RE TRUE which you fail to provide.

you are aggravating.

-blonie-


Posted by James Boley on 02-13-2001 02:05 PM

There is a guy claiming your a fraud in another string entitled “I am from 2040…”

It would be interesting to see you go head to head.


Posted by Brad Jensen on 02-13-2001 02:39 PM

Fraud!!!

Go to my post in “I am from the year 2040…” and debunk my calculations on time travel.

You can’t, because you are a fraud!


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-13-2001 03:31 PM

This is getting just …weird …enough.

John Titor – Are you being obtuse about Bonnie’s inquiries for more
personal reasons? Her logic is pretty sound, and you’re avoiding
discussing some of the things that people naturally find curious about
other cultures. If I was traveling in any other cultural setting, I
would want to know about … The Culture. What kind of music is
popular, what kind of recreation is enjoyable, what holidays are
important…

Being a bit coy, I would say, for someone who’s been through the rigors
of such heavy historical dramas. My guess is that there are some simple
folk songs that people find some pleasure in hearing, in the future
(especially after cultural destabilizing events).

Do you feel some pleasure in breathing clean air and not having to check a geiger counter every few miles?

Are there people in this time period who are hip (aware) of Time
Travelers and who accept you as one? I would imagine there are folk in
our time, who travel in different circles (out of the mainstream), who
have some money and/or some power, and who know things that the rest of
us do not. Are you, or others, in touch with people like that? How ARE
you financing things?

And if this is NOT for real, working that tongue a little harder
‘gainst the edge of your cheek – for the rest of us simpletons, could
earn you some game points.


Posted by Jeffery Birks on 02-13-2001 05:39 PM

I spotted few typing errors in Johns comments so I will assume that
he has had an average education by our standards. There are better
questions than those posed, ones which he should find easier to answer,
but for anyone else would be much harder;

1. Name the immediate political succeosor’s to George Bush and Tony Blair.

2. Name any human being/animal/invention which became famous from
obscurity prior to today (This is really easy, just name anyone who
shot to fame for anything – provided they are completly unknown now,
and that it happens soon).

3. Name any near future shock event that makes history – political
assasinations, inventions, marriages etc, same rules – it should happen
soon with nobody having a clue it was about to happen (exept maybe
time-travellers).

4. If you are older than 36 then there should be 2 of you here
right now. You would both possess the same basic fingerprints and DNA.
If you really want to prove your case then meet up with your younger
self and get some police evidence.


Posted by Angel Lynnn on 02-13-2001 06:10 PM

Exclamation

John,

Would you be willing to call in on Art’s show on Wednesday, Feb. 14? He will have open lines all night.

If he had a time traveler line open would you call in?

How long will you be here in 2001?

When are you going back?

What all are you taking back with you?

Is propane still around in the future?

Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.

Angel Lynnn


Posted by Roy Meserve on 02-13-2001 06:43 PM

A most compelling story and an interesting person. I am no

scientist so cannot question adequately the physics invol-

ved in such endeavors- but I could not understand Al Bielek

and his recounting of the science behind the Montauk episode

either, but I know he was telling the truth. For those int-

ersted, from that interview and Mr Bielek’s book, I fully believe time
and space travel exists,(since 1983) although under exactly whose aegis
I do not presume to know.

And your socio/eco/political comments about our present state and its fate are eminently believable and highly likely.

I would hope that the paradise I live in would somehow be spared
(the Hawaiian Islands) but I suspect it would not be spared as a
strategic target for obvious reasons. Indeed, in general terms I
understand innately for myself why these things must come to pass. May
God have mercy on our souls.

Thanks for your own curiosity and courage. I wish you and your family only the best…for all time.

R.C. Meserve

rcmeserv@lava.net


Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 02-13-2001 06:55 PM

Talking

But I will absolutely not get sucked into another “Waverider” hoax.

Come on people, don’t you remember the Waverider?

The Waverider and his fantastic faxes to AB?

Well I do.

And I admit he suckered me too…for a while.

I also remember when he went on the show and made a complete fool
of himself. Art finally came to his senses too and blasted him. It
would be nice to find out the date he was on and get a copy of the
broadcast.

Webmaster? A little help please.

Well anyway, back to the subject matter. I don’t hate John and I don’t dislike him either. I am nuetral about him.

There is a world of difference between him and the Waverider
though. John has an articulate manner of writing and has an amazing
command of our present language (35 years old by him) I also went back
and reread ALL his posts and I only found one spelling error and no
grammatical errors, so he pretty much shames me on that count. His
written content seems to be well subdued and consistent. (except for
the 2004 vs. 2005 thing) John seems to be of above average IQ and
conducts himself in a dignified manner.

Of course all this analysis was made from his posts so he could be an entirely different person in real life.

Since I am not completely galvanized against John I have thought about the possibility of Human TT. (ET TT is another matter)

Logically though the revelation of his TT ability still makes no sense,
as he could easily question people of this time and get all sorts of
info without revealing himself.

So that leads to the question why would he reveal himself if he has no stated aganda for doing so?

Some hypothesis:

1. John IS a TT’er who has a hidden agenda. It could be as simple
as a gentle nudge in a certain direction. ( It aint gonna happen John,
for the most part humans are a stubborn illogical lot whose memory of
past events is in the area of weeks, instead of years or decades)

2. John came here to give somebody a “Back to the Future” type of
push so as to invent the Time Machine. ( My opinion on this is that no
one needs to “invent” the TM because if is has been built in the future
then it has always been invented, and we are merely waiting for someone
to “discover” it. Just look back at most of the major advancements in
science, almost every invention of science already existed, it only
needed people to put it together.

About the only things humans have invented deal in the arts. music
etc. This opinion comes from the “all times exist at once” theory.)

3. John came back for some kind of nostalgia tour and has decided
to take a rest stop in 2001 ( don’t stay too long John or you will
become polluted by us to such an extent you will probably end up in
Vegas hocking your TM at the tables!)

4. John came here to witness some catastrophic near future event
and won’t tell us about it (to me this would be the most plausible
reason of them all because whatever he tells us would be rendered mute
by the “event”)

5. < your thoeries here>


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-13-2001 07:10 PM

Smile

I’d just like to say, before John Titor, (A.K.A. TT_0 in the post
where he’s been taken out almost) that when he posts, he does a
maneuver that focuses the question back to the receiver, as to have him
think it’s been answered, and to shut him up. (Which in fact, he just
avoided answering it, by doing what he did). He does this very often,
and I’d just wanted to point that out before he did it again.

Hey TT_0, why didn’t you acknowledge my last post? It’s me TTA. I know
your feeling the pressure, and it’s only going to get worse.

-Javier C.

P.S. You should have seen Johns reply posts to me in the beginning. He likes to use the word “Kill” alot.


Posted by John Titor on 02-13-2001 11:32 PM

((John has been unable to explain time travel, I will explain it here.))

I could be wrong but I don’t recall being asked to “explain time
travel”. If you could point that out to me in the posts I would
appreciate it.

So it’s ritualized combat on the battlefield of differential
geometry. It’s a shame we couldn’t have more constructive dialogue on
the subject. Of course, I’ve left my physics book in the time machine
so unless you snuck in a hidden land-mine, I found your opening move
very straightforward. However, you’re too confident I won’t be able to
offer an explanation that I’m sure other physics fans will appreciate.
I wonder if Einstein and Grossmann did it this way or maybe they just
listened to each other and tried to build on what they thought would
work. Oh well.

((..and debunk my calculations on time travel. You can’t, because you are a fraud!))

When I look up debunk, I see: “To expose or ridicule the falseness,
sham or exaggerated claims.” The reason I cannot debunk your
calculations is because they are true. They are not false, based on
speculative facts or exaggerated. They are just incomplete. What you
really want me to do is finish your explanation or I will be an
imposter.

((There are, however, certain quantities that do remain constant. These
constants are related to four-dimensional quantities known as metric
tensors.))

Actually, I don’t think that’s correct. Minkowski spacetime (4-D)
will not allow you to use Pythagoas’ theorem to decribe tensors because
time needs to be expressed with the opposite sign. (please excuse my
change of varibale case).

ds^2 = -c^2dt^2 + dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2

(where ds describes timelike and spacelike trips).

The tensor we should be discussing is:

ds^2 = -a^2dt^2 + w^2(df – wdt)^2 + (r^2/ D)dr^2 + r^2dq^2

I hope I got the symbols right but you should be able to recognize
this…right? nuts… the a, f, r, Delta and q didn’t make the
translation in this font.

((The US government, including the UN, has its hands in everything
from biological tests to secret planes that can fly out of Earths
atmosphere.))

Care to share with me how you solved the overheating problem on your spaceplane?

Javier, don’t worry. I’ll talk to you too. Please check again and you’ll find my hello.

I will get to and review the questions I missed. I apologize if my
answers seemed flippant. There are many posts I want to respond to and
I am unable to pay as much attention as I would like.


Posted by Andrew Hubbard on 02-14-2001 04:10 AM

Question

This is great.

here is some questions:

1) Does the last name hubbard have any historical(is that the right term?) relevance?

2) What happens with Australia? does it play a major part in the war?

3) What colloquial language is used in the future?

4) What exactly happens to the water? does it get poisoned from radiation?

5) Have you actually met your parents? if so, what are their thoughts on you?

6) Does time have ends?

7) Lets just say that people from the future are manipulating events
now, such as preventing a tragedy, making it never occur. If it never
occured, no body would be sent back to stop it, which would mean that
the event does take place. This would lead to the prevention of it
happening again, and so on. What would happen in one of these
situations?


Posted by Ryan Murphy on 02-14-2001 05:28 AM

John, if you really did travel through time you’d be dead. You have
to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the
solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel
back through time, you’d materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in
2036, which is the vacuum of space..


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 06:25 AM

You requested I point out some inconsistencies. I’ll point out one in the following exchange between you and I.

[[I do but your questions were rather specific. I would love to talk physics and I’ll be happy to walk through the operation

of the unit.

((1) exposing yourself, you've very likely broken several regulations,

No, I haven’t.

((2) Put yourself at risk by doing so,))

Yes, that’s potential true but what I gain offsets that. Does that
statement answer the question why time traveler’s do

not revel themselves?

((3) should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you're operating,))

I do know very much about it. I’m just not willing to share it with everyone.

((4) are inconsistent in several aspects of your posts.))

If you could point out the specific questions I will be happy to address them. ]]

Specifically, you stated my questions were “rather specific” and
you’d be “love to discuss physics and happy to walk through the
operation (I assume of the machine)”. A few lines later you state
(after me saying you should know a hell of a lot more about the
machines you’re operating) that you do know much about it, but you’re
not willing to share it with everyone. So… which is it? Are you
willing to share information on the operation, a walkthrough of the
machine, time travel… or AREN’T YOU?


Posted by Brad Jensen on 02-14-2001 07:01 AM

You have been challenged John. You have finished the space-time
manipulation calculations, but left important details out, of which we
will not expound on.

Read my reply in my string. Can you explain, just basicly mind you, the time travel process?


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 07:18 AM

I conclude that John is:

1) Not from the future.

2) He has no time machine.

3) He is doing this for personal gain – whether monetary, or
social-interaction, but more specifically, I believe he is working on
either a psychology study/degree/thesis.

4) He is in his late 20′s or early 30s.

If John were a time traveler, he would not be here telling us
anything about himself. He certainly would not give us information
regarding anything having to do with “future technology”, regardless of
the divergence of timelines. You see… even a semi-unethical person
would have qualms about screwing up a society that you can taste,
touch, feel and experience.

If John truely IS a time traveler (which he isn’t in the sense he
is trying to lead us to believe) then he is here to witness an
historical event that we have yet to figure out. Either the beginning
of World War III (which some of us already believe is about to happen)
or the beginning of Civil war. I can postulate and guess all day, at
all sorts of reasons – about all all sorts of things I can figure out
on my own. In other words.. if John were a time traveler, he would be
here NOW to watch something about to happen (very historical, very
important…). If he would answer some questions about the physics of
his alledged time ship, I would be willing to go along with this some
more.

At this point… my points above (1-4) stand. John is a fraud.

Sorry John… it was fun while it lasted.


Posted by John Titor on 02-14-2001 07:25 AM

On a nearby thread, Brad writes:

((John has been unable to explain Time Travel, I will explain it here.

So where do we start? Well let us start with one of the greatest
triumphs of the human mind, the great theorem of Pythagoras, a true
pillar of all mathematics and physics. The theorem, which is applicable
to right angled triangles in flat Cartesian (Newtonian) space takes the
form of:

c^2 = a^2 + b^2

where a, b and c are the lengths of the sides of the triangle.

Next we will jump straight to Einstein’s theory of Relativity which
states that neither time, length, or indeed mass remain constant
additive quantities when approaching the speed of light c. Our simple
ideas of time and space come from the fact the we are so used to living
in a three dimensional universe. Einstein showed that this was simply
not true and in fact all the “foundational” three laws of Newton have
to be fudged by the Lorentz factor

L_f = (1 – v^2/c^2)^-1/2

There are, however, certain quantities that do remain constant. These
constants are related to four-dimensional quantities known as metric
tensors. From this Einstein proved that space and time are two aspects
of the same thing and that matter and energy are also two aspects of
the same thing. From the second of these concepts we get the most
famous equation in physics

E = mc^2

Now since time and space are aspects of space-time and we wish to
travel through time and not build atom bombs we will leave E=mc^2 for
the moment. To illustrate this, look at the extension of Pythagorean
theorem for the distance, d, between two points in space:

d^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2

where x, y and z are the lengths, or more correctly the difference in
the co-ordinates, in each of the three spatial directions. This
distance remains constant for fixed displacements of the origin.

In Einstein’s relativity the same equation is modified to remain
constant with respect to displacement (and rotation), but not with
respect to motion. For a moving object, at least one of the lengths
from which the distance, d, is calculated is contracted relative to a
stationary observer. The equation now becomes:

d^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 (1-v^2/c^2)^1/2

and this implies that the distances all shrink as one moves faster, so
does this mean there are no constant distances left in the universe?
The answer is that there are because of Einstein’s revolutionary
concept of space-time where time is distance and distance is time! So
now

s^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 – ct^2

and this new distance s (remember s stands for Space-time) does indeed
remain constant for all who are in relative motion. This distance is
said to be a Lorentz transformation invariant and has the same value
for all inertial observers. Since the equation mixes time and space up
we have to always think in terms of this new concept: space-time!

Then one runs into the problem of ‘outside dating’. Meaning, as the
traveler manipulates space-time, the rest of the universe ages normaly.
Then we must take inter-dimensional transition into account. Once a
hole is ripped into a dimensions fabric, it follows whatever entered
the rip. Once the travler enters the new dimension, he commences his
engines to reach the c speed (speed of light), and travels through
time. The rip on the travelers side will stay in the same geographic
location, while traveling through time, while the rip on the new
dimension will follow the traveler. Once the desired time is reached,
the travelar reenters the rip, and he has effectively traveled through
time))

((As for John Titor’s corrections on space-time manipulation, he has completed it correctly. However, he still an imposter.))

Apparently, I have made the leap from “fraud” to imposter. At least
that’s a start and I respect my opponent on his polite yet quiet
concession on the other thread. I wish to emphasize a point I tired to
make earlier. Even though I answered the question correctly, it doesn’t
really prove one way or another if I’m a time traveler and you should
not think otherwise. I might just be really quick at looking up things
up on the web.

I suppose we could debate whether or not I’m a fraud all the way up to the point I leave your worldline.


Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-14-2001 08:05 AM

Why do I keep flashing back to the Monty Python movie ” Brazil “?
The picture of those old typewriters with those hilarious screen
magnifiers just sticks in my head. Is this the world we are heading
towards where everything is so bizzarely complicated that nothing
works?


Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-14-2001 09:05 AM

Angry

Time out!

I thought the idea here was to have constructive dialogue.

Personally I don’t give a rat’s behind whether or not John is from the future.

I have enjoyed this discussion more than any I’ve been in before.
First off why the personal attacks? I’ve mentioned before that this guy
is a study in self control. He never sinks to the level of the
aggressor, some of us could learn from that.

NEWS FLASH:

In case somebody here has not noticed!

When was the last time you spoke with someone as intelligent and well versed in these subjects?

I hope John or whatever his name is writes a book. I’ll publish him if he wants.

The story John tells is sobering, realistic, and ENTERTAINING.

The last time I looked participation here was discretionary. If
you don’t like the subject, either question the guy, expose the guy, or
leave the guy alone. Alternatively you can learn from what he says.
I don’t understand all the personal attacks.

Let’s say that John is a “confused person” would it not be kinder to help him regain his senses, than to attack him.

Let’s say he’s writing a book. Hey John “great story” when does the book come out.

Let’s say he’s a hoaxer and really enjoys deceiving everyone and lies
all the time. Mr. Titor we have a job for you in D.C. after the
“Neanderthal” gets voted out in 4 years.

I know people who would consider John’s world a reasonable improvement over what we have today. I agree with them.

If you had to guess what John’s political affiliation was what would you say?

Democrat

Republican

Libertarian

Independent

Conservative

Liberal

None of it fits does it? I have revelation for you This guy is “an American”.

As gloomy a picture as he paints, the society he describes is leaps
and bounds ahead of us in their reverence for the Constitution which as
John says we should all read.

JC has been on this guy’s case for a while now and I don’t see “Titor” insulting him or anyone else.

As to the frequency of the word “kill” in his posts. so what? it
proves nothing and if you look at all the posts that statement is
invalid.

Go read some of Ed Dames’s garbage.

I’m not here to defend John I’m expressing my frustration with the
posters that derive their ego gratification by attacking others and
hitting below the belt.

By below the belt I mean “unwarranted personal attacks”

Read the rules of this BBS, you’ll see that it’s supposed to be an
open forum for “discussions from the other side of the fence” if you
want namby pamby traditional BS go to the Rush Limbaugh show, or maybe
you like born again Christian lies, Jerry Fallwell has a few books to
sell you.

To the physicists and physics enthusiasts. Let’s see your proof,
your CV, and your school transcripts. Do you want to talk about
verifiable backgrounds?

Why don’t you subject yourself to the same scrutiny that you
subject others to. Most serious physicists would be hard pressed to
come “here” of all places and “demand” empirically tested responses
from a guy who claims to be from 2036. Get a clue!

I suggest that if he is an attention monger hoaxer, he got you. He made
you get flustered and loose your sense of decorum. Your folly not his.

Before I forget. Anyone who has been on the Internet longer than 5
minutes knows that spelling errors, and grammatical errors are not
considered to be indicative of a person’s intelligence, or educational
background.

No I will not engage in name calling on a personal basis, and I
won’t respond to flame e-mails, and I won’t be posting any more in this
thread. Some of you are childish and have a mob mentality. who wants to
discuss time travel, physics, or the time of day, with a lynch mob.

Peace

[Edited by Ernie Vega on 02-14-2001 at 09:16 AM]


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 09:44 AM

“NEWS FLASH:

In case somebody here has not noticed!

When was the last time you spoke with someone as intelligent and well versed in these subjects? “

Well… last time *I* personally spoke to someone about these
subjects who is as ‘well-versed’ was about 30 minutes ago when I came
from speaking to a couple of physicists upstairs. Somehow, I end up
speaking to a lot of these types of folks (physicists) – I guess it
might have something to do with the job I do for the government.

“The last time I looked participation here was discretionary. If
you don’t like the subject, either question the guy, expose the guy, or
leave the guy alone. Alternatively you can learn from what he says. I
don’t understand all the personal attacks. “

You’re right, however, I don’t think we are attacking him, we are
QUESTIONING HIM. Somehow I always see this out of liberally-biased
people, when someone is being quizzed, these liberally-biased people
complain of attacks when they (or their heros) can’t answer questions
to someone’s satisfaction. He has not answered questions to anyone’s
satisfaction thus far. He has subjected himself to our scrutiny and you
are jumping to his defense because you feel bad for him? Don’t. He put
himself in this position. He is responsible for the questions, not you.

“Let’s say that John is a “confused person” would it not be kinder
to help him regain his senses, than to attack him. Let’s say he’s
writing a book. Hey John “great story” when does the book come out. “

Not at all. John is not confused. John is also not a time traveler, but
he has a fantastic imagination. That much is true. Political
correctness is not my forte, nor do I profess that anyone use it
anymore. It is passe. Sorry. PC is thought control, and being NICE to
someone so as not to hurt their feelings is a by-gone thing, of another
era.

“Let’s say he’s a hoaxer and really enjoys deceiving everyone and
lies all the time. Mr. Titor we have a job for you in D.C. after the
“Neanderthal” gets voted out in 4 years. “

Hmmm… now, you bring me to the point of asking you – why are you
now attacking the President of the United States? What has he to do
with any of this? Why are you calling him a Neanderthal? Because your
guy, Gore, lost the election? I’m sorry you feel that way, especially
since you seem to think we ought to be nice to John and not attack him
(even though we weren’t). You thought, more than likely, we should have
been nice to Clinton as well. I expect you to act the same way as you
expect me to act. Don’t attack the President (in particular since he
has nothing to do with this conversation).

The one thing I can agree with you that was mentioned, that I
didn’t quote here was the idea of spelling errors, grammer errors and
such. I’m certain I have spelling errors. I have almost 21 years of
hard-core “schooling” and I make serious spelling errors all the time.
That includes over 9 years of college, thoughout which, writing was one
of the most important aspects. We all make errors, in spelling…
judgement. Perhaps we could all be nicer to those of us who make
spelling errors.

However, Ernie, when one places himself up for study, as has John,
then one needs to understand that there will be questions. These are
not attacks (as your crude comments about the President of the United
States were), but questions concerning his veracity. Question yourself,
before you judge others motives. I’ve questioned MYSELF on whether I
should even consider joining this discussion. I did so based solely on
my inherit need to know about things like time travel. I asked
legitimate questions. They were ignored, then later, when I asked
others, they were skirted. John is therefore, either a liar, writer or
a man who simply doesn’t want to get caught in a circle of lies from
which he can not extract himself. That is too bad.

I really hoped it was the real thing, this time.


Posted by Kennith Viccars on 02-14-2001 09:50 AM

This is no more then a comedy sketch thread now.

Keep it coming, it’s great material.

John, you ever consider doing stand up?


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 10:24 AM

http://pub2.ezboard.com/fmagisystemstimelordsanonymus.showMessage?topicID=53.topic

In case anyone is interested is looking at them.


Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-14-2001 02:53 PM

Red face

Touche? Rick:

I would have sent this to you personally but you won’t accept e-mails.
Your web site is unreachable. and ICQ is not an option for me. Do you
actually use ICQ from work? where there is sensitive information?

I admit it was naive indeed for me to think I could get away with my last post without being taken to task for it.

So I hereby eat my words about not posting anymore. I guess that makes me a liar also.

Why did you assume I was directing my comments to you? my
statements were not an indictment of your questions in particular. In
fact I didn’t consider “your” statements as an attack at all until you
called JT a liar.

I’m not defending Titor or his claims, he did not answer some of my
question to my satisfaction either, but I don’t take that to mean I
have license to call him a liar. Do you call everyone that doesn’t give
you a satisfactory answer a liar? if so does that really make sense?

As to scrutiny being self inflicted. I have personal experience there also.

If you care to look. I make statements on my web sites that yield
thousands of e-mails pro and con. I deal with controversial topics, I
write about them, and I market alternative energy devices. I use
physics in my work every day.

Can you explain the mechanics of creating a trans-dimensional vortex?

What would happen if you mixed equal parts 4oz each of: bronzing
powder, epoxy, and bee’s wax,and NASA grade quartz, then into it you
introduce a gold plated rod, introduce 2 coils, one on each side.
Attach a tone generator to each coil reversing the polarities.

Then attach a power supply of to each tone geneator say, 12 volts / 500 Ma. Once the epoxy sets up.

Set one generator to pulse at 18 hz and the other at 11hz and
pushed the on button? What would happen? any clue? If you could get
this to spin at say 3600 rpm what would happen then?

What would the use of pi as opposed to phi in a formula for attenuating a static EMF do to a multidimensional construct?

If you could see zero point energy what color would it be?

Is there a sub-atomic particle that requires being aknowledged before it can be measured? If so explain why?

Why does water have molecular memory? If it does, does it mean we
don’t need to use drugs anymore, and we can just charge water with a
sample?

How is homeopathic medicine prepared? do you really believe that, a
homeopath in Schenectady New York has the equipment to perform a 40
million to 1 dilution of a microgram of some substance with any degree
of accuracy?

I have my fair share of supporters and detractors regarding my life work, and political ideology.

I have been called everything you can imagine that is unpleasant,
by people that don’t know me at all. Excuse me if I take issue with
this. Notice how quickly you labeled me a liberal. Why Rick? was it
something I said? or did you make other assumptions about me? based on
my profile? or my surname?

I don’t deny anyone’s right to say what they want. In fact I’ll go
to the mat for free speech. That’s a basic right we have here in the
U.S.

Your profile implies that you are a patriotic American. If so why
don’t you see what Titor is really doing. Patriotism is something near
and dear to me. My family has lost much in defense of idealism.

My family has been involved in the military, government, and diplomacy
for 900+ years, in many nations where my ancestors have lived starting
with Spain and culminating here. I take politics and politicians very
seriously, and you should also since they are the manipulators of our
society, and attempt to architect our way of thinking.

All I know about you is in your profile and your post. None of it
is enough for me to feel the need to insult you, or be condescending to
you as your post was to me. I don’t know you!

For the record.

I don’t think anyone who ran for office last november was worth a vote.

I’m not a liberal.

Gore was never “my” guy.

Clinton is no better no worse than any other politician.

If P.C. is passe why can’t I say the President is a neanderthal.

If you really like “guns, shooting” and you are interested in
democracy, you should be reading the writing on the wall, like many
other patriots.

In the not so distant future you may have to actually live up to the
Patriotic ideal that gun advocates talk about all the time, and
actually have to go out and defend the Constitution. Would you do this?
I would, against all enemies foreign and domestic. This includes the
governmet by the way.

I don’t think the enemy is “Black” or “Hispanic” or from the middle
east. If you have to fight for your country and your family during your
lifetime it will most likely be against Americans of all races.

The office of the President of the United States is the most important job on the planet.

Much depends on the President’s ability to think, and act in a decisive and clear fashion, our lives depend on it.

Although I don’t know President Bush personally, nor would I care to make his acquaintance.

It is common knowledge that in the brain department he is (let’s be
P.C. so you don’t have a partisan fit) to say the least “challenged”.
This is a matter of record not conjecture. Surely you are not going to
deny that.

What would be your guess as to Dan Quaile’s IQ?

Would you argue that point of light?

2 less than brilliant people as President, and Vice President in a
row says as much about Republicans, as the Clinton scandals, and Gore’s
ineptitude say a about the democrats.

Can you honestly state here that in the last 8 years you did not
voice any opinion about Clinton, or something personally disparaging
about him or his wife. Did you ever call Carter a coward?

Did you just start your job at the government? if you started before
the new administration why are you so quick to jump to your new boss’s
defense and so quick to indict your previous boss?

If you could, would you debate the President on internal issues? or
foreign policy? I would. According to the Constitution everyone is fair
game for scrutiny “especially” the President.

A large segment of the population has become indifferent to the actions of the FED.

We are all going to pay dearly for acting like “sheep”.

Government Phycisists do not really discuss time travel with
“System Engineers”. Unless they are just conjecturing to impress you,
and don’t really know much more than you do.

If they did they would go to jail for telling you.

Unless of course you have adequate security clearance, in which
case “you” would likely be in breech discussing it here. Moreover you
would already know the truth about time travel, so there would be no
point in seeking it here.

Working for the government does not of itself give you access to
classified information. I worked for the government in the past and all
it got me was an education in government squandering of taxpayer money.

You are a systems Engineer working for a government agency right? I have a 5 questions for you.

What happens to your budget next year if you don’t use up all of this year’s allotment?

What happens to the hardware that your agency replaces with newer models?

Have you ever performed a partisan task while on the job?

Have you ever made a political contribution to keep your job?

Have you ever used your office PC to surf the web for non work related reasons? See how easy it is to take a cheap shot.

It was government scientists that decided that Heroin addicts in
methadone programs were being descriminated against when denied work
driving Trains and buses, even piloting aircraft, or as air traffic
controllers. The rationale was that since some addicts showed
agitation, and others became lethargic, that in general Methadone does
not have a deleterious effect on concentration, and coordination. They
actually went as far as to publish that Methadone only has a placebo
effect and does not produce a high.

Going to credibility and proof? Just how much is enough for you?

If I were to tell you a story that was fantastic in nature and read
like a science fiction book. This story would relate meetings with high
ranking Military officers, DOD operatives, The CIA. It dealt with UFO,
E.T., global politics, and manipulation of the American press by
foreign operatives in cahoots with the CIA. Would you believe?

I think not.

What if you were able to verify that all of the above actually took
place by checking declassifed documents, addresses, military records,
police reports, individual personal validation by witnesses, and the
only thing you could not know for sure was what was discussed at these
meetings.

Would you then believe? I doubt it, why? because the actual facts (the conversations) can’t be verified.

I have lived such a story and I know I could never prove it to anyone’s
satisfaction, yet it really happened to me, I was nearly killed. I even
have permission from the government to tell anybody I want because they
know there’s not a snowball’s chance in hell that anyone (that
counts)would believe it.

I have considered fictionalizing it but it irks me to have to lie so
people will take me seriously. Since I don’t need the money, and I
don’t want to have to respond to every question posed to me,
intelligent or not, I choose to keep it to myself and my friends.

My point is that as hard as you try on this board, there is no way
you are going to find the truth (about time travel at least)you are
looking for until someone pulls up to you in a time machine and takes
you to another time.

I enjoy a good debate as much as the next guy, and Im prepared to
back up all my statements. I do however require a certain amount of
civility to enter into protracted debate, as I believe that the moment
you lose perspective, the conversation becomes moot.

I do feel that some personal attacks are valid. If a person is
harming others with his statements, and has been “proven” to be
dishonest, and malicious in intent.

Like the President for instance

I have no problem with anyone taking them on on a personal level. I do it so I would be a hypocrite to expect others not to.

Again I appeal to you to e-mail me if you want to carry this any further we are off topic now.

Peace


Posted by Heather Cattles on 02-14-2001 03:40 PM

I have to agree with Ernie in some aspects. So what if you don’t
believe he’s a true time traveller? Leave it at that. I’m always open
to ideas, I neither poo poo them nor do I automatically say their true.
I like to say I sit on a line between where I can go either way. I’m
not frowned upon because I make descisons too fast. There’s a lot in
this world we don’t know.. everything from creatures, to diseases to
even time travel.

Personally I find this thread interesting, without a lot of the
just totally putting John down. If you don’t believe him fine, leave it
at that. John, you are an interesting person and I’m here and I enjoy
seeing your replys, be it real or not. I’m just glad to see a person or
two remaining cool in this and not going towards personal attacks.

John, if you are a true time traveller, when you leave to go back to the future, give my “Hello” to the future.

-Heather


Posted by Andrew Hubbard on 02-14-2001 05:13 PM

I feel my earlier questions were written without much thought. I
have read all of your posts, and although I don’t ‘believe’, I do find
what you are saying very very interesting. I would like to rephrase a
few of my questions, In hope that it may make it easier for you to
answer (feel free to just answer yes/no). I am mainly interested in the
roles/parts Australia plays (as I live here) in the war and then the
general way of life after the war. I understand you may not have much
information reguarding other countries, but I thought I would ask
anyway.

1) What role does Australia play in the war? You stated elsewhere
that they repulse a Chinese invasion – Does this mean Australian
government side with your enemy? (As I think I recall you stating that
they allied with your side + Russia… Could be wrong though.)

2) Does intercontinental transportation still exist? If so, have you visited other countries?

On a more observational note, the world you describe reminds me of
the post sacked Trantor in Asimov’s ‘Foundation’ series. And that makes
me smile.

Thanks


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-14-2001 07:48 PM

Smile

John,

Why do you not answer people’s questions, but only answer certain questions that they ask?

Here’s a question, why not answer Rick’s Post? He brought out some
good points, I’m sure there worth commenting on. And I’m pretty sure
lots of people here would love to hear your input on them.

-J.C.


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 01:09 AM

Well John, I imagine you are here gathering technology for the
forces of “Good” – or at least for the forces of just plain old decent
folk doing the best they know how.

Today’s news stories

“In a news report reminiscent of the days of the old USSR, Pravda
recently claimed that Pres. Bush’s National Security Adviser,
Condoleezza Rice, made belligerent comments about Russia to the
magazine El Figaro. Only problem: Rice was never interviewed with El
Figaro. Rice’s office tells NewsMax.com most of the claims made in the
reports were fabricated.”

Any idea whose provoking this?

…and this one

“MOSCOW –– The Russian military held air exercises near Norway and
Japan on Wednesday, forcing fighter jets in both countries to scramble
and eliciting a strong protest from Japan, which said the planes
violated its airspace.

Japan’s Foreign Ministry called in a Russian diplomat to protest and
the defense agency said the Russian military planes violated Japanese
airspace twice.

“Russia has sharply increased test flights of its planes since NATO’s
campaign in Kosovo,” said Alexander Pikayev, a military analyst at the
Carnegie Endowment’s Moscow office. “The military wants to show that
it’s too early to write Russia off.”

“Whether they violated airspace of not, that’s not the key thing,” said
Pavel Felgenhauer, an independent military analyst. “They were
demonstrating the rebirth of Russia’s military might.”

Pikayev said Wednesday’s exercises may also be a response to recent
signals from Washington that Russia no longer occupies a privileged
place in U.S. foreign policy.

____

I got about 70-80% of your dimension ripping tutorial, BTW. Thanks


Posted by Chad Dirks on 02-15-2001 01:12 AM

Hrm, Mr. Titor, I do not believe anything that you have said, nor do I believe that you are in any manner what you claim to be.

…you are of course, welcome to hold the same opinion of myself, but
since this does appear to be a forum for discussion, I shall try to
lend what I can, yes?

(Please forgive my lacking grammar, and by all means, don’t feel forced to read or respond, this is quite lengthy.)

1. You have claimed several times that you will not participate in
assisting anyone to get out of ‘death by probability’. Yet any number
of the things that you have said could have already caused an
individual to do or not do something that will now result in them
either dying, or escaping death an otherwise fated death.

It does not matter whether or not everyone believes you. For every
statement made there are people who believe you, and there are people
changing their living patterns in response to those beliefs. There is
no way for you know there is no future world leader reading this and
believing.

————————————————————

2. You claim that you have no interest in proving to us that you
are a time-traveller. To hear you take such a stance is laughable. Look
at what a show you have put on here. Instead you tell us that you only
wish us to make us aware of time-travel as a possiblity (see #1 again),
or that you only wish to observe us and speak of cultural and religious
issues, something interesting to a historian.

You came and posted on this site with one intention that was clear
as of your first post: to make us believe that you are a
time-traveller. You have continued this thread for that purpose alone,
and I find everything you have done supports this.

As far as wishing to speak of issues regarding our humanity, or
culture, it is quite clear that this is not your intention (contrary to
what you insist). If you truly wished to do this your first line would
not have been, ‘I am a time-traveller’. If you truly wished to do this
you would not have continued this thread once you realized that line
would not serve your claimed goals.

You certainly did not expect to examine our humanity or culture by
first telling us that we would be disucussing it with a time-traveller.
The entirety of this thread has been: you developing your story.

This thread that you have continued to participate in has gone
entirely counter to your claimed goals, and it is obvious that you are
knowingl fueling it in that direction.

————————————————————

3. “5100 I have now required a couple of special “tweaks” that had to be done by one of the software engineers in 1975″

“We need something portable. The 5100 isn’t required for its
reliability, its needed to translate between APL, UNIX and a few
obscure IBM mainframe languages.”

I find it very difficult to belive that a software tweak (hence
‘software engineers’, -software-) done to a 1975 machine could cause it
to do this translation more effectively or more portably than something
around even today. I find it almost impossible to believe that a tweak
done by a ‘software engineer’ in 1975 could provide for you something
that you could find at no other place between now and ‘your time’, and
certainly without having to make a stop-over in our time to get back
that far.

Furthermore, I find the notion that one of a limited number of
time-machines would be used in this manner to be nothing short of
nonsensical. There are more effective ways to accomplish what you claim
in this regard.

————————————————————

4. I have, and continue to believe Dr. Hawking’s view in regards to
the possibility of time travel if indeed the model of time is what you
have suggested, that all possibilities occur in different time-lines,
in different universes is the way that time truly is. For this reason
alone I cannot accept you. It is entirely logical, and I have seen no
good case to counter it.

————————————————————

You claim that you have no desire to prove your story to us, yet
everything you have done from the moment you first posted here has
flown in the face of that. As I mentioned before, your desire is so
strong that you have even appeared to become heated in manner in
reaction to your validity being questioned.

What is more, you bring with you the claim that you will tell us no
names, no locations, or any specifics as a result of your supposed
ethics. If those were indeed the ethics you were committed to and
reasoned with, you would not be here now.

However, I do commend you on engineering your story, as by its very nature we cannot prove it false.

[I realize that I am only feeding this frenzy, but that speaks for
what it is and what Mr. Titor has indeed accomplished, it is effective
in provoking a response, but then again, so is stepping on a rusty
nail]

Mr. Titor:

====================================

I visit with a pink unicorn in the garden behind my house at night
and it talks to me. I would show it to you but it only comes out when I
am alone. Any attempts to trick it to do otherwise would be
unsuccessful, but you are certainly welcome to try and prove what I say
false.

[Edited by Chad Dirks on 02-15-2001 at 01:34 AM]


Posted by Ryan Murphy on 02-15-2001 02:41 AM

Buddy.. listen..

This is for all you other believers to:

Time travel may be possible, but if you were to time travel, you
would NOT land on Earth. You would land in a vacuum of space. You have
to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the
solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel
back through time, you’d materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in
2036, which is NOT Earth.. it’s space.

Get it? You’d be dead. It’s impossible.

Answer this factoid, John, and I will believe you until the ends of the Earth.


Posted by Dan Rouse on 02-15-2001 07:54 AM

Ryan…couldn’t distance be expressed as a function of time?

If that’s true, is it not possible that a time warp implies a space warp?


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-15-2001 08:07 AM

Heather, Ernie and others.. I did leave it at that. Haha. I posted
my opinion. That’s all I was doing. For the record, I have answered
Ernie’s letter offline due to the length of the response, and the fact
that it is offtopic to a great extent, I did not post it here.

I have nothing against John Titor, Ernie or anyone else. I’m simply
trying to get to the bottom of the story. Unless, and until John comes
forward with more information, my opinion is formed and won’t change.

I did however, post pictures of his time machine (actually, I posted
the link where you can find them.. let me be more specific, I’ve never
seen this thing in peson, though I would like to see it).

If John wants a way to prove anything – which from his previous
posts he has stated he DOESN’T WANT TO DO – then I am more than willing
to look over his proofs. However – just because I were to look
something over gives no more meaning to the rest of you than it would
if one of you looked his stuff over, believed it then told ME.

You see.. we live in a time when we must see to believe. All of us.

I think the thread is very interesting myself. I think the guy that
called us Sheep is wrong and it is folks like HIM that completely close
off education and communication. *I* am not trying to do so. I simply
made some statements that I don’t believe John is “for real”. If he is,
I would love to know he is. However, so far, he hasn’t put enough
evidence forward. So… PLEASE continue the thread and learn, if you
can, the truth.

That’s all *I* want.


Posted by Ryan Murphy on 02-15-2001 08:08 AM

It would be impossible to calculate where the Earth would be, either 30 years ago or 30 years from now.


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 08:28 AM

Hi All

I can see why Mr. Titor enjoys this.

You guys are pretty passionate about your beliefs. Then again, that’s what its all about.

Going over a few of the posts, and I say that they are full of the
classical – “I find it hard to believe, therefore I declare it to be
impossible” – types of postulates. I can see the levels you are
defining, in some cases, – and I can see that they are encompassed in
possibilities you are not considering

Ex.

—I find it very difficult to belive that a software tweak (hence
‘software engineers’, -software-) done to a 1975 machine could cause it
to do this translation more effectively or more portably than something
around even today. I find it almost impossible to believe that a tweak
done by a ‘software engineer’ in 1975 could provide for you something
that you could find at no other place between now and ‘your time’, and
certainly without having to make a stop-over in our time to get back
that far. —

Also, Ryan – I think John has provided some explanation regarding
how positionings are affected by the mass and gravity of known OBJECTS.
I would have to study the posts a little more carefully, though I would
say that the variables used in computing projected postionings, rely
heavily on detecting these known masses as opposed to trying to figure
out where they would end up in space (and time).

One of the first assumptions I would discard is that physics
suppositions are “either/or” proposals. My view (with a few years under
my belt), is that things work more fluidly than that.

In viewing the following models take into consideration that the
degrees I am talking about, are minuscule with respect to their effects
on human activity – that’s why the “10%-15%” divergence over some 60
years, sounds OK to me.

If you looked at a weather system of HIGH and LOW pressures, and
fronts, you would see isobaric “circles” that delineate common weather
areas. Correlate these fields, as local “areas” or “eras” of time.
Again the differences regarding how fast time “moves” in these
“circles”, would be slight and perhaps unnoticeable. They would be
enough, though, to provide “circles of common interaction” and
(significantly, I believe), would also provide some sort of common
playing field or “fabric” – for all the individuals within that area.
Moving into other regions or circles, would be fluid transistions (as
opposed to “either/or” transistions). I believe such a move would also
precipitate new experiences. You might then have to deal with, what
Terrence McKenna termed “DEGREES OF NOVELTY AND HABIT”. Moving into
other “topographical areas”, you would also have to “shift gears” …
your “sense of timing” would be a bit off, until you either found some
groove of activity that you could fall into, or until you could create
new ways of “being” and acting, to handle the new circumstances. The
effects of novelty could be noticed in little things like misteps and
mistakes, or unintended synchronicities that might seem to alter your
path. The effects of falling into normal routines would soon cause your
new environment to loose its “newness”.

Similarly, a geo-topological map (rings of altitudes) works the same in
depicting (minor) GRAVITATIONAL fields. Again, I would think the
degrees in gravitational differences, would be unnoticeably present,
though present non-the-less.

Within these geographical “circles” of time, and gravitational pulls,
people work out certain local and global destinies and intentions.
These then cumulate into cultural topologies.

Given this model, the “degrees of separation” can only have
extended effects depending on the interactivities of field compontents
(you and me, or even other living things). John’s interactions on these
boards probably have little effect on what’s going on in a small school
room in the Ukraine, or a in hospital grieving area outside of Tokyo,
at this very moment. They might have more of an effect on how you
handle you’re work day after spending a morning reading posts, though.
They might even have an effect on how a co-worker or fellow commuter
handles their evening after they’ve been around you.

Discussions regarding such potential realities do seem to be a good way
to get people to think – Its about time, after all <g>.


Posted by Lee Heggy on 02-15-2001 08:31 AM

It’s very possible to calculate such coordinates but you have to
have a reference point to start from that is static in relation to the
motion of the solar system and the rest of the universe. We know what
direction we are moving in. You merely have to plot the points along
that linear track. You would also want to be very careful and exact or
you would end up inside of a cow or worse.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-15-2001 08:31 AM

Actually, Ryan, that isn’t true.

I can, given the right software not only calculate the specific
location of the earth 30 years ago, where it will be thirty years
hence.

Based on the presumption that the sun is sitting still you can calculate the precise location of the earth at any time.

Given that the above is not true – that is the sun is traveling
through space at several thousand miles per second, as well, as the
planets moving about it, and the entire arm of the galaxy in which we
reside is moving as well… it is more difficult, BUT not impossible.

As Captain Kirk once said to his crew after the battle with Khan,
“he is thinking in two dimensions only”… we are thinking in three
only. The fourth, time, is traveling away from us as precisely the same
rate as it was a few moments ago. Given this we can calcuate the exact
location based on several factors, knowing the current location of the
sun, the past location of the sun and then figuring the future location
of the sun.

Given this, we know that our Eart travels in an ellipse around the
sun at a given speed over 365.25 days per year. That tells us the Earth
will be in a specific location 30 years from now.

Personally, I’ve taken tracking programs meant for satellites and
calulated the projected location of Near Earth Asteroids several times.
If *I* can do it, certainly an advanced computer from the future can
figure out where we are now.

Rick


Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-15-2001 10:05 AM

John,

How would someone that came here with no money all of the sudden
have plenty of money now? You could have brought the lowest
denomination coin of your time with a mint mark anywhere after 2001 and
probably convinced almost all of us. At least some people. It would be
hard to fake.


Posted by Simon Wiggins on 02-15-2001 10:35 AM

Cool

(1) Simply inscribe your knowledge of any large scale events
(disasters, discoveries, etc etc) over the next six months (there
should be at least one memorable example) into a text file.

(2) Encrypt said text file.

(3) Give text file to a custodian. I sure Art Bell would volunteer, he’s very interested in time travel.

(4) In six months time give Art the encryption key and he can reveal what you said.

Easy !

It doesn’t affect any timelines for that covered six months.

Art can’t peek, even if he wants to, which he probably would.

Thanks,

Simon.


Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-15-2001 10:41 AM

Does anybody here remember Marc Wade from the old BBS board. He was
the first time travler, if I remember right, he talked of a future
solcialistic, self supporting society as well, a ww3, millions die, and
so on, but I can’t remember what time he said he was from.


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 11:12 AM

I also remember “The Sun Is Not Real” in which a poster had me in
stitches with his theory that the present sun was switched to a
holographic representation, in the late 70′s? early 80′s.


Posted by Randy Empey on 02-15-2001 11:40 AM


Mr. Murphy —

If you are standing still on the surface of the earth, does the earth move away from you as the years progress?

It is not neccesary to calculate and then adjust for the exact location
of the earth realitive to some static frame of reference like the
center of the galaxy or some magic ‘origin’ point. Everything is
relative. A TT blessed with a TT-device capable of traveling through
time while standing still relative to the earth wouldn’t have to worry
much about where the earth would be 30 years into the future — because
he and his device are already moving in such a way that he will be in
the same place 30 years down the time axis.

Of course this is assuming that einstien’s physics was at least
accurate enough for such purposes. That is yet to be proven, but it has
held strong for more than half a
century, as a general case.

But the reality that makes his theory seem to work makes you argument next to moot.

John T. —

Are we having fun yet?

How ’bout some philosophy.

What is your conception of the nature of reality?

Is it subjective or objective?

Is there one grand reality, or is it ‘to each his own’?

Do you think there are any absolutes? If so, in which contexts?

Things of that nature . . . has our understanding (on the level of society you fit into) changed in these respects?

Does sin exist?

What happens when you die?

Etcetera Etcetera Etcetera . . .

— Randy E.

P.S. — Personally, I don’t understand why it is so important to the
people who post here that they believe you . . . communications, such
that they are, make perfect understanding between individuals dicey at
best . . . how can I be sure that something that is in my ‘reality’ is
in yours? How can anybody be sure of anything? Keep thinking . . . and
perhaps, share your thoughts with those here which read first and write
later.


Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-15-2001 11:45 AM

Smile

Hi all:

I’ve read Rick’s note and thank him for it. I have no animosity
towards Rick or anyone else. At the risk of being corrected I believe
Rick and I have worked out our difference of opinion. At least to my
satisfaction.

bye for now


Posted by John Titor on 02-15-2001 12:07 PM

My Motive:

I’ve been in your time a bit longer than I had expected. My next
opportunity to go home comes in the spring. For most of my adult life,
I have read about, wondered and debated about this time. I value this
opportunity to share experiences. If you absolutely believed I was a
time traveler, with no skepticism whatsoever, then we would be unable
to communicate. The focus of our attention would then always be on the
machine. The experiences, opinions and reasons you do things are just
as valid as mine and just as different. I hope to return home with a
better understanding of why you think and believe the way you do.
Although I do understand the reasons for asking, I won’t gain from any
communication with you by spouting physics formulas and pop culture
predictions. Please do not assume I am purposely avoiding questions. I
am human, I get tired, and I forget things. Please, just remind me if I
missed a question and I will get to it.

I do have one tip though. If you want me to go over your post in detail
put, “Hey John, you’re a big Jerk.” at the end of the insightful and
logical part, not the beginning. In fact, maybe you could just
abbreviate it and put a number rating from 1-100 next to it so I know
how strong you feel. Something like, HJYABJ (78). It would save space.

The Physics of Time Travel:

ACCELERATION = TIME DIALATION

As pointed out earlier, acceleration will produce time dilation.
This can be observed by the “twins paradox”. As one twin stays on
Earth, the other twin in his accelerating spaceship experiences a
slower passing of time. When he returns to Earth, he is noticeably
younger than his twin who aged normally in Earth time. This type of
“time travel” (should have been proven already on this worldline) with
atomic clock experiments. With sufficient power, this type of time
travel will only provide practical displacement in a future direction.
This type of time travel is also isolated to a single worldline. You
will not meet yourself.

GRAVITY = ACCELERATION

As Einstein pointed out with his STR, the effects of gravity and
acceleration are the same. Therefore, you will experience the same time
travel effects in the twin paradox by being close to a large gravity
source. In the atomic clock experiments mentioned above, the reason
there was a difference in time was not because the clock in the plane
was moving, it was because the clock in the well was closer to the
center of the Earth. Constant speed is not acceleration.

LARGE GRAVITY = STATIC BLACK HOLE

The next step is to find a large gravity source to use in your time
machine. Static black holes provide this type of power. As one twin
approaches the event horizon or edge of the black hole, the other twin
will watch him as he appears to slow down. He will notice his twin’s
watch run slower until it stops at the event horizon. The twin moving
toward the horizon will notice none of this and see his watch running
just fine. Although possible, a trip into a static black hole will not
take you to another worldline and it’s one-way. The force of gravity
will crush you.

ROTATING BLACK HOLE = DONUT-SHAPED SINGULARITY

Fortunately, most black holes are not static. They spin. Spinning
black holes are often referred to as Kerr black holes. A Kerr black
hole has two interesting properties. One, they have two event horizons
and two, the singularity is not a point, it looks more like a donut.
These odd properties also have a pronounced affect on the black hole’s
gravity. There are vectors where you can approach the singularity
without being crushed by gravity. (For those interested in seeing a
graphic of a photon trip through a Kerr black hole, try here)

http://qso.lanl.gov/~bromley/nu_nofun.html

DONUT-SHAPED SINGULARITY = PASSAGE INTO ALTERNATE WORLDLINE

Another other more interesting result of passing through a donut
singularity is that you travel through time by passing into another
universe or worldline. Please see Penrose diagrams for Kerr Black holes
or you can examine the calculations of Frank Tipler.

So now the problem becomes….where do we find a donut-shaped singularity?

A PONDERING HAWKING = MICROSINGULARITY

Steven Hawking proposed the existence of microsingularities that
were created in the big bang. They were probably about the size of a
proton and disappeared over the years due to an effect of radiation
evaporation. (Yes, black holes do emit energy.)

HIGH ENERGY PHYSICS = ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY

When I first started posting online a few months ago, I said that
major breakthroughs in particle physics were around your corner. Soon,
CERN will bring their big machine on line and they will be smashing
very fast and high-energy particles together. One of the more odd and
potentially dangerous items produced from this incease in energy will
be microsingularities a fraction of the size of an electron. (for those
who would like to follow the developments at CERN)

http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/Welcome.html

ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELD

Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and
capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 – 500 megawatts),
it’s discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and
captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified
singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various
microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.

LOCALIZED KERR FIELD = TIPLER SINUSOID

By using two microsingularites in close proximity to each other, it
is possible to create, manipulate and alter the Kerr fields to create a
Tipler gravity sinusoid. This field can be adjusted, rotated and moved
in order to simulate the movement of mass through a donut-shaped
singularity and into an alternate world line. Thus, safe time travel.

I will continue with the individual posts next. Thank you for your patience.


Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-15-2001 12:42 PM

Question

Hi John:

Is this what I think it is?

ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELD

Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and
capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 – 500 megawatts),
it’s discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and
captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified
singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various
microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.

It looks like a prediction. Is it.

Best regards,

Ernie


Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-15-2001 01:04 PM

i would first like to state that i for one have never said you’re an
idiot – i said you are aggravating. which is not really a personal
problem w/yourself it is just how i perceive you to be. an adjective -
not a noun.

this sentence bothers me:

“Although I do understand the reasons for asking, I won’t gain from any
communication with you by spouting physics formulas and pop culture
predictions.”

so that’s what this is all about? you come here & want us to
“help” you by asking questions.. so you can figure out how -we-
percieve things & why we think the way we do but you do not
recipricate the efforts. you only discuss things that you care about or
that -you- think are important or that -you- think you will “gain”
something from. seems rather -one-sided- to me.

you say:

“The experiences, opinions and reasons you do things are just as
valid as mine and just as different. I hope to return home with a
better understanding of why you think and believe the way you do. “

so you return home w/a better understanding while we’re left here
w/the same questions we had before? it doesn’t seem very beneficial to
-us-..just to -you- (atleast from your statements).

-blonnie-


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 04:13 PM

If all the idealists who have traveled the path of confronting
sceptics, were laid end to end … ?they’d be better off that way?

Where are we in the universe BTW, irrespective of our relation to surrounding physical masses.

The galaxy, and us with it, is traveling at ~ 390 km/sec. The Local
Group, superclusters … and on out… how fast are they traveling?
With respect to what? Last time I looked at the moon there were no
strings attached either. It just sort of sits out there and whirs
around, kinda like we do… or at least as I do. Pretty trick, if’n
anyone’s asking.

John – Ever have any oldsters (60-80 year olds) come up to you and mention past correspondences?

Take Care All!


Posted by John Titor on 02-15-2001 05:06 PM

The following are personal rules I try to keep(unless of course they
conflict with my secret agenda). I look forward to discussing any
discrepancies you may find.

PERSONAL RULES FOR TEMPORAL DISCLOSURE:

(1). I will not disclose any information that will cause someone to personally gain by its knowledge.

(2). I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability.

(3). I will not disclose any information that may compromise any future
actions by individual people or threaten their family and well-being.

BLONNIE:

Thank you for your persistence and patience. It would appear some of my
more sarcastic comments are directed at you. They are not and I
apologize.

((so i am asking questions that can NOT be changed. someone can not
change the fact that “Girly G. Hottie” is the next big name in
showbusiness))

Rule 3 – Your future is not unchangeable? Why couldn’t harm may
come to a person if I define them as someone who will do something in
the future? However, in this case, I just don’t know. I am not familiar
with pop culture in 2001.

((“keep an eye out for so-and-so..they will rise to fame.” or something like that. we couldn’t -change- that..))

I find this an interesting point you’ve made again. Why do you feel that would be unchangeable?

CRAIG:

((Are you being obtuse about Bonnie’s inquiries for more personal
reasons? Her logic is pretty sound, and you’re avoiding discussing some
of the things that people naturally find curious about other
cultures…))

I very much want to discuss our cultures but please help me
understand how you won’t be able to change something I tell you
happened on my worldine.

((What kind of music is popular, what kind of recreation is enjoyable, what holidays are important…))

I’m not sure if you wanted to discuss these or not. If yes, I will be happy to do that.

((Do you feel some pleasure in breathing clean air and not having to check a geiger counter every few miles?))

Yes I do. However there is a fear about being here that I can only
define as uncertainty. When I walk around in 2001, the air smells clean
but I wonder if it really is. In 2036, there is no gray. The air is
either clean or it will kill you. That feeling is very overwhelming
when I eat here.

((Are there people in this time period who are hip (aware) of Time Travelers and who accept you as one?))

I have a very few precious relationships with people online who
accept me as real or crazy and don’t ask any questions. Much of my
email flows through them. My parents are the only ones that have access
to everything I could use to prove who I am.

((I would imagine there are folk in our time, who travel in different
circles (out of the mainstream), who have some money and/or some power,
and who know things that the rest of us do not. Are you, or others, in
touch with people like that? How ARE you financing things?))

I have taken very clever and reliable measures to go undetected.
Yes, there are probably people like that but I am not in active
conversation with them. My expenses are not that large. I spend a great
deal of time now archiving.

JEFFERY:

((I spotted few typing errors in Johns comments so I will assume that he has had an average education by our standards))

You must be energized and anxious to improve your education system then. Please tell me what you plan to do.

((1. Name the immediate political succeosor’s to George Bush and Tony Blair.)) – RULE 3

((2. Name any human being/animal/invention which became famous from
obscurity prior to today (This is really easy, just name anyone who
shot to fame for anything – provided they are completely unknown now,
and that it happens soon).) – RULE 2, RULE 3

((3. Name any near future shock event that makes history -
political assasinations, inventions, marriages etc, same rules – it
should happen soon with nobody having a clue it was about to happen
(exept maybe time-travellers).)

You mean other than the mad cow pandemic, the breakthroughs in
high-energy physics and the unknown functions of the 5100? I realize
I’ve only been on this board for a few weeks but I assume you’ve read
the other postings I’ve made about these issues months ago in order to
be so definitive.

((4. If you are older than 36 then there should be 2 of you here
right now. You would both possess the same basic fingerprints and DNA.
If you really want to prove your case then meet up with your younger
self and get some police evidence.))

I am with my younger self. I don’t have a case to prove and I
wonder how many needles I would be on the receiving end for that one.
With your superior education, I assume you already figured out that
pretty soon someone might try that with a clone. Be careful what you
take for definitive proof.

ANGEL:

If he had a time traveler line open would you call in?

((How long will you be here in 2001? When are you going back?))

My first opportunity to go home is this spring.

((What all are you taking back with you?))

A lot of hard drives filled with books, archived web sites,
pictures and audio files. I’m also taking back family items that were
lost in the war.

((Is propane still around in the future?))

Yes but not very much of it comes from natural gas. Hydrogen is converted into propane because it’s easier to handle.

ROY:

((I would hope that the paradise I live in would somehow be spared
(the Hawaiian Islands) but I suspect it would not be spared as a
strategic target for obvious reasons))

My parents went to Hawaii on their Honeymoon. My dad told me a
quick story about going to a fast food store and paying 6 or 7 dollars
for a hamburger. I got an image in my head of a huge tanker filled with
frozen hamburgers headed into the Pacific. Hawaii is very dependant on
the mainland for food….isn’t it?

Thank you for your kind words.

MIKE:

((Logically though the revelation of his TT ability still makes no
sense, as he could easily question people of this time and get all
sorts of info without revealing himself.))

Medium like the internet offer unique opportunities for
communication. When I return, I will be debriefed on my opinions about
how people in 2001 will accept time travelers.

((So that leads to the question why would he reveal himself if he has no stated aganda for doing so?))

I’m not sure I exactly said that.

((2. John came here to give somebody a “Back to the Future” type of
push so as to invent the Time Machine. (My opinion on this is that no
one needs to “invent” the TM because if is has been built in the future
then it has always been invented, and we are merely waiting for someone
to “discover” it. Just look back at most of the major advancements in
science, almost every invention of science already existed, it only
needed people to put it together.
About the only things humans have invented deal in the arts. Music etc.
This opinion comes from the “all times exist at once” theory.))

I find this one the most interesting. What do you think would
happen if the United States, China or Russia suddenly developed a time
machine and the rest of the world found out about it?

MY FRIEND JAVIER:

((…he does a maneuver that focuses the question back to the
receiver, as to have him think it’s been answered, and to shut him up.
(Which in fact, he just avoided answering it, by doing what he did). He
does this very often, and I’d just wanted to point that out before he
did it again.))

Hmmm….I am forced to admit I must rethink what I know about Mobius loops.

ANDREW:

((1) Does the last name hubbard have any historical(is that the right term?) relevance?))

You may leave a message to yourself if you wish.

((2) What happens with Australia? does it play a major part in the war?))

I believed I wrote about Australia a bit earlier.

((3) What colloquial language is used in the future?))

Many people use the internet for communication and entertainment. I would say that affects our speech. We type very fast.

((4) What exactly happens to the water? does it get poisoned from radiation?))

Yes, radiation affected the water but that can always be distilled
out. There are biological hazards that cannot. In addition, fresh water
is hard to come by without talking to someone with a gun first.

((5) Have you actually met your parents? if so, what are their thoughts on you? ))

Yes. I am with them now. I would say it’s a combination of fear and relief.

((6) Does time have ends?))

Yes. It is believed that all worldlines end. It is also thought that
parallel worldlines that appear to be the same end at different times.

((7) Lets just say that people from the future are manipulating events
now, such as preventing a tragedy, making it never occur. If it never
occurred, no body would be sent back to stop it, which would mean that
the event does take place. This would lead to the prevention of it
happening again, and so on. What would happen in one of these
situations?))

Based on my understanding of time, manipulation of your worldline
by future time travelers would have no affect on their original or home
worldline. If that is happening, it must be for a desired outcome or
result on your worldline only. If UFOs are time travelers, they plan on
reaping what they sew from you not their home.

RYAN

((John, if you really did travel through time you’d be dead. You
have to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth,
the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did
travel back through time, you’d materialize in 1970 where the Earth
WILL be in 2036, which is the vacuum of space.))

This is an excellent point and one I thought I went over a bit
earlier. There is a gravity lock system that compensates for the local
gravity outside of the Tipler sinusoid. This is the reason the unit is
only accurate to about 60 years.

RICK:

((Specifically, you stated my questions were “rather specific” and
you’d be “love to discuss physics and happy to walk through the
operation (I assume of the machine)”. A few lines later you state
(after me saying you should know a hell of a lot more about the
machines you’re operating) that you do know much about it, but you’re
not willing to share it with everyone. So… which is it? Are you
willing to share information on the operation, a walkthrough of the
machine, time travel… or AREN’T YOU?))

I suppose I am thinking about the physics and the engineering as
separate subjects. I apologize for the confusion and I will be happy to
answer your questions more directly.

((I asked legitimate questions. They were ignored, then later, when I asked others, they were skirted.))

Perhaps we could just start over again?

ANDREW:

((1) What role does Australia play in the war? You stated elsewhere
that they repulse a Chinese invasion – Does this mean Australian
government side with your enemy? (As I think I recall you stating that
they allied with your side + Russia… Could be wrong though.))

There were deep divisions in Australia also. I would associate it more with a powder keg than a civil war.

((2) Does intercontinental transportation still exist? If so, have you visited other countries?))

Yes, but the market is much smaller. No, I have not been overseas.

Page 12 on coming…


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-15-2001 07:53 PM

Wink

John,

What state do you live in now in 2001?

Is John Titor your real name?

What do you look like? Post a picture of your self.

What is your secret agenda?

Is this dialogue between people in these posts part of your secret agenda?

Does your younger self realize what you are?

Are you married?

What rank were you in the Army?

Where did you go to BCT?

What company were you with, and what year did you graduate from BCT?

You have any fears? If so, what are they?

What are the rules for fraternizing with people who aren’t from your time; do you make friends easily here in 2001?

What would the DOD do to you if they found you out?

What would you do if someone attempted to investigate you? Hundreds
of people go through these forums a day I’m sure. Some of which can be
government. Aren’t you at all worried that it’s only a matter of time
before you are found out?

And you said; “I very much want to discuss our cultures but please
help me understand how you won’t be able to change something I tell you
happened on my worldine.”

Can you elaborate further on the matter?

I appreciate you answering these questions for me John, and thank you for calling me your friend .

-Javier C.

HJYABJ 100


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-16-2001 08:00 AM

John,

I want you to understand something – since you’re using our
discussions to make a determination of our thinking for when you go
back. Understand that I don’t think you’re a jerk, but I believe you to
be a “false time traveler” at this point. HOWEVER, I will say that you
took the time to post some information that DOES answer some of my
questions. Your disertation on physics (at least in a small way)
confirms a few things that I think are relatively accurate.

Are the pictures (at the URL I posted a couple days ago) YOUR
pictures of your time machine?
(http://pub2.ezboard.com/fmagisystemstimelordsanonymus.showMessage?topicID=53.topic)

I’m going to help John answer a question that someone else asked. “What would the DOD do to you if they found you out?”

John would be grabbed by government federal agents and held
incognito until a determination could be made based on national
security. He certainly would be at risk of his life in “all
probability” because he IS (will be/was – put in any decriptors based
on tense you wish) a threat to national security in “our time”.

Here is why. John claims to come from a different time, our future
time actually. Even though it is perhaps a different time thread, or
time line, he could affect the outcome of our own future either through
active participation or negligent participation. In other words, Johns
actions could conceivable make a difference what happens. This is the
main reason he is following some very specific “non interference”
doctrine.

The very fact that John has made himself “visible” to the users
here makes him a target. Believe it or not – *I* work for the
government. I work in an area that, while my particular job has nothing
to do with this, am extremely interested in his statements. Yes – we in
the government DO watch for things like this. However, rest assured, if
I went to the security office and said “I have access to a time
traveler” I’d get laughed at. I’d have to get in touch with the “right
people” to “report” the incident, and even then the skeptics would over
rule the “believers”.

What this means is, even though John could be consider a national
security threat, he certainly is safer than even me, who works daily in
government facilities.

Now that I have admitted my “government participation” let me tell
you MY motive. Time travel. Afew days ago, someone sent me a copy of a
time travel ad. I was intrigued by this. The ad, mysteriously appeared
on Art Bells site last night. (Go there and look at it – you will see
precisely what I saw). I have drafted a letter indicating I’m
interested. Yes, I have my own weapons (and a family, grandkids and
kids ) but… if I had a chance to go back in time, I would take it.
Assuming I could get back. haha.

My problem is that I would “interact” I believe. I would find the
idea of interaction almost irresistable, which I would assume is one of
the things psychologists would have a problem with time travelers in
any case.

The US government… Russian or any other, would be in the same
boat. They would, if they could believe it, GRAB and hold time
travelers – checking the veracity of their stories and preventing them
from having any interaction with anyone.

Sound about right John?

I have a distinct feeling that I want to “believe” that John is
truly a time traveler. The reason is simple and probably selfish. I
have always said I want to live to see the ripe old age of 200. I MIGHT
make it to 150 given todays medical advancements. If so, I have around
107 years to go. I can’t wait to see what the future holds.

I want to LIVE time though, I don’t want to go to the future and not be
able to get back to my family and friends. I want to see that something
so fantastic and so outlandish that it is science fiction right now,
come true.

Those are MY motives for being here, chatting about this.

Granted, there are deeper, more scientific discussions on other
boards and elsewhere in the scientific community, but they are “deeper”
than I wish to delve. John has given me at least that tiny hope that
somewhere out there, on some time line, someone will indeed do what
we’ve been believing all along.

So – John, my comments about being fraudulent – please don’t take
them seriously and please do not think I have anything against you
personally, nor wish to discredit you. I only want the honest truth.

If you tomorrow, said, Rick, this was an experiment in psychology,
writing, or fantasy – whatever, I would not be surprised. If I had a
way to prove you were truly a time traveler – that secret would be safe
with me (as would anything else you told me). See, I believe in
America, and I believe in Freedom.

I believe if you’re really what you say you are – then you’re a
hope for the future. Even if there is ‘civil war’ or nuclear war -
people like myself are already prepared for those things.

Whatever comes of this… best of luck in either your studies in psychology, time travel or writing. I’ll be listening in (and commenting) from time to time.

Rick


Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-16-2001 10:26 AM

Thumbs up

Hi Rick, John, all:

I also found John’s post regading the specifics to be beyond much contention. My scale is tipping toward belief.

I’ll say this much. The descriptions John provided are much more
convincing than his ability to write a given equation. I think I
understand why Rick was impressed as I know a bit more about Rick today
than I did 2 days ago I mean his technical background.

Here is my opinion.

John thus far has demontrated the following:

Ability to discuss physics that seems to rise (eventually) to the level of the question posed.

High degree of intelligence.

Has not wavered in his ethical assertions regarding (verifyable) disclosure of future events.

No interest in making money for this (so far)

Continuity of statements (not 100%, but he’s human)

Accurate cultural behaviour for a person from the world he claims to come from.

Has “I believe” made more than 1 verifyable prediction. (I think) correct me if I misunderstood his post.

Patience

A degree of loyalty to his country, and for democracy not found every day. He has read the Constitution and understood it. IMHO

Hinted that he may have had something to do with recent events that did not come to pass.

An accurate depiction of the climate that would escalate to the wars and events he describes.

Made statements that contradict many other Time Traveller’s

Statements.

Has attempted to answer most of what is asked of him.

The ability to accurately relate a story as if he had been there.

A great deal of self control when “questioned”.

(for you Rick

In general has been a very good thread host.

None of this proves he’s a time traveller, but it does prove to me that
I should continue to read the posts, and ask further question.

As someone recently mentioned a preponderance of circumstantial evidence builds credibility.

I have a question for John:

John, what would it take to get you to stick around after spring and leave during the next window of opportunity?

I fear that another month or 2 may not be enough time to get as much said and discussed as I would like to have.

Regarding the photos. I have asked 6 friends that have been in the
military and “whatever” the device is in the photo looks very
authentic. The manual also is what you would expect from the military.
The revisions on the cover page look normal for such a manual. Maybe
Rick can take a close look at the photos. Has anyone done any imaging
on the photos to make the individual controls on the “machine” more
visible.

In your “world time” have things like “Saquatch” , “Loch Ness
monster”, and other reported unusual animals been seen, or captured or
explained away.

Is remote viewing used to gather military intelligence?

Are psychics still common? are they used by the government?

Is there a Police Dept as we know it. Have any of your top leaders or politicians been jailed or impeached?

John, any chance of getting a better set of photos with more of the manual?.

John please respond to my question as to “the prediction” did I jump the Gun? (get ahead of myself).

One final question? Is there a Global Superpower state and what nation is it.

Best regards,

Ernie


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-16-2001 10:48 AM

I think I understand. I guess you are held accountable, in some way,
for changes that occur in your time period. You would know, and I guess
no one else has to. Let me see if I get this. You tell me about a new
cultural fad – for instance, let’s say Czech Dance Wear, becomes chic.
I keep my eye on trends, and invest, in a way that benefits me, at the
exclusion of someone else. OR I open a shop that begins the trend and
then trend burns out sooner than it otherwise would. Then you, on your
time-line, notice, when you get back, that the weekly dance at the
local Youth Hall is no longer centered around Czech Bouncing, for the
summer of ’36. Instead, for some quirky reason, Cowboy Line Dancing
appeals to everyone for a few weeks or months during this period.
Otherwise everything else remains relatively unchanged.

Please answer this question to the best of your ability to assist
us. I’m a big believer in grassroots resourcefulness, and its power in
creating discerning situations that test people’s willingness and
ability to make their own way.

It seems to me that with the cities under such stresses, people would
flock in large numbers to remote areas like Winnipeg (sorry guys) or
some other region with plenty of clean water, air and soil. Why is this
such a nelected fix? I would also imagine that the network of
Intentional Communities (communes?) that took root over the years,
would provide infrastructural support to a nation needing to find its
“FOXFIRE” roots.

If I was transposed to the 1920′s or 30′s, you would have a hard
time keeping me off the streets, out of public places, shops, concert
halls, etc. just trying to take it all in. Ditto with just about any
other time and place.

Which reminds me of an old story about the TT who saw a sign
outside a restaurant that said “Breakfast served any time”. He
eventually settled on eggs benedict during the Renaissance.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-16-2001 11:35 AM

It is interesting to note that the photos posted on that other site
were posted by an “anonomyous time traveler” some time back. It fits
the exact description John has give us of his machine. Therefore, based
on his discription alone, I would say he is the one that posted the
pictures. If he didn’t post them, then he is using them for the basis
of his story.

Regardless of the two supositions above, the device appears to be
“authentic” to me. I have some experts looking at the manual and the
pictures as well – for obvious reasons, I won’t tell you who because
they aren’t aware of this discussion and I don’t intend to tell them
about it.

I am extremely familiar with military spec equipment in many forms,
more specifically communications systems of various types. I have never
seen this particular item (in my time…
) nor anything vaguely resembling it. HOWEVER, it does have the look
and feel of a piece of gear produced by a large corporation for the
military.

John – in looking closely at this device, I see there is a hand
control unit – with some sort of screen on it. I assume this is the
computer interface through which the device is programmed (or time
settings are made). Is that an accurate assumption? What does the
display show you (for instance, does it simply show things like
time/date calculations, or radiation [probably wrong word] of the
fields from the device?)

Also, there are 16 apparent buttons. I have to assume further that
these are multifunction keys (that is you press one for an alt/control
function and other buttons have names or labels and perhaps even
numerical meanings). Is that also accurate?

thanks


Posted by Doug Beauchamp on 02-16-2001 05:38 PM

At the very begginning of this thread, I was very skeptical. Who
wouldn’t be on a topic like this? However, I find myself believing it
even more with each page. What I find strange is why so many people
don’t believe. I think we’ve established that a majority of us do
believe time travel a possibility. Most of us also believe that the
human race does indeed learn how to travel to time sometime in the
future. If we believe this, then why do we find it so hard to believe
that there are people from the future among us? If John is not a time
traveler, then he’s a **** good lier. There are minor flaws in his
stories, but I think there are more strengths than flaws. Maybe I just
believe his story because I want to (selective belief).

As for the issue of security, I think Rick covered it all. I don’t
think the government would be as open-minded to this topic as some of
us. Unless John proved he was a time traveler, I don’t think anyone
will be using his IP to track him. Which is a reason I don’t think John
can be proving to us that he is indeed a TT. (Maybe that’s one of the
lessons in TT training.) Unless there is a branch of the FBI similar to
the X-Files, I doubt anyone will be knocking on Johns door anytime soon.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-16-2001 08:48 PM

So John, when do you plan on answering my questions?

Is there a problem in answering?

Please let me know…. I await you.

-Javier C.

Sysop: We do not provide links to other boards, Sorry. Peace, Mary

[Edited by Mary Rowland on 02-16-2001 at 09:19 PM]


Posted by Tim Utterback on 02-16-2001 10:17 PM

Wink

Hey John. If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance. Then baffle them with BS!!!


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-17-2001 12:10 AM

Man, that’s the second time someones edited out my posts. But that’s not important, what is, is your answers John.

I’m still waiting. So far it’s been 48 hours. What’s wrong? Are you unable to answer?


Posted by Roy Meserve on 02-17-2001 11:13 AM

Hello,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, unfortunately Hawai’i is quite

tied to the fate of the mainland US in major ways. Efforts

at some amicable sovereignty are halting or stillborn.

Just wanted to recommend a book I think might tell you volumes about present macro socio-economic conditions that

lay the foundation for the evolving political divisions you

state lead to a civil war in the US in the near future.

The book is “When Corporations Rule the World” by John C. Korten.

While certainly not the only important work or view of this

present paradigm, behind the ‘sturm und drang’ of partisan

noise and distraction, this well-written and researched book

by a dedicated veteran of more than 30 years abroad in var-

ious aid and developmental programs aimed at Third world areas, squarely focuses on the escalating comglomeration of

power and money increasingly in the hands of the few and the

resulting loss of control over individual and community autonomy. Now,
in the twilight of the 21st century, this locus of capital, political
influence and media control is taking on a life of its own, out of the
control of even those at the top of the command heirarchy, with
concommitant

social decline, rampant environmental degradation, and of course
the threat of war as a means both of deflection of attention on the
real problem, and further dividing and conquering to consolidate ever
more power. No black hats and white hats, per se, but more the result
of unthinking accep-

tance of a certain economic model at the root.

This is why I feel there is a kind of inevitability to some

sort of wrenching change, whether or not it follows ‘your’

probable outcome. Another older book by a similar ‘dissoc-

iated’ entity that might interest you is “The Nature of Per-

sonal Reality” by Jane Roberts (circa 1979-80). From a ghost

no less! Both can be found at the public library, but are worth perusal. Submitted humbly in the spirit of apocalypse

or (Greek)- ‘unveiling’….

regards,

Roy


Posted by Andrew Hubbard on 02-17-2001 08:40 PM

1) would you be able to internationally travel by:

travelling to the year 2001, fly a plane to the desired destination, and then go to the future from there?

2)If each world line is seperate from the others, then wouldn’t the
consequences of your actions now have no effect on your original
worldline? If this is the case, why won’t you tell us things that will
give us knowledge or let us avoid death? My only geuss is that you are
not a time traveller, and don’t want to say anything that could make a
gullable person do something stupid.

3) how can I leave a message for myself in the future if the things i do in this worldline do not effect the others?


Posted by Michael E. Hendrickson on 02-18-2001 08:03 AM

The falsity of your claims is revealed in your predicted scenario
for our country in the years 2004-2012,i.e., a virtual collapse of our
constitutional system into a waring

divide between the cities and the countrysides, with a farmer
general leading the latter to victory in 2012, presumably, after a
horrendous, internecine struggle. I believe in fact this describes a
plot in one or more

science fiction novels written in the past 50 years.

This scenario could plausibly describe events which, perhaps,

might occur 100 years from now, or even much further in

the future, but most certainly not commencing a mere

three years from now. A breakdown of this magnitude would’ve

had to have been preceded by many more fracturing events other than
Ruby Ridge, Waco,the Oaklahoma bombing,etc., over a much longer period
of time in order to culminate in your predicted scenario.

Given what we know about our society today with its

very stable system of government(however else you may

wish to describe it), your prediction of its pending

disintegration, beginning in three short years, is utterly improbable, if not impossible. Hmm., I’m, trying to

think, was it Asimov or Kurt Vonnegut Jr. who originally authored this scenario? MH

P.S. The idea of a farmer general leaving his fields to

lead his country’s troops to victory is an old one going

back, at least, to Roman times. Lucius Quintus Cincinnatus,

I believe, was the gentleman’s name, from the 5th Century B.C. Roman Republic.

[Edited by Michael E. Hendrickson on 02-18-2001 at 08:28 AM]


Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-18-2001 11:06 AM

The recent film “Gladiator” featured Maximus a farmer general who defeated a “fictionalized” Commodus.

I guess if you asked Joseph Campbell there are only a few stories
and all literature is the re-telling of the same few stories in
different settings.

Boy saves girl

Boy saves the nation

Girl dies boy avenges

Boy gets girl usually another boy loses girl.

Underdog defeats the champ. David and Goliath, farmer general

Good boy goes bad

bad boy goes good

and a few more.

there are a few that’s all then we just enhance the content to fit our cultural needs.

Peace


Posted by Randy Empey on 02-18-2001 11:36 AM

Mr. Vega and Mr. Hendrickson:

The wonderful ability for the human mind to group things by
simularities, generalize, and vaguely remember stories heard in the
past exists.

But it is not conclusive proof of the falsity of anybodies claims.

I, as an attempted-authorer (pretty simular to being an
attempted-murderer), have ran into the ‘universal hero myth’ dillema
face to face, in mental combat to the death . . . and have yet to
arrise victorious . . . but it does not mean I have no good stories to
tell, nor that they are unoriginal. And it certainly doesn’t mean that
any story I may come up with is most definetly not true . . .

I am fairly certain that proving anything is impossible. (By this I
mean proving ABSOLUTELY . . . within certain frameworks, like
mathematics, things can be proven . . . but in general? I think not. In
what we call ‘reality’? I also think not. Life would be too simple.)

If this is true, and I think it is, it also follows that it is
impossilbe to disprove anything — although the two are often different
problems.

So the ongoing ‘discussion’ about the veracity of this TT’s claims
is largely in vain. Good works may yet come from it, but I am sure
there are better ways to spend this thread. John has already suggested
this, it seems to me, and I believe it is everybody’s best interest to
recognize that we have never been in the realm of absolutes and that
the main goal here is the intelligent exchange of ideas, observations,
insights and ‘feelings’.

Just because a plot appears often in the worlds portrayed in
science fiction doesn’t preclude them from being what you seem to
consider science fact.

Spacecraft are a prime example of this.

Timecraft ARE ALSO!

The mind is the ultimate vessel for any kind of exploration . . .
lets please direct our miranderings a little more effectively even on
this micro level, . . . if only to please my aesthetic sense!

I’m sure we will all be a lot happier and the fruits will then be better.


Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-18-2001 02:56 PM

Cool

Hi all:

Randy, although I remain to be convinced as to the nature of John
or his story. I have never said he was a fake or a fraud, or a liar,
actually, I expressed frustration at the seemingly all important “is he
or isn’t he” debate.

I propose that “what John is” is irrelevant to this conversation.
What is relevant is the ideas, and very good technical information
being discussed here. I can tell you that I’m sure that some of the
posters know more about time travel and it’s why’s and why nots, than
they did prior to coming here.

The real interesting conversation has been about the culture he describes, and the way they approach life.

My comment regarding story lines is accurate. It does not however,
detract from any literary work. It also had no connection to John
Titor, I was actually disagreeing with the previous poster that stated
that the Farmer General metaphor somehow was indicative of deception on
Johns part, or a weak link in his story. The Farmer General is nothing
new. History is replete with Farmer Generals.

I was pointing out to him the “preponderance” of similarity that
exists in the area of “plot development”. As an author you must have at
times asked yourself if the scene you were creating did not sound too
much like “this”, or “that”.

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify the point.

Oh one more thing.

You say

The mind is the ultimate vessel for any kind of exploration . . .
lets please direct our miranderings a little more effectively even on
this micro level, . . . if only to please my aesthetic sense!

Please excuse me if I misuderstood but neither I nor anyone else here
is going direct their meanderings in any direction to please “your”
sense of Aesthetics.

As soon as you become a moderator here you can dictate whatever
you want. Remember that whatever you post will most likely get a
response.

By the way “effective meandering” is a poor choice of metaphor, you see it’s a borderline oximoron.

Peace

[Edited by Ernie Vega on 02-18-2001 at 03:24 PM]


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-18-2001 11:04 PM

Smile

OK John, I know your playing this Machiavelli role again, of going
silent and hiding. But just wanted to let you know, that when you do
return, answer my questions first. I asked first. So don’t avoid
answering my questions. Got that ?

-Javier C.


Posted by Lola Montez on 02-19-2001 12:23 AM

Hello,

To John Titor:

I have found this thread very interesting. How far from what size city
is it the safest to be? You suggest bicycle. What about horseback?
Should we be stockpiling guns? What kind of people will be the ones
least trustworthy? Is the conflict racial in any way? Does the civil
war start in such a way that with this foreknowledge those willing will
have time to remove themselves to safer locations. Will you readily be
able to identify the enemy. Does living near a river with a
distillation unit take care of water problems? How are the five people
within the 100 miles contacted? Do communications stay intact. I have
86 acres on a river in Central California about 125 miles north of LA.
I have geese, turkeys, horses, chickens, milk cows, good pasture, a
well run by electricity, and a garden. I also have two teenage sons who
are gun nuts. Plenty of rifles, semi-automatic and otherwise. Any
comment on our chances or suggestions? My oldest son, 19, is joining
the army for 3 years. Will he be asked to kill his countrymen?
I look forward to hearing from you.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 02-19-2001 01:22 AM

John,

Sometime earlier you wrote that there are no paradoxes in time tavel. I
have a question regarding a paradox that I can’t seem to overcome.
Maybe you can help.

People who posit theories of time travel generally write in terms
of time travel in years. My problem deals with very short trips – the
kind that early experimenters would most likely attempt (to avoid
divergence problems if nothing else).

In this experiment the traveller only goes 30 seconds into the past
to appear in his lab. It seems that 30 seconds before his experiment
was to begin he saw himself apppear in the lab. There would now be two
travellers and two time machines. It doesn’t appear that it ends that
simply as the “second” time traveller says that he saw a duplicate self
appear in the lab thirty seconds before he started the trip. It would
appear that its a time loop and an infinite number of duplicates see a
duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds prior to the start of
the trip.

Your time machine weighs 500 lbs and an average man weighs about
180 lbs. So lets say that that the mass is about 700 lbs per traveller.
What is the mass of the duplicates and where did the mass come from?
What is the result of the duplicates arriving ~simultaneously at the
~same place and time? How long will it take for the loop to decay? Will
it decay? Is it a loop? What happens if the experimenter, upon seeing
his duplicate, decides not to continue the experiment?


Posted by Randy Empey on 02-19-2001 07:52 AM

Mr. Vega, I excuse you as you ask. Complete understanding between
seperate entities in this world is likely an impossibility. I claim no
such moderatorship — I was just attempting to appeal to everybodies
sense of ‘proper actions during mutually-benificial social
interactions’ (I hate it when I can’t find the right, single word to
say what I want to say . . .) . . . attempting to phrase it in a way
that hasn’t already been said here . . . obviously, at least in your
case, it back fired. I still feel its a good sentiment.

“Effective meandering” appealed to me for exact reason which seems
to make you feel it was a poor metaphor. It has the meaning I intend,
as I know the language.

———

John T:

Since you are stockpiling examples of written word from this time,
whether to bring back to the future or for sources in your own written
endeavours, I suggest you make this a two way street — you take our
words, so lets have some more of yours.

Do you remember any poetry or verse from after 2001 in your past?

Is there an active market on new books in your time, or has that
infranstructure not rebuilt it self? Are most the books available old
or new?

Out of curiosity, as a rough judge of character, have you read the works of J.R.R. Tolkien? And did you enjoy them.

Actually, this all boils down to the question the last few posters have been getting at — R U THERE?

All -

Even if John never posts again, this thread would still seem to be
useful . . . there is enough conflict here to make it good drama.

I think time-travel is possible . . . others among us think its
impossible . . . there are other threads where battles in this war are
fought . . . but this particular theatre is far from over.


Posted by John Titor on 02-19-2001 11:03 AM

CHAD:

((1. You have claimed several times that you will not participate in
assisting anyone to get out of ‘death by probability’. Yet any number
of the things that you have said could have already caused an
individual to do or not do something that will now result in them
either dying, or escaping death an otherwise fated death.))

It would help if you could give an example. If you are referring to
the conflict and war in your future, I’m not sure I’m specific enough
to help any individuals avoid anything. Suggesting there is a war
coming is a bit different than saying avoid Washington DC at 3:45 AM on
March 12, 2015.

((There is no way for you to know if there is no future world leader reading this and believing.))

Are you sure about that? Besides, I think you can have just as much impact as any “future leader”.

((2. You claim that you have no interest in proving to us that you
are a time-traveller. To hear you take such a stance is laughable. Look
at what a show you have put on here. Instead you tell us that you only
wish us to make us aware of time-travel as a possiblity (see #1 again),
or that you only wish to observe us and speak of cultural and religious
issues, something interesting to a historian.))

I submit there is no way for me to prove anything on the internet,
therefore it makes no sense to desire it. What exactly do you think I
could do to prove it to anyone? I am confused by your term “the show”.
Do you feel my only goal here is to entertain?

((You came and posted on this site with one intention that was
clear as of your first post: to make us believe that you are a
time-traveller. You have continued this thread for that purpose alone,
and I find everything you have done supports this.))

Again, I am unable to make you do anything nor would I want that.

((As far as wishing to speak of issues regarding our humanity, or
culture, it is quite clear that this is not your intention (contrary to
what you insist). If you truly wished to do this your first line would
not have been, ‘I am a time-traveller’. If you truly wished to do this
you would not have continued this thread once you realized that line
would not serve your claimed goals.))

I learn a great deal about your culture from the words you write (like right now). What do you think my goals are?

((The entirety of this thread has been: you developing your story.))

I’m not sure I understand this. How would “my story” differ it was “developed”?

((I find it very difficult to belive that a software tweak (hence
‘software engineers’, -software-) done to a 1975 machine could cause it
to do this translation more effectively or more portably than something
around even today.))

Ahhh…something we have in common. Yes, I felt that way too.
However, my job was to go and get it and not debate why they wanted it.
I am not a computer expert.

((I find it almost impossible to believe that a tweak done by a
‘software engineer’ in 1975 could provide for you something that you
could find at no other place between now and ‘your time’, and certainly
without having to make a stop-over in our time to get back that far.))

A great deal of the computer infrastructure you depend on is based
on very old systems and code. One of the reasons I was sent to 1975 was
because of the person I met there, not the technology.

((Furthermore, I find the notion that one of a limited number of
time-machines would be used in this manner to be nothing short of
nonsensical. There are more effective ways to accomplish what you claim
in this regard.))

Perhaps you would share them with me. You might be right and I could make your suggestions when I return.

((4. I have, and continue to believe Dr. Hawking’s view in regards
to the possibility of time travel if indeed the model of time is what
you have suggested, that all possibilities occur in different
time-lines, in different universes is the way that time truly is. For
this reason alone I cannot accept you. It is entirely logical, and I
have seen no good case to counter it.))

I’m not sure I understand what you mean. If you believe in Multiple
World Theory, Hawking was not the one who first thought of that. If you
do, then I must be real if all possibilities exist. As I recall,
Hawking felt that it was possible to build a machine but some sort of
vacuum fluctuations would destroy it right before you tried to use it.

((You claim that you have no desire to prove your story to us, yet
everything you have done from the moment you first posted here has
flown in the face of that.))

I’m not sure that’s true. In fact, I’ve tried to point out on at
least two occasions that anything I do (at the request of someone else)
to support my claims can be found someplace else on your worldline
right now.

((What is more, you bring with you the claim that you will tell us
no names, no locations, or any specifics as a result of your supposed
ethics. If those were indeed the ethics you were committed to and
reasoned with, you would not be here now.))

I am curious about this also. Do you think I should not interact with you for your safety or mine?

((I visit with a pink unicorn in the garden behind my house at
night and it talks to me. I would show it to you but it only comes out
when I am alone.))

For some reason, I believe you.

RYAN:

((Time travel may be possible, but if you were to time travel, you
would NOT land on Earth. You would land in a vacuum of space. You have
to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the
solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel
back through time, you’d materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in
2036, which is NOT Earth.. it’s space.))

Yes, this is a problem. It was solved by taking a “snapshot” of the
local gravity around the unit before leaving a worldline and
incorporating it into the sinusoid during travel. The short answer is,
you “stick” to the earth but this is only a useful explanation to
understand it and it’s not practical. Since the computer system is
using a virtual reference, the calculations become flawed. Thus:

1. Based on the accuracy and timing of the “snapshots” the
distortion units are limited to how long they can travel before
becoming unstable.

2. We must leave and arrive in areas we have prior or future
knowledge of in order to avoid massive objects (buildings, water, etc…)

3. The unit has a fail-safe system during travel that drops out in
case of a unit shutdown or radical departure in gravity readings.

((Answer this factoid, John, and I will believe you until the ends of the Earth.))

Again, you should not offer this to anyone for any reason.

RICK:

((If John wants a way to prove anything – which from his previous
posts he has stated he DOESN’T WANT TO DO – then I am more than willing
to look over his proofs. However – just because I were to look
something over gives no more meaning to the rest of you than it would
if one of you looked his stuff over, believed it then told ME.))

Exactly!

MEL:

((How would someone that came here with no money all of the sudden
have plenty of money now? You could have brought the lowest
denomination coin of your time with a mint mark anywhere after 2001 and
probably convinced almost all of us. At least some people. It would be
hard to fake.))

The reason I don’t have 2036 money is because it takes up weight,
space and can be faked and I can’t use it for anything. What type of
expenses do you think a time traveler would have that I would need so
much money for?

SIMON:

((1) Simply inscribe your knowledge of any large scale events
(disasters, discoveries, etc etc) over the next six months (there
should be at least one memorable example) into a text file.

(2) Encrypt said text file.

(3) Give text file to a custodian. I sure Art Bell would volunteer, he’s very interested in time travel.

(4) In six months time give Art the encryption key and he can reveal what you said.))

The only problem is, now you have to trust the person who brings the information forward.

RANDY:

I’m not sure you really wanted me to answer those questions. If you
could be more specific I would enjoy the conversation. Do you believe
that faith alone will get you to God? Do you believe in an organized
force of evil that works against men’s souls?

13 coming…


Posted by Randy Empey on 02-19-2001 01:00 PM

Thumbs up

John T –

I would like you to answer any of the questions which you feel you
can answer. I would not ask were I not curious. You, of course, are
allowed to censor yourself and direct the conversation by what you
choose to respond to and say.

It may intrest you to read some of the other threads on this bbs, the
ones about other topics, like religion . . . and post in them.

But I think I can provide a brief response to your questions to promote further conversation here.

I believe that faith AND good works will get one to God. There are
other things, but they can arguably be included under the headings of
‘faith’ and ‘good works’.

I believe there is an organized force of evil that works against God’s plan for men’s souls. Its all part of the plan.

Your next question may be “Why do you believe that?” . . .

My answer is two part:

1. I was born into a family where such beliefs run strong. It feels right to believe what my loved ones believe.

2. My studies since my childhood have done nothing but confirm that
such beliefs are at least well founded, if not indicated by the way I
understand that ‘things’ work in this reality. By this I allude to many
different avenues of the pursuit of knowledge. Recently, the most
convincing has been things I’ve learned in my study of physics, of all
things . . .

Some scientist say science has made them athiests . . . I say science,
as I understand it, has had the opposite effect on many others.

I like to think, and the more I think, the more I become convinced that my beliefs are accurate enough for my purposes.

But, they are beliefs, and I could not prove them to you.

Another reason why I am stubborn in some of these beliefs, the
religious ones and other parts of my philosophy is because it feels
right — almost as if by intuition or subconscious communications from
‘the other side’.

I don’t think the possibility of TT disagrees in any way with any of the elements of my philosophy.

I think many reading this thread would like you to expound on the elements of your philosophy, John.

I vaguely remember you mentioned being religious . . . am I
remembering straight? (I’ll look over the past posts of course, but
reiteration doesn’t hurt.) How would you answer your own questions?

Could you talk a bit more on how the ‘many worlds’ view point
introduced by the advent of the TT tech. developed in your society
affects the religious views of both the masses and the thinkers?

I think that it works with the way I understand things — Falling under the ‘many flocks’ arguement, if nothing else.

You mention gathering written material here . . . so I assume you
do a lot of reading — before this trip, in your spare time, did you
read much fiction? If so, what genre? Any books from this century?

What brought you to this bbs in the first place?

And here is another character-o-meter question I’d like you to
answer: Have you seen George Lucas’s Star Wars Trilogy (bonus points
for any of the prequels or sequels)?


Posted by Joe Norris on 02-19-2001 01:12 PM

Question

1: What happens to Bill Clinton between now and 2036

2: What happens to Bill Gates between now and 2036

I am sure these are both headline events that will be talked about for several years to come.


Posted by John Titor on 02-19-2001 01:14 PM

RANDY:

((I believe that faith AND good works will get one to God. There are
other things, but they can arguably be included under the headings of
‘faith’ and ‘good works’.
I believe there is an organized force of evil that works against God’s
plan for men’s souls. It’s all part of the plan. Your next question may
be “Why do you believe that?” ))

Please don’t think me so cynical. I would never insult or degrade
someone’s religious views. My next questions would be “what about
knowledge?” I am a firm believer that faith (and good works) is not
enough to get to God. There is a mystery we must solve first.

((I vaguely remember you mentioned being religious . . . am I
remembering straight? (I’ll look over the past posts of course, but
reiteration doesn’t hurt.) How would you answer your own questions?))

Yes, I believe in organized evil. It would sure be easier to carry
out an “evil” plan if no one beloved you existed. Just curious, can
anyone tell me what “Satan” really means?

Had to answer those quickly. I have nothing but open-mindedness for
religious conversation and I look forward to more. I’ll get to the
other questions soon.

Thanks.


Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-19-2001 02:45 PM

Wink

Hi John:

Best I could find is from the Hebrew Ha-Satan, or “the Adversary.”

First, let’s examine what the Bible reveals about the origin of Satan and the demons.

EZEKIEL 28:12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of
Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “You were the seal of
perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering: The sardius,
topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and
emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was
prepared for you on the day you were created. 14 You were the anointed
cherub who covers; I established you; you were on the holy mountain of
God; you walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You
were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity
was found in you. 16 By the abundance of your trading [rekullatek] you
became filled with violence within, and you sinned; therefore I cast
you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God; and I destroyed you,
O covering cherub, from the midst of the fiery stones. 17 Your heart
was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the
sake of your splendor . . .” (NKJV)
REVELATION 12:3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great,
fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on
his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw
them to the earth. . . . (NKJV)
LUKE 10:17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the
demons are subject to us in Your name.” 18 And He said to them, “I saw
Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” (NKJV)
From the preceding Scriptures, we can learn several things about Satan
and the fallen angels. In the beginning, this “anointed cherub” was
created as a wise, beautiful, and powerful angel. He apparently was one
of the two cherubs who cover the mercy seat (God’s throne) with their
wings (see Heb. 8:5; 9:5, 23-24; Exo. 25:20; 37:9; I Kin. 6:19-28;
8:6-7; I Chr. 28:18; II Chr.3:10-13; 5:7-8). However, because of pride
in his beauty, this cherub’s wisdom was corrupted.

Satan is symbolically called the “king of Tyre” (Eze. 28:12). The
coastal city-state of Tyre was one of the world’s greatest traders
during Israel’s monarch period. Isaiah calls Tyre “the bestower of
crowns, whose merchants were princes, whose traders were the honored of
the earth” (Isa. 23:8).

Although the Scriptures don’t define the trade Satan was engaged in, it
clearly tells us that because of the abundance of his trade, he sinned.
Possibly Satan implemented a system of competition rather than
cooperation, which eventually filled him with violence, causing his
iniquity.

The word rendered “trading” in the NKJV translation of Ezekiel 28:16 is
a form of the Hebrew noun rekulla, which means “traffic” or
“merchandise.” This particular form of rekulla is only found five
times, all in Ezekiel (Eze. 26:12; 27:20, 23; 28:16, 18).

However, rekulla is derived from the root word rakal. It’s relevant
to note that a closely-related derivative, rakil, means “slanderer.”
It’s used in this context six times (Lev. 19:16; Jer. 6:28; 9:4; Eze.
22:9; Pro. 11:13; 20:19). The account of Satan in Ezekiel 28 could well
involve aspects of both these meanings. In the New Testament, this
fallen angel is often called the “devil,” or the diabolos in the Greek
(Matt. 4:1, 5, 8, 11; 13:39; 25:41; Luke 4:2, 3, 6, 13; 8:12; John
8:44; 13:2; Acts 10:38; 13:10; Eph. 4:27; 6:11; I Tim. 3:6, 7; II Tim.
2:26; Heb. 2:14; Jam. 4:27; I Pet. 5:8; I John 3:8, 10; Jude 9; Rev.
2:10; 12:9, 12; 20:2, 10). Not coincidentally, the literal meaning of
diabolos and its variations is “slanderer.”

It’s possible that through his “slander” and “gossip,” Satan turned
one-third of the angelic host against God. We know that Satan tried
this approach in the Garden of Eden, when he misrepresented God’s
motives to Eve (Gen. 3:1-5). The angelic forces loyal to God eventually
had to cast this “anointed cherub,” along with his allies, out of
heaven. From that point forward he became known in Hebrew as Ha-Satan,
or “the Adversary.”

There is more e-mail me if anyone wants the rest

Peace


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 03:25 PM

Smile

I’m still waiting for you to respond to my questions TT_0. After all, I did put HJYABJ 100 at the end of my post.

-Javier C.

P.S. Now it’s no longer an excuse of not being able to log on. We await your respond.


Posted by Simon Wiggins on 02-19-2001 03:32 PM

>>The only problem is, now you have to trust the person who brings the information forward.

Why if I had a glove sir !!!

Of course you could trust Art to fess up if you were right!

You must be from a very dystopian future to be so cynical


Posted by Nikki Colwill on 02-19-2001 04:57 PM

I just gotta say this is some of the best reading entertainment I have had in a LONG time!!!


Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-19-2001 06:10 PM

Smile

Hi everybody. wow! this is a very interesting forum.

for any body wanting to see what a IBM 5100 portable computer looks like they can see one here:

you will have to type it in I guess direct links are not allowed. ((http://mercury.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.IBM.5100.html))

I am hoping this shows up ok and does not offend the moderators.

It is on the other board but I was not sure if the link to the other board was still on here.

Anyway it looks like a very interesting piece of machinery.

It will give you a better idea on the machine John is talking about
that he went back to 1975 to get. how big it is and what it looks like.

sincerely,

pamela


Posted by Lola Montez on 02-19-2001 07:21 PM

To John,

I hope you will get to some of my previous questions, in the meantime I have more.

Why are orphans an issue? It seems war orphans would be pretty old by now.

What is your biggest or gravest environmental issue?

Does distillation remove radioactivity from water?

Do people still watch TV?

Are there any women on your travel team? What is the status of
women in your time? (This may only be able to be answered by a woman)Do
they hold office? Work outside the home? Get equal pay? Are they safe
on the streets at night?

What do women wear for the most part?

Are the Amish alive and well?

What is the birth rate?

Is there an unusual rate of birth defects and if so what kind?

Maybe you should be taking back healthy sperm and eggs.

You said that your culture was centered around the Universities.
Weren’t they wiped out in the war? They are in cities after all.

Do you use cell phones? Eat allot of red meat? Drive cars?

Are airlines in operation? Internationally?

Are people pressured (subtle or otherwise) to adhere to a Christian doctrine?

Do police make drug busts? Are there many jails? What kind of criminals are in them?

What kind of public punishment is there? Sounds like New England during religious persecution and intolerance.

Are there Wholistic healers? Herbal medicines? Alternative life styles?

Is there personal freedom?

Is there an IRS and a need to keep a lot of receipts and paperwork around to justify yourself?

Is the same type of currency used? Is ours today good in say 2010 or 2020?

Other than time travel how do most people get around the country? Do people tend to travel much?

Are people suspicious of strangers or all you one big happy family now?

How do most people die during the war? Radiation, starvation? bullet wounds?

I have more but I better quit to see if you will get to these and don’t forget my first posting, please.

Thanks,

lola


Posted by John Titor on 02-19-2001 07:25 PM

ERNIE:

((ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELD

Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and
capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 – 500 megawatts),
it’s discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and
captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified
singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various
microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.

It looks like a prediction. Is it.))

If you can take that paragraph and find a way to make a dollar from it than more power to you.

BLONNIE:

((i would first like to state that i for one have never said you’re
an idiot – i said you are aggravating. which is not really a personal
problem w/yourself it is just how i perceive you to be. an adjective -
not a noun.))

Point taken. I apologize.

((so that’s what this is all about? you come here & want us to
“help” you by asking questions.. so you can figure out how -we-
percieve things & why we think the way we do but you do not
recipricate the efforts. you only discuss things that you care about or
that -you- think are important or that -you- think you will “gain”
something from. seems rather -one-sided- to me.))

I was hoping it wouldn’t be so confrontational. I don’t see how words can harm either one of us.

((so you return home w/a better understanding while we’re left here
w/the same questions we had before? it doesn’t seem very beneficial to
-us-..just to -you- (atleast from your statements)).

You must believe that we both have interesting things to say to each other. Isn’t that worth it all by itself?

JAVIER:

((What state do you live in now in 2001?))

I am in Florida.

((Is John Titor your real name?))

Yes, John Titor is a real name.

((What do you look like? Post a picture of your self. ))

No.

((What is your secret agenda?))

If I tell you, it would just be an agenda, which I’m sure, is much less interesting.

((Is this dialogue between people in these posts part of your secret agenda?))

If I had a secret agenda, talking to people would not be part of it.

((Does your younger self realize what you are?))

Yes, he is aware that I exist but he doesn’t know who I am.

((Are you married?))

No but I did have a chance to convince myself otherwise.

((What rank were you in the Army?))

It is the equivalent of Major.

((Where did you go to BCT?))

I wasn’t fortunate enough to go to basic. We were fighting a war at the time.

((What company were you with, and what year did you graduate from BCT?))

The organization of the fighting unit I was in fell under the militia. We fought against the organized army.

((You have any fears? If so, what are they?))

I fear people who want others to take action based on their own emotions and irrational fears.

((What are the rules for fraternizing with people who aren’t from your time; do you make friends easily here in 2001?))

Have common sense and get your job done. Yes, I have friends.

((What would the DOD do to you if they found you out?))

I’m sure I would end up in one of their nice little padded cells
while they poked at my machine with a screwdriver. What do you think
they would do?

((What would you do if someone attempted to investigate you?
Hundreds of people go through these forums a day I’m sure. Some of
which can be government. Aren’t you at all worried that it’s only a
matter of time before you are found out?))

I don’t worry about that very much. No one believes me anyway. Right?

((And you said; “I very much want to discuss our cultures but
please help me understand how you won’t be able to change something I
tell you happened on my worldine.” ))

Suppose I told you the space shuttle would have a problem landing
at Kennedy tomorrow because something goes wrong with the runway. If
someone with the authority to do so hears that and makes the decision
to land at Edwards…bingo, your future has changed from my past.

((I appreciate you answering these questions for me John, and thank you for calling me your friend.))

I’d really like to believe that

RICK:

((I want you to understand something – since you’re using our
discussions to make a determination of our thinking for when you go
back.))

I am not qualified to judge you. I merely said it would be a subject of discussion when I return.

((However, rest assured, if I went to the security office and said,
“I have access to a time traveler” I’d get laughed at. I’d have to get
in touch with the “right people” to “report” the incident, and even
then the skeptics would over rule the “believers”.))

If that were not the case, I would not be posting at all.

((The US government… Russian or any other, would be in the same
boat. They would, if they could believe it, GRAB and hold time
travelers – checking the veracity of their stories and preventing them
from having any interaction with anyone.))

Yes, that’s what I think too. The irony is, I’m not sure the
machine will really do anything for them and all I can give them is
stock quotes and sports news. (Just a little humor.)

((So – John, my comments about being fraudulent – please don’t take
them seriously and please do not think I have anything against you
personally, nor wish to discredit you. I only want the honest truth.))

I don’t. Truth is something we all want. Like opportunity, its something you have to be ready for to recognize it.

((John, what would it take to get you to stick around after spring and leave during the next window of opportunity?))

My parents are much better at cards than I am. I fear they may not
let me leave in such debt. If I had all the time I needed, I would
spend much more time downloading and archiving.

((I fear that another month or 2 may not be enough time to get as much said and discussed as I would like to have.))

I will continue to answer the posts as long as I can.

((In your “world time” have things like “Saquatch” , “Loch Ness
monster”, and other reported unusual animals been seen, or captured or
explained away. ))

We have our swamp monsters too. In fact, I think it’s interesting
that we all respond to the unknown the same way regardless of our
cultural experiences.

((Is remote viewing used to gather military intelligence?))

I am only aware of it from this worldline. I don’t know otherwise.

((Are psychics still common? are they used by the government?))

Yes, psychics exist but I don’t have any knowledge of their use by the military.

((Is there a Police Dept as we know it. Have any of your top leaders or politicians been jailed or impeached?))

Yes, we have police but they are organized in smaller groups. Yes,
we still have political and religious leaders who find it difficult to
obey the law. I would submit to you that the law is only as good as the
people’s willingness to apply it evenly and swiftly.

((John, any chance of getting a better set of photos with more of the manual?. ))

Yes, I am pondering posting more of the manual. I am also
considering having my departure videotaped and yes, it will be free. My
only concern is how it might affect the “me” on this worldline.

((John please respond to my question as to “the prediction” did I jump the Gun? (get ahead of myself).)

I’ll have to go back and take a second look. Post again and remind me.

((One final question? Is there a Global Superpower state and what nation is it.))

Being a superpower only makes you a target. There is an uneasy
balance in the world now that everyone “probably” has nukes, chems or
bios. We don’t just bomb people for the hell of it anymore. Military
power is based on the number of autonomous fighting men who are
actually willing to fight.

CRAIG:

((I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period..))

You’re pretty much correct about your statement but actually, nothing I
do here will affect my home. I hold myself accountable for any damage I
do.

((It seems to me that with the cities under such stresses, people
would flock in large numbers to remote areas like Winnipeg (sorry guys)
or some other region with plenty of clean water, air and soil. Why is
this such a nelected fix? I would also imagine that the network of
Intentional Communities (communes?) that took root over the years,
would provide infrastructural support to a nation needing to find its
“FOXFIRE” roots.))

In my opinion, people “now” take clean water, electricity and their
feeling of safety for granted. If they leave the city in search of
fresh water they first have to make the realization that fresh water is
a problem. It’s much easier to demand someone else owes you fresh water
than it is to leave the lifestyle that made it bad in the first place.

((If I was transposed to the 1920′s or 30′s, you would have a hard time
keeping me off the streets, out of public places, shops, concert halls,
etc. just trying to take it all in. Ditto with just about any other
time and place.))

I agree with you. The first time I walked into a “superstore” I cried. I’d never seen so much excess in one place at one time.

RICK:

((It is interesting to note that the photos posted on that other
site were posted by an “anonomyous time traveler” some time back. It
fits the exact description John has give us of his machine. Therefore,
based on his discription alone, I would say he is the one that posted
the pictures. If he didn’t post them, then he is using them for the
basis of his story.))

Those are mine. They were posted by another person who I’m sure is reading this also and would be happy to confirm that.

((John – in looking closely at this device, I see there is a hand
control unit – with some sort of screen on it. I assume this is the
computer interface through which the device is programmed (or time
settings are made). Is that an accurate assumption? What does the
display show you (for instance, does it simply show things like
time/date calculations, or radiation [probably wrong word] of the
fields from the device?))

Yes, that is a remote unit. The unit itself gets hot and
“unapproachable” during long travel and you’re usually subjected to
about 2 G’s. It gets a little difficult to move around and the hand
held unit sits next to you. The unit displays many things but time in
transit, time to destination, VGL variance and unit temperature are the
most common during travel.

((Also, there are 16 apparent buttons. I have to assume further
that these are multifunction keys (that is you press one for an
alt/control function and other buttons have names or labels and perhaps
even numerical meanings). Is that also accurate?))

Yes, the menus are screen driven.


Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-19-2001 07:53 PM

Smile
Confirming for John:

“”””RICK:

((It is interesting to note that the photos posted on that other
site were posted by an “anonomyous time traveler” some time back. It
fits the exact description John has give us of his machine. Therefore,
based on his discription alone, I would say he is the one that posted
the pictures. If he didn’t post them, then he is using them for the
basis of his story.))

Those are mine. They were posted by another person who I’m sure is reading this also and would be happy to confirm that. “””””

Yes, I will confirm the fact that John did send me the photos and I
sent them to Doc ,who is also a friend of mine ,to post on his
board.and I will be more than happy to post more of your manual if you
want, John.

sincerely,

pamela


Posted by Lola Montez on 02-19-2001 08:13 PM

How do I find the pictures and manual pages you are speaking of?

Thanks


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 10:07 PM

John,

So those responds to our questions took you 5 days to come up with? Is that the best you could do?

Your not really efficient are you, when you’re asked to think on your feet?

You said you went to basic training remember, on the other forum?
And that’s how you got asked to be apart of this Time Travel project in
the first place. Be consistent.

And the question was, “Is John Titor your real name?”

Your responds, “Yes, John Titor is a real name.”

And you didn’t even answer the other questions fully. You answered
them like a politician would, and that’s by stepping around the truth
without actually lying. You’re to generic. But it’s logical enough to
keep your story and claims going.

But for how long ?

-Javier C.

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 at 10:13 PM]


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 10:18 PM

John you were asked these 2 questions, and you responded to them.
But I would like you to answer them again, and to please elaborate more
on them. Thank you.

((John, any chance of getting a better set of photos with more of the manual?. ))

……..My only concern is how it might affect the “me” on this worldline.

((I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period..))

……..nothing I do here will affect my home. I hold myself accountable for any damage I do.

So where do you stand? Your awfully unclear when asked questions of
this nature. And you always give a conflicting point of view to others
you’ve had to answer. And it’s always about you.

So how about we set the record straight here this time, huh ?

Oh and by the way everyone. John here says no one believes him… Is
that right everyone? Well if that’s true or not, he’s in FLORIDA and
goes by the name of JOHN TITOR. Do your own investigation, and show him
how much you believe him. I’m sure you’ll get some takers .

-J.C.

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 at 10:46 PM]


Posted by John Titor on 02-20-2001 05:06 AM

JAVIER:

((So those responds to our questions took you 5 days to come up with? Is that the best you could do?))

How many days seem normal?

((You said you went to basic training remember, on the other forum? And
that’s how you got asked to be apart of this Time Travel project in the
first place. Be consistent.))

Your question referred to army basic training. My earlier comment referred to be choosen for this mission.

((…You answered them like a politician would, and that’s by
stepping around the truth without actually lying. You’re to generic.
But it’s logical enough to keep your story and claims going.))

I’m not sure but it sure looks like your trying to say I’m being
truthful within your expectations. However, if you’re trying to hurt my
feelings, comparing me to a politician will do it.

(……..My only concern is how it might affect the “me” on this worldline.)

Actually, this is a good question. If the “me” here goes on to have
the same type of life and future work that I did, it may not look good
on his resume that another “him” has left a videotape behind of his
future mission to 1975.

((I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period..))

((So where do you stand? Your awfully unclear when asked questions of
this nature. And you always give a conflicting point of view to others
you’ve had to answer. And it’s always about you.))

If you look at my concern carefully, you can see that it won’t affect me at all. It affects him.

((Oh and by the way everyone. John here says no one believes him…
Is that right everyone? Well if that’s true or not, he’s in FLORIDA and
goes by the name of JOHN TITOR. Do your own investigation, and show him
how much you believe him. I’m sure you’ll get some takers))

I’m touched by your concern for my safety.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-20-2001 07:49 AM

Art had a fellow on the show the other day from a Time Travel organization.

John, do they have anything to do with the “future” of time travel
as YOU know it? The information can be found on Art Bell’s site, as
well as the full audio archive of the show.

If you get the chance, listen in, and check out the web site and
tell us what you think of the information the doctor provided on the
show.

About video taping the depature… Let us assume you do this, and
your agents (family?) in florida send the tape to the Sci Fi channel,
or to Art Bell… how would this affect you in the future?

Theoretically speaking, I doubt that anyone could determine that
you actually time traveled, but it would certainly make a very good
show.

When you depart this time, what is it we will see? Will the vehicle
simply vanish instantly, or fade out? Will a “bubble” of time develop
around the vehicle causing an darkened sphere preventing light from
going through? Will anything (other biological entities) caught in the
“time sphere” vanish as well – more specifically, any plants or animal
life that approaches too closely to the vehicle… will they get
dragged along?

Rick


Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-20-2001 08:16 AM

Rick,

I am not familiar with Art’s site what is the name of the program
on the time travel organization audio and how do i find it? I would
like to listen to it. thanks.

sincerely,

pamela

I know John is busy archiving and I am going to help him out on
this one because he has already answered the last couple of questions
you had. I am sure he will appreciate it. here you go Rick:

Pamela: 1.What exactly would an observer see as they saw you arriving in this

time? and exactly what would they see as you departed? would you just appear

suddenly or slowly? would you look like a heat mirage for awhile? any

light effects? or hazy misty shimmering distortion?

Time travel_0- The observation of time travelers “appearing”
suddenly in a world line do not happen very often. There are two cases
and two points of view to consider. In the first case, the time machine
does not move as it goes from one world line to another and then
returns. The people watching on the original world linewould wave good
bye and watch as the machine is turned on.
There would be a static discharge and the air would appear to “ripple”
as if it were getting denser. Then, it would stop and the machine will
have appeared to have gone no where. If the machine doesn’t move its
position from world line to world line, the observer would not see it
disappear at all. In the second case, if the machine is moved, it would
disappear from the viewpoint of the observer and return in a different
location based on where it was moved and turned on from the destination
world line. In that case, the rippling seems to dissolve the machine
and it disappears. If that happens while you are watching it leave and
you expect it to return, you know it was moved or had a serious
malfunction. It is actually quite dangerous to get too close to a
distortion unit as it enters or leaves a world line. It vents radiation
and has a very strong localized gravity field. Personally, I worry
about that a great deal.

Pamela:2.What is the dimension of the field around the car? How many feet out from the car would you say it goes?

Timetravel_0-It can be adjusted to some degree. The CG (center of
gravity) is adjustable within about 4 feet and the unit is effective
about 10 to 12 feet in either direction from there. The vertical
distance is quite a bit shorter and is determined by sensors in the
unit.

Pamela:3.approximately in inches how much of the ground is taken with you in one trip?

timetravel_0-Depending on weather or not you are going forward or
backward, the footprint of the unit is different. I wouldn’t quite say
it “scoops” up the ground cleanly. It sort of vibrates it loose and
takes it along for the ride. It looks like someone raked the ground an
inch or so deep with a small hand hoe or shovel. The negative
ergosphere “scoops” up the front and back areas of the field. The
positive ergosphere leaves a longer area near the center of mass. Its
about a cubic foot of dirt spread out over six square feet or so.

Pamela:4.If they put the device in a house and turned it on what do you think would happen?

Timetravel_0-It might not be as destructive as you think. Depending
on how close any object is to the field, it might not do any damage at
all except for the floor.

Pamela:5.what would happen to a bird or small animal that ran across the field right when it was producing the field to travel?

Timetravel_0-It would be quickly spread out over the lateral length
of the gravity field. Imagine being squished and stretched at the same
time. I would imagine anything left after that would be vaporized and
generate static electricity.

Pamela:6.how hot would you say the temperature gets on the outside of the car while in operation?

Timetravel_0-Very! hot. Depending on the power setting, 100 to 120 degrees is average.

Pamela:7.is the car in drive mode when the device is activated or is it totally turned off?

Timetravel_0-The car is off and the brake on.

Pamela: 8.has the device been tested on ships and airplanes?

Timetravel_0-Not that I’m aware of. Its important that it remain as
still as possible so the gravity sensors can get a good lock. The
divergence confidence would be way off if the vehicle was moving.

Pamela:9.do you wear special uniforms when you time travel? what do they look

like and does your group have a timetravel emblem or group name?

Timetravel_0-I wear a standard civilian service uniform during instruction and training.

Its sort of a cross between an army uniform and overalls. We do have a

quarter master who distributes clothing appropriate to where

ever we are going. There is a patch. It is round and has a graphic of a

Kerr singularity (sort of looks like an eye with gravity waves around it)

with two spiral paths running through it’s center. One path represents the

“safe” way and the other is the path to God. The bottom of the patch has my

unit number along with “Temporal Recon” printed on it. However, we remove

any identification and patches before we go anywhere

……………………………………….

Pamela:

by the way can you tell me what it feels like to time travel? when you are

in the process of doing it what does it feel like and what do you see and

hear. you made mention that you had to get use to the fields. Do you see a

bright flash of light?

Timetravel_0:

Interesting first question. The unit has a ramp up time after the

destination coordinates are fed into the computers. An audible alarm and a

small light start a short countdown at which point you should be secured in

a seat. The gravity field generated by the unit overtakes you very quickly.

You feel a tug toward the unit similar to rising quickly in an elevator and

it continues to rise based on the power setting the unit is working under.

At 100% power, the constant pull of gravity can be as high as 2 Gs or more

depending on how close you are to the unit. There are no serious side

effects but I try to avoid eating before a flight.

No bright flash of light is seen. Outside, the vehicle appears to

accelerate as the light is bent around it. We have to wear sunglasses or

close our eyes as this happens due to a short burst of ultraviolet

radiation. Personally I think it looks like your driving under a rainbow.

After that, it appears to fade to black and remains totally black until the

unit is turned off. We are advised to keep the windows closed as a great

deal of heat builds up outside the car. The gravity field also traps a

small air pocket around the car that acts as your only O2 supply unless you

bring compressed air with you. This pocket will only last for a short

period and a carbon sensor tells us when it’s too dangerous. The C204 unit

is accurate from 50 to 60 years a jump and travels at about 10 years an hour

at 100% power.

You do hear a slight hum as the unit operates and when the power changes or

the unit turns off. There is a great deal of electrical crackling noise from static electricity.

[Edited by Pamela Moore on 02-20-2001 at 08:54 AM]


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-20-2001 08:31 AM

http://www.artbell.com/topics.html (Link here)

The information below will be listed on the site. The guy is Dr. Anderson. His site is listed below.

Rick

02/15/01 – Thu/Fri

Guest: Richard C. Hoagland

Book: The Monuments of Mars: A City on the Edge of Forever

Website: http://www.enterprisemission.com

Topic Search: Apollo Missions

Guest: Dr David Anderson

Website: http://www.time-travel.com

Topic Search: Time Travel


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-20-2001 09:57 AM

Hi Pamela. Thanks for the answers. I assume you have all this archived from another BBS or something?

What’s your part in all this? How did you get the pictures of the machine? Do you know, or have you met John personally?

Have you seen the time machine yourself?

John – If you wouldn’t mind, could you post a few more photos of
the manual. Not anything that might give away some secret or something,
but something that would be interesting from a scientific point of
view? Thanks

Rick


Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-20-2001 03:20 PM

Smile

Hi Rick,

((I assume you have all of this archived from another BBS or something?))

This piece of information origionally came from an email
conversation between John and I and yes, it was posted on the
timetravelinstitute BB. I only submitted it here so John didnt have to
explain it all over again. and it answered your question. I asked him
the same question.

((What’s your part in all of this?))

Iam not exactly sure…yet.

((How did you get pictures of the machine?))

John gave them to me.

((Do you know, or have you met John personally?))

I have been talking to John since Nov. 2, 2000.

Where I came in contact with him through the timetravelinstitute. I have been in communication with him every since.

Thankyou for the link, Rick. I listened to Dr. Anderson it was very
interesting indeed. alot of information. hopefully John will have a
chance to listen to it.

I am pleasantly surprised I didnt realize what a great source of
information Art had here on his web site. I will be listening to
several other audios.

sincerely,

pamela


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-20-2001 03:38 PM

You flatter your self John. You know very well I didn’t mean that. I
think that was a desprate move on your part. Like always attempting to
turn it back to the reciever.

And I’m picking up that your a bit annoyed. What ever happened to thinking rational? One of your fears isn’t it?

I am pressed for time at the moment, but I will return later to finish this post A.S.A.P.

-Javier C.


Posted by Brett Fredrico on 02-20-2001 05:09 PM

John posted the following yesterday(2/19/01):

<——SNIP

Suppose I told you the space shuttle would have a problem landing at
Kennedy tomorrow because something goes wrong with the runway. If
someone with the authority to do so hears that and makes the decision
to land at Edwards…bingo, your future has changed from my past.
<——SNIP

Well, what did happen today? The space shuttle was scheduled to land at
Kennedy as of this morning but was changed to Edwards at the last
minute because of weather. This happens almost half the time
though…..so John had a (50/50) chance of telling us the future if
that is what he intended to do.


Posted by John Titor on 02-20-2001 05:23 PM

((so John had a (50/50) chance of telling us the future if that is what he intended to do.))

Yes, there was a 50/50 chance of that happening but the odds were easily one out two that it could have gone the other way.


Posted by Phillip Stout on 02-20-2001 05:56 PM

John,

You said that there will be a big war right? And that Russia will
nuke some of our major cities, right? Can you at least tell us which
cities will be nuked? I’m already guessing you can’t. I pray Anchorage
isn’t one of them..

Are we traveling in space in 2036?

Have we made it to Mars?

Have we colonized the Moon?

Has first contact with an alien race occured?


Posted by Doug Beauchamp on 02-20-2001 06:51 PM

Just a few questions, I apologize if they don’t seem 100% thought
out or if they’ve already been answered, I’m tired and I have a lot of
work still to do.

1) You say your machine has roughly a 60 year limit. Is it possible to go back 60 years and then another 60 years?

2) Have the people of your time proved the “worldline theory?” If
they have, is there any information you can share with is that proves
it?

3) Ever hear the story of Edipus? To make a long sotry short, after
being told he will kill his father and marry his mother he moves far
away. On the road he acciddently killed his father and ended up
marrying his mother. Thus, the prophecy is what caused him to fulfill
it. You say you don’t want to effect anything too much by giving out
information, but you could drastically change this worldline just by
talking about the war, or anything for that matter.


Posted by Stephen McKay on 02-20-2001 06:58 PM

John,

If you’re interested in posting some more photos and (pending your
decision) the video of your departure, I would be happy to display them
on my site. I’ve only got 5 meg storage, but I’m not using it at the
moment.

I’m eager to see some better photos

E-mail me if you’re interested.

Steve


Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-20-2001 07:29 PM

Question

John Titor ,i posted to you before and would like to let you know
that i would love to come along for the ride to the future if you need
a sidekick,i am able to fly hot air balloons,a good shot,physically
strong and quick,smart on my feet in case a odd event occurs and I
would not mind leaving this time to go to yours.I am not attached to
any one on this earth ,after all my ET encounters I need not worry of
much of this earth,i am 31 and have much experience in the Occult(the
hidden),and ET/human affairs,Oh and i know another TT traveler,and have
met others.agentq3@hotmail.com I thought i would get to the point ,and
those who brave to ask get the Willy Wonka Golden TIcket,eh,John
Titor,(Or do you not know of that movie reference) ?


Posted by Chris Forrest on 02-20-2001 08:01 PM

Smile

John Titor,

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US.

Well, I don’t buy your story. Sorry, some slang terms seem to confuse
you. I don’t BELIEVE your story. I don’t pretend to know the first
thing about such advanced topics as time travel, calculating a NFL
quarterback rating, or the perfect temperature to cook a Hot Pocket in.
Having written all that, of course I do have a question, something that
will definitely tell me whether you are full of it or not.

So here goes…

There have been many movements in music…rock, disco, and hip hop
are some of them. Though most people probably can’t rifle out names of
musical groups from 35 years ago, they probably would have a basic
awareness of what musical influences prevailed at the time. So my
question is…what is the NEXT big movement in music that will take
place here in the US, specifically?

I have the feeling this sort of knowledge isn’t the stuff you go to
Vegas and bet on, because it’s pretty generalized and pretty vague, as
well. Of course, being as simple-minded as I am, I would figure that
most people your age would know at least the types of musical
influences that were around as they were growing up. A direct answer
will work here, if you don’t mind.

>>Chris>>


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-20-2001 09:58 PM

John,

I like your format, and I see the representative you hired to
answer your posts does also. Don’t mind if I steal it from you for just
a moment .

((How many days seem normal?))

2 at the most. Especially when you make grandiose claims of being from
the year 2036. Your credibility suffers big time when you don’t reply.
Gives the impression that your trying to figure out what to say next .

((Your question referred to army basic training. My earlier comment referred to be choosen for this mission.))

Are you sure about that? I remember distinctively you saying that you
got approached for this mission right after basic training. I mean, it
was one of my first posts to you in the other forum. After saying “good
thing I got injured, or that would have been my fate too.”

By the way, not to be picky or anything. But I know how perfect you
like to have things with your writing. I just wanted to point out that
you misspelled CHOOSEN. It’s Chosen, with one O.

((I’m not sure but it sure looks like your trying to say I’m being
truthful within your expectations. However, if you’re trying to hurt my
feelings, comparing me to a politician will do it.))

Ok, here’s were we had a failure in communication. I have been
saying all along that you manipulate your statements to benefit your
story. I was only saying that you keep doing this, while dodging
certain things that would discredit you. But mainly what I’m saying is
that your story is very important to you, and that consistency is
paramount to you. Right?

((Actually, this is a good question. If the “me” here goes on to
have the same type of life and future work that I did, it may not look
good on his resume that another “him” has left a videotape behind of
his future mission to 1975.))

Now you think about this? So you’re this Time Traveler from the
year 2036 who somehow managed to learn perfect English while fighting a
war. But when you Time Traveled to the year 2000 you just had to spill
the beans to everyone, and are now finally realizing the out comes of
your actions might not be wise.

Man, how irresponsible is that? Do you have any idea how you exploited
your self here? Talk about chewing gum and walking at the same time .

((If you look at my concern carefully, you can see that it won’t affect me at all. It affects him.))

Yeah I see your concern.

1. Announcing to the whole world who you are.

2. Telling everyone what the future is going to be like, and what to watch out for.

3. Sharing scientific theories of Time Travel to your past, which is our present .

3. Using your perfect English and logic to manipulate others into believing and following your story.

4. Asking for volunteers to go back with you to the year 2036.

5. Saying where you were born and where you live, and knowing that government officials read these post everyday.

6. Admitting that you have a secret agenda. With that said, you know
anything you say can be questionable. In other words, you can be lying
to everyone big time about everything, your purpose, your motives, your
reason for being here.

7. Offering to make a videotape of your departure.

8. And much much more.

Yeah I can see how you’re really concerned.

I’m sure little Johnny will thank you for making his stay in a
government facility the most comfortable during the war and missing his
opportunity in becoming a Time Traveler?

((I’m touched by your concern for my safety.))

You said your self no one believes you. I was merely trying to see if you were correct. Excuse me for trying to take a poll.

-Javier C.


Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 06:33 AM

Perhaps it goes without saying but I would urge everyone to listen to Art’s show tonight.


Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-21-2001 07:43 AM

Am I getting this right? You load up all the people who want to go
with you in the back of your Chevy pickup, drive from Florida to
Minnesota. Sell that truck in Minnesota, buy another truck older than
1975, load everyone back in that truck, drive back to Florida and then
depart back to the future. Sounds like it will be quite a sight to
behold. If you can, swing by Ohio and give me a honk. Your welcome to
stay at my place.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 08:01 AM

Why is that John, somehow you managed to pay your way to get on the air? So your thinking big now huh?

No problem.

Little Johny needs all the free publicity he can get.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-21-2001 08:26 AM

Javier – I read your note here, and was thinking about something you
said… something about “knowing government officials read these posts
every day”. Actually, I really don’t think they do.

Think about this for a minute. I am one of the few government
people I know that read stuff like this. To me, it is interesting (and
there isn’t anything wrong with fantasy role playing in my opinion -
assuming that is what John [and perhaps the rest of us] are doing).

It makes sense that one would think they are, but.. who has time?
(I do… I have a pretty inanne job most of the time so I read stuff
like this when I’m waiting on backups to complete or other things
running in the background).

I seriously doubt the CIA or FBI has the man power or the time to
do it. Secondarily to that – the so-called “Carnivore” system can’t
POSSIBLY look at everything out there. I know it can’t. No matter what
people think. It isn’t possible to catch every conversation, email, web
page, pager data or anything else in the “ether”. IMPOSSIBLE at this
point.

Anyway… that’s my opinion on the government watching this stuff.
They simply “don’t believe it” and “have better things to do”.


Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 08:45 AM

ROY:

((Just wanted to recommend a book I think might tell you volumes about
present macro socio-economic conditions that lay the foundation for the
evolving political divisions you state lead to a civil war in the US in
the near future.
The book is “When Corporations Rule the World” by John C. Korten.))

I’ll look for it, thanks. I have a couple for you. The Nine Nations of
North America and/or The Physics of Immortality (anyone recognize this
author).

ANDREW:

((1) would you be able to internationally travel by:

traveling to the year 2001, fly a plane to the desired destination, and then go to the future from there? ))

You can only travel in time from a static position (at least with the
unit I have). In order to do even this, you must have knowledge of the
local terrain and building structures. That’s one of the basic
protocols we do in any time period for possible, future travelers.

((2) If each world line is separate from the others, then wouldn’t
the consequences of your actions now have no effect on your original
world line?))

Yes, that’s correct.

((If this is the case, why won’t you tell us things that will give us knowledge or let us avoid death?))

I am not qualified to judge if you deserve it or not and I have no
idea if you may be the next (for lack of a better reference) Hitler.
However, if I were able to physically help you from a situation because
I was there and I knew it was coming, I would help you.

((My only geuss is that you are not a time traveller, and don’t want to
say anything that could make a gullable person do something stupid. ))

Yes, I am aware that is the obvious first answer but I would hope
my moral and logical arguments at least make a dent in your thinking.
If you were a time traveler, would you be comfortable giving out all
that information after considering the possible consequences? (Provided
you knew it). If I were you, I would be worried about what the next
time traveler might do….even by mistake.

((3) how can I leave a message for myself in the future if the things I do in this worldline do not effect the others?))

Just post it here. All this information will probably end up on the
web in 2036. If you’re alive then and you think ahead for some reason
to do a search on yourself, you might see it. Of course the “you” there
would have no memory of doing it.

MICHAEL:

((your prediction of its pending disintegration, beginning in three short years, is utterly improbable, if not impossible.))

Have you see the documentary on Waco? You can drive to a video
store and rent it. It’s called “Waco – Rules of Engagement.” Just for
argument’s sake, what do you think would happen if information were
discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law
enforcement officers there? Would you hope….nothing?

((P.S. The idea of a farmer general leaving his fields to lead his
country’s troops to victory is an old one going back, at least, to
Roman times. Lucius Quintus Cincinnatus, I believe, was the gentleman’s
name, from the 5th Century B.C. Roman Republic.))

Yes, I often think about that when I see pictures of “my” farmer
general in Omaha. It’s a large bronze depiction holding a shotgun in
one hand a copy of the Constitution in the other. He is looking up at
the sky in defiance of God after his father was killed. (At least his
name isn’t Sparticus or William).

ERNIE:

((I guess if you asked Joseph Campbell there are only a few stories
and all literature is the re-telling of the same few stories in
different settings.))

Just like life.

Lola and the rest coming…


Posted by Lola Montez on 02-21-2001 10:28 AM

Javier,

You are getting very hostile. Lighten up! Why are you so
threatened? Does it really matter if John is authentic or not? The
worst consequence of believing him is being better prepared in case of
any emergency-natural disaster or otherwise. Weren’t you a boyscout? I
think it would be more interesting, informative and just plain fun to
find out more of what his vision of the future is than always trying to
put him on the defensive. (John, please stop buying into it)Do you
think you are going to finally find something to post that will get him
to cry “Uncle!”. (Why wouldn’t he speak English?) I think you are
getting too upset over this and you should ask yourself why.

Kind regards,

Lola


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 11:18 AM

How am I being hostile? I’m just asking John questions and answering
his comments in the best manner that I know how. No one here is being
hostile.

Well, maybe you with those statements.

Better then being a fanatic, who believes in people so blindly.

Well John, you have another fan to back you up.

Somehow some people here believe you need to be protected and backed up.

Go fig.

It must be your story that appeals to them .

And I’m exposing you. And that just hurts some people’s feelings.

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 at 11:43 AM]


Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-21-2001 01:05 PM

Thumbs up

Hello John I was wondering if you could respond to my post, I was serious.Agentq3


Posted by Joe Norris on 02-21-2001 01:29 PM

John:

I guess there will be no answer about my Bill Clinton/Bill Gates post


Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 02:04 PM

If you take a look, I am answering every question in order unless I see something quick that I think needs a response.

Thanks.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 02:53 PM

How about giving an estimate in how long they will have to wait to get an answer to their questions .

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 at 03:03 PM]


Posted by Doug Beauchamp on 02-21-2001 03:32 PM

Many people asking about the dangers of the war are asking about
cities being nuked. During school today I was thinking about this, and
nuclear warfare doesn’t seem to be the biggest form of fighting in the
future. Other than the small countries, I doubt nuclear warheads are
going to be shot from each end of the globe. To me, what seems like the
biggest threat is biological warfare. John, you say one of the hardest
things to do in 2036 is find clean water. You also say you only trust
food you’ve grown. Is any of this a result of your expiriences with
biological warfare? Is bilogical warfare a major threat in this war you
speak of?

This is definately the least serious of my questions, but is there
anymore background information you can give (What city you were born
in, etc)? I understand if you can’t but after this thread is over I may
get a little bored and see if I can find any information on the John
Titor of “today,” assuming that’s your real name.


Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-21-2001 04:22 PM

Let’s get the facts straight.

Javier I have been over those pages with a very open mind trying to
figuere out where you have seen John make that statement and I couldnt
find it.

This is the one you are claiming:

[((Your question referred to army basic training. My earlier comment referred to be choosen for this mission))

Are you sure about that? I remember distinctively you saying that
you got approached for this mission right after basic training. I mean,
it was one of my first posts to you in the other forum. After saying
"good thing I got injured, or that would have been my fate also.]

You made the statement on -Jan 1 2001

page 6

“well its a good thing I got injured in the Army, or else that might have been my fate as well.”

awaiting your findings…

could you please copy and paste the statement and tell me what page it is on…thanks.

sincerely,

pamela


Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 04:35 PM

LOLA:

((How far from what size city is it the safest to be?))

A 10 Kiloton nuclear weapon will vaporize metal for about ½ a mile
and have a heat effect for about 3 miles. A 100 Megaton nuclear weapon
will vaporize metal to 35 miles and have a heat effect to about 250
miles. I believe the largest nuclear weapon ever built and tested was
about 60 megatons. As I recall, the popular strategy toady is to strike
targets with multiple numbers of smaller warheads. The 100 Kt to 1 Mt
are the most popular. I believe there are about 150 – 200 major cities
in the US and half as many military targets. Please correct me someone
if I am grossly incorrect.

((You suggest bicycle. What about horseback?))

Yes, horses are good if you can feed and water them. Also, it’s very hard to eat a bicycle.

((Should we be stockpiling guns?))

The answer to this is NO! You will draw a great deal of negative
attention to yourself. I recommend become familiar with firearms. This
means taking a safety course and learning to shoot and clean many
different types. There will be plenty of guns around when you need
them.

((What kind of people will be the ones least trustworthy?))

The people with the most to lose if the world changes -Camel through the eye of a needle?

((Is the conflict racial in any way?))

Not at all. In fact, I would say it goes a long way toward erasing racial problems.

((Does the civil war start in such a way that with this
foreknowledge those willing will have time to remove themselves to
safer locations.))

Yes. You will be forced to ask yourself how many civil rights you will give up to feel safe.

((Will you readily be able to identify the enemy.))

They will be the ones arresting and holding prople without due process.

((Does living near a river with a distillation unit take care of water problems?))

There is an odd saying that might be appropriate here. Safe is
anywhere a hungry person can’t walk in three days. Water is important
but you must consider that when people need it they will know where to
get it. I would not plan on planting myself permanently next to a water
source. Yes, distillation dose make water safe but the runoff is highly
dangerous. Please remember that distillation is not boiling.

((How are the five people within the 100 miles contacted?))

The goal is to have a place to go other than your house and to be
able to trust someone with your life. Foster those relationships now.

((Do communications stay intact.))

Main communication systems no, CB, sideband and non-repeating short-wave, yes.

((I have 86 acres on a river in Central California about 125 miles
north of LA. I have geese, turkeys, horses, chickens, milk cows, good
pasture, a well run by electricity, and a garden. I also have two
teenage sons who are gun nuts. Plenty of rifles, semi-automatic and
otherwise.))

Be mobile. Set aside the things you absolutely would need and can
carry on your back. You will not be able to stay anywhere indefinitely
even with provisions and firearms.

(( Will he be asked to kill his countrymen?))

I’m not positive but don’t they sign a small piece of paper now asking them if they would have a problem with that?


Posted by Roy Meserve on 02-21-2001 05:44 PM

Smile

Thanks for those titles. I will look for them. To J Cortez

chill… reality (and time) are very plastic things- we change the future AND the past constantly, and to far less

noble ends. But, in the spirit of our friend- feel free to

doubt and question- I do myself but I don’t let it stop me from trying
to learn from what he has to say. Even the very common sense ‘rules’
for the potential future…. it costs

me next to nothing to be aware or to prepare.

Cheers,

Roy

ps John, it is Wednesday the 21st- did you say to tune into

the show tonight?!!! Cause if so, I’m there! Hope you call.


Posted by Jim Houlahan on 02-21-2001 06:30 PM

John,

I’m guessing the date of your return to the future is April 19th. Is this correct?

Of course, if you’re just “having us on” then April 1st would be more appropriate.


Posted by Angel Lynnn on 02-21-2001 06:57 PM

Exclamation

I think John was saying to listen to Dr. Day tonight. Check out her website:

http://www.drday.com/

Feb. 21, 2001

Angellynnn


Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-21-2001 07:00 PM

Smile

Now I’m not volunteering but…..

I’ve noticed as so must have most of us. There are a lot of questions being asked that John has responded to.

Perhaps one of us could volunteer to compile all the direct q&a
sort of a John Titor FAQ. This way new posters can read all the answers
that have been given and not have the same questions asked over and
over.

John, we can have a topic just for the faq right on this board I think?

General…

I don’t think John is starved for web space to post his manual and
pictures, many have offered John whatever resources he needs including
me. So far he has not been interested.

I’d be more than happy to give him a web site, a domain name, for
that matter a web server if it would help get more answers and time out
of him. Call me gullible if you want but I would do that.

John:

My mention of Joseph Campbell was a rebuttal to someone who claimed
that your General story was un-original. In fact the most likely leader
of a movement like the one you describe would most likely be a Farmer
since being a Farmer would provide much of the scenario required.

My asking you if the mention of CERN going on-line and discovering
this and that, was a prediction was a genuine question completely
un-related to “making a Buck”.

I wondered if it was just a hint you were giving as to something
that could be verified after the fact with little chance of you
mentioning it having an effect on it.

I’m sure it’s hard to remember what each poster has said, but in
my case you missed. I have argued that the important thing here is the
discussion and not if “you are” or “you are not” a TT. For me what is
interesting is the type of questions that are being asked, and the
apparent hostility that someone like you can be subjected to for no
“good” reason.

Ultimately there is no way to “prove” anything conclusive here.

Since I believe time travel is possible “now” I don’t have a
problem with your story. I like your story since it ends up being a
better world than we have now. I hope it is true.
If it is we are all lucky to have had a chance to talk to a TT. If not
then I wish you either a quick recovery or a great career as a Sci Fi
writer.

What can we gain from this discussion? is the real question.

I have already benefited from it as I believe you have, and many others.

Javier… To comment on Lola’s post. I understand your frustration, you want your questions answered.

If I were John I would not answer your questions either or skirt
them. Not because they are not valid, as they may be, but because your
buttons are being pressed by his non compliance.

I’m sure even in 2036 there is a tendency to tease one’s detractors if they make themselves available.

To expose someone you have to present “proof” the same type of “proof”
you are asking him for. According to our Laws if this were a court case
John would not have to prove where he came from. The burden of proof is
on the prosecution. It’s up to you to prove he is not a TT.

So far most of your assertions have been related to either John not
answering your questions, or some inconsistency in his story revolving
around his Basic training and it’s relevance to when he was recruited
for time travel.

Also his use of “perfect” English. His English is good but far from perfect.

John has “not answered” some of my questions to “my satisfaction”
and I for one am not ready to sign up for either the “I believe” camp
or the “I don’t believe” camp.

My reason for straddling the fence at this time is that.

No one here has presented any evidence either way that would be conclusive. Not you, not John, not anyone.

In a game of chess you have to either kill your oponent or chip
away at his defenses until you trap him and he gives up. To do that you
have to mount an offense that will neutralize his defenses. Conversly
you have to mount a defense to repel his onslaught. So far you’ve not
mounted either.

John is “playing you” Javier. It’s an old trick, if your most
vociferous detractor continually puts on weak attacks, it takes
attention away from the really challenging questions.

I’d be willing to bet that if you took all the posts from this BBS
and the other one, and compared all of it, you may find more ammo for
your cause.

If I was going to come after a person, I would not warn him, I’d
just get all my facts together, give him no warning and set up a line
of questioning designed to trap him into “Mutually exclusive
statements” if you could log enough of these you could prove he’s
having trouble keeping the story together. A good sign that he is not
telling the truth.

Example:

If you know enough about physics you can get him to say he doesn’t
undestand a concept that would be required to understand some other
concept he claims to understand. To do that you have to know more than
him. He knows as much physics as anyone posting here to say the least.

Colloquial slips:

If you analize all his statements you’ll find he is aware of some
colloquialisms, and not others. That by itself is not much since he
claims to come from the future you would expect some colloquial
deviation. The thing to look at is which ones he knows and uses and
which ones he doesn’t.

He knows “make a buck” and “more power to you”, and “off the cuff”.

He is unaware or dislikes “buy in” or “buy that”

Does that prove anything? not really. Given enough text you can profile him and make a good guess.

Still it doesn’t “prove” anything. You have the same chance of exposing him as he has of convincing you. None.

Here’s one for you John.

What 82 page book written in England in 1884 is required reading
for all physics students? I admit it’s possible you may not know in
2036, but highly unlikely. The same reason that makes it so important
for physics students would make it just as important to understanding
Time travel.

Secondly why is this little book so important.

If he doesn’t know this it lends more circumstantial evidence to
your side. But he could ask someone and then how do you prove that?

How many amateur Physicists here know that answer without looking it
up? Really. If you don’t know this off the top of your head, you don’t
know squat about Hyperdimensional Physics or it’s potential
technological application. Unless you are Stephen Hawking, this is what
it takes to get started. By the way Stephen Hawking read this book and
knows exactly what I’m talking about. As do all phycisists.

How about this? Let John make a recording of himself saying he is
from the future and whatever other part of his story he wants. We could
submit that to voice stress analysis. Is that enough? no again, since a
well trained person can beat a voice stress analysis by using self
hypnosis or having someone hypnotize them prior to recording. Again no
proof.

Short of grabbing John and pumping him full of Sodium pentathol you
are not going to have any conclusive proof until after he leaves and
has made some predictions for you to check. Since he says this is not
his timeline you can’t be sure a prediction is even a prediction. Again
“no Proof”.

So how is it you propose to expose John? can you show “me” your
rationale. After all your statements and mine are up for scrutiny the
moment we make them just like John.

I realize in your mind you already have exposed him, just not good
enough to convince me, and I would hazard to guess a number of others
here.

Let’s say everyone here agreed John was a fake. What then?

No more dicussion. End of exchange no more platform. Maybe.

Anyway. that’s my take. I don’t think you are hostile just a little excited.

Rick? any reports from your guys looking at the pics/manuals?

Welcome Lola

Peace


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 07:08 PM

Exclamation

Pamela,

Touchy…

When I have a little time I’ll do a keyword search for it. I’m sure it’s there. Why else would I say it? Right?

No need to get upset with me. I know he’s your friend, but stop protecting him all the time.

And to everyone else here. You all fail to see the big picture
here. You have welcomed a stranger into your lives who is not what he
appears to be. And I being one of the only one with enough sense to see
that, you get upset with me.

Excuse me, but are you forgetting that this man has a secret agenda? You can all be being played right now.

But no, that doesn’t matter to you. At least I make no secret of
what I am. A Time Travel
Activist.http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/9822/

Thank you,

Javier C.


Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-21-2001 07:20 PM

(((When I have a little time I’ll do a keyword search for it. I’m sure it’s there. Why else would I say it? Right? ))

will that be within two days?

I shall await….

sincerely,

pamela


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 08:06 PM

Pamela,

I don’t know why your so upset with me, but you know my word is
good. If I said I will do something, you know I will do it. Or have you
forgotten that?

-Javier C.


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-21-2001 08:20 PM

Javier you will obviously be one of the survivors :-)

John – Thanks for your replies.

Does the sense of “here and now” continue for you in 2036, while you are here?

IS your sense of “timing” off, in new time environments? I’ve heard
people who have “out-of-body-experiences” find that it sometimes takes
a day or two to regain a sense of normalcy in their minute interactions
with the physical world.

I remember reading a book about 7 years ago.

GENERATIONS: THE HISTORY OF AMERICAS FUTURE

It was a sociological look at the history of the United States through
the lens of different generational groups. The Authors noted a four
cycle repetition.

Its a bit of hard book to summarize, though its central thesis is this
- History follows certain cycles. With respect to this folder, what
stuck out for me was that the Millenial Kids (recently born and
probably up to about 10 or 12 now) were of the same type as the kids
who grew up and built the US infrastructure during the 30′s and 40′s
-and then fought WW2. (GI Generation) The GIs were classified as a very
civic minded generation. So will the Millenial Kids(MKs). MKs will go
on to build the global infrastructure of the information age, the new
transportation systems and the new municipal infrastructures. Similar
to the GIs they will then go on to engage in global conflict.

John – You were born about halfway into this cycle. BTW, GenXers
would be about 40-50 years old in 2036. How they doin’? Were they
pretty resourceful scrappers?(Fighters/Survivors)

Bottom line was – prepare for wars around 2008-2012.

http://www.timepage.org/

Also see the back page of the New Yorker Dec. 25, 2000 -Jan. 1
2001. I’ve seen a few references recently to this growing cultural
tension, one that supercedes the obvious class, racial and economic
divides. Its different and more aggressive cultural mitosis than I had
earlier noticed.


Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 08:48 PM

EMMETT:

((In this experiment the traveller only goes 30 seconds into the
past to appear in his lab. It seems that 30 seconds before his
experiment was to begin he saw himself appear in the lab. There would
now be two travelers and two time machines. It doesn’t appear that it
ends that simply as the “second” time traveler says that he saw a
duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds before he started the
trip. It would appear that its a time loop and an infinite number of
duplicates see a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds prior
to the start of the trip. ))

Yes, that’s possible.

((Your time machine weighs 500 lbs and an average man weighs about
180 lbs. So lets say that that the mass is about 700 lbs per traveler.
What is the mass of the duplicates and where did the mass come from?))

The other mass comes from other worldlines. I like to think of it
as standing in a room with mirrors on the walls and the apparent “me”
in the room next to mine steps into the room from his.

((What is the result of the duplicates arriving ~simultaneously at the ~same place and time?))

Psychological confusion and a few fist fights.

((How long will it take for the loop to decay? Will it decay? Is it a loop?))

The chances of hitting the precise worldline where all the other
duplicates are arriving is almost zero. It’s possible but increasingly
less probable with each arriving duplicate. The divergence decays and
the worldline is “less available” for new “yous” to arrive on.

((What happens if the experimenter, upon seeing his duplicate, decides not to continue the experiment?))

He can always leave the room on his own worldline or put a desk
full of books in the position where the time machine is arriving every
30 seconds. That will probably trip the VGL system and stop the time
machines from arriving.

RANDY:

((Do you remember any poetry or verse from after 2001 in your past?))

A Soldier’s Winter

The day before it wasn’t snowing.

The trees are strangers, leering, disapproving in the ash of winter

..my world, my life, my wandering path.

I pray God’s eyes may once again gaze upon me and remind me that I am still His child.

I only (think) I remember the first line but the last one I
remember. It has quite a few more lines that I don’t remember. It is
rumored this was written first as a letter by a soldier. After he died
it was added to and edited by others. In my opinion, it has become a
symbol for the collective guilt my parents’ generation feels for what
became of the world.

((Is there an active market on new books in your time, or has that
infranstructure not rebuilt it self? Are most the books available old
or new? ))

Yes but there are no large commercial printing and distribution
companies. Books and other forms of hard media are distributed on the
web and printed or put on other media from local hubs. Napster +
mailboxes etc.

((Out of curiosity, as a rough judge of character, have you read the works of J.R.R. Tolkien? And did you enjoy them.))

My father read the Hobbit to me as a child. I was always afraid of the dark riders but perhaps I admired them too.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 10:44 PM

Unhappy

In a post from you Pamela, one before the one I posted where you had
from the other forum. I suppose I took it as if it was one of TT_0
posts. Sorry :-(.

Here’s a sample: “……In 1983 I enlisted in the united states
Army .it was shortly after my enlistment and before completing basic
training that I was approached by those I now refer to simply as MY
FRIENDS. This group does not contain aliens nor interdimensional
beings, they are human….”

Well I’m humble enough to say when I am wrong, and I apologize for continuing to ask you this question John, and Pamela.

But, much still remains to be seen of your truthfulness. Yet you
have tons of supporters who you managed to woo into believing you
without any physical proof. That in it self, how you would allow that,
speaks suspect.

Not to mention that you have a secret agenda, and expecting us to think you’re being honest.

Right…

-Javier C.


Posted by Lola Montez on 02-22-2001 12:13 AM

John,

Thank you for getting to some of my questions. Here are a couple more.

You say you were in the militia fighting the US Army. I would think
that civilians would have a snowballs chance in hell of successfully
fighting the military. What does this look like? Is it a stalemate with
the resistance/militia hiding out until the cities are wiped out
allowing them to surface?

You site the approximate number of cities and military bases intact
before the nuclear attack. Are they ALL hit? Three days walk from
where? The nearest city? Again, though, what population makes a city a
city and not a town?

Does any one or any group stay neutral during all of these years of
fighting? Does anyone just lead a reasonably normal life during the
civil war? You say the civil war lasts from 2004 to 2008 and then the
short big one in 2015. What do the years from 2008 to 2015 look like?
How long does WWIII last.

Where is the safest place in the US to be. Come on be a sport. We
all seem worth saving, don’t we? Besides it would be interesting to see
if any of us took you seriously enough to end up there. I don’t think I
believe in coincidence. Maybe the reason we are all on this board now
is to find this out.

You mention the nature of Canadians but I don’t think you mentioned the impact of all of this on that country. Would you?

Also, regarding your view on the afterlife. I also think that it is a
mystery to unravel. That it is information, awareness, state of mind
and experience that leads to enlightenment and the experience of God.
Deeds and Dogma just don’t do it. As our awareness broadens doing the
right thing is what comes naturally (more often, anyway!)If it is based
on someone else’s idea of right it is a shallow and sporatic endeavor.
Religion must be experiential or it has no staying power (and probably
not enough compassion or tolerance).

Oh yeah, one more thing that is rather haunting is your allusion to
the position of women as being controversial and conservative in 2036.
Yikes! What is that supposed to mean?

Lola


Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-22-2001 03:20 AM

Javier,

Thank you for your honesty.

I have went back and looked up that post you mentioned.

Yes, that post was where we were discussing wether the

waverider had any validity or not. and right after that

was when someone else posted that he had been on art bell for awhile and that Art had proved him to be a fake.

which was posted on the TTI forum on January 1, 2001.

I had first seen the story on a paranormal site.

yep… and you did post right after that I see.

actually that might have been where john discovered Art’s site as well. yep…it looks like john registered in January.

Its ok to question, we are all just trying to find out the truth about things.

But we have to get the facts straight.

sincerely,

pamela

p.s. I am not mad at you.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-22-2001 06:52 AM

Ernie – The only comment I have heard so far was – “Interesting… I
need to look at the original though, to make any sort of determination.
Where did you get this?”

Hahaha. I told them I have “my sources”. They are content with that.

To Javier – You made mention of something about folks taking
someone into their lives, etc etc. While I understand that point of
view – the “trust no one, be paranoid” very well – since I am like that
myself, I have to say that you and a few others that have made comments
here detract from the discussion in one aspect. Let me explain before
you misunderstand me.

In our society today, we have nothing but untrusting, cynical
people out there. For good reason, most of them have had bad
experiences. The internet is not to be trusted in general and people in
general shouldn’t be trusted.

Now, what I am trying to say here (not very well) is this is akin
to some of the antigun people I meet. When I talk about the Second
Amendment to them, they get all upset and scream and yell how no one
should have guns and if there were no guns there would be no crime or
war. I calmly point out that there were wars before there were guns,
and they go on about how that was a “less civilized society”…

Then there are the “skeptics” about UFOs, and any kind of odd, out
of the ordinary occurrences (for instance, Big Foot, alien abductions,
SETI etc). Let’s say for instance someone is a “skeptic” – that doesn’t
mean they should close their minds completely to anything new, in fact,
doesn’t mean they should close their eyes to the apparently impossible.

In “my world” everything is possible. Just because we have a set of
mathematics to describe something here and now, does NOT mean there
isn’t a loop hole in those calculations.

What I’m getting at is very simple. I don’t believe John is a time
traveler right now. I have enough of a physics background to understand
his information though and (assuming he IS real) eventually he will hit
on something that I personally can use to verify for myself the truth.

I think Ernie said nothing would be conclusive proof. Then again, I
don’t require conclusive proof to keep “alive the idea that time travel
is possible”.

What I’m trying to say is that you’ve set yourself up to be John’s
nemises for some reason. If it is to protect the rest of us, that isn’t
necessary. We’re all adult, thinking (free thinking) individuals who
have the right to whatever beliefs we wish in this day and age,
regardless of our gender, religious believes, race or even in my humble
opinion, nationality.

In other words… a skeptic is a good thing to be. Each of us
should have our own, interal skeptism to use to mediate our belief
systems. But, when someone comes in loud and strong trying to force
everyone to his or her point of view, there is a serious problem.

Now, I’m not asking that you (or anyone) NOT pursue their ideas, and
idealism, nor am I even asking you not to try to convince people. I’m
simply pointing out that we all have a right to our beliefs – without
ridicule from anyone else.

Don’t get me wrong here, I am not taking any one’s “side” as I don’t believe there are sides to take here.

Someone else (I forget who it was) mentioned something about
nuclear weapons being tossed from corner to corner of the earth and the
impossibility of that. Think again.

There is more of a nuclear threat, right now, today in 2001 than
there was in 1983. During the Cold War, we never would have launched a
nuke, nor would have the Soviet Union at each other.

However, there is a greater threat today because many smaller, and
somewhat unstable countries are getting nuclear capability – and have
access to other countries who would sell nukes without any qualms.

Yes, biological threats are bigger, but do not rule out nukes, ever.

Even the CIA special report that came our recently mentioned what I just said.

I guess the only thing we need in this discussion are some more
pictures of manuals, and/or a video tape of John’s “depature” (if that
is what you would call it??) from our time line.

Proof, sometimes like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Rick


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-22-2001 07:57 AM

Rick,

That was very inspirational. (How ever you spell it =)

However, please understand that my intention is to just keep it real. And believe it or not, someone here has to.

People will march to the sound of his beating drum if someone doesn’t
speak up and offer an other side. In other words, lots of people here
are one sided.

Some aren’t free willed thinking individuals as you described…
Some need people like John here to give them purpose. A person whom
they can look for answers, not someone to lead them. A short-cut more
like it.

And Time Travel is that short-cut.

You never been face to face with a Time Traveler have you? First hand
experiences are always the hardest to have others understand.

John is not what he appears to be. Yes he is well spoken, and has a
pleasant manner in how he presents him self. But looks are deceiving
when you have a secret agenda. Take that into your explanation…

Well I have to go now. Ask me more questions if you want. I will answer them all to the best of my knowledge.

Thank you,

Javier C.


Posted by Bob Marz on 02-22-2001 09:14 AM

John Titor:

It’s comforting to know miracles still occur in the future as well
as the distant past. I refer to your report on the Aussies repelling a
Chinese invasion.

How come it doesn’t bother you that people may die through your
inaction yet you find it “morally wrong” that you might affect lives by
active involvement?

Isn’t it just as morally wrong to affect lives through inaction as it is through action? Hint: The answer is YES.

One of the issues that runs throughout your posts is this moral
ambiguity. You’ve thought it through enough to decide it boils down to
personal decision (which should liberate you from further qualms) yet
you still say you dare not decide who “deserves” to (live or) die. In
other words you’ve made the intellectual realization but it hasn’t yet
trickled down into your everyday life/actions. IE, Since good/evil are
subjective/relative, depending on circumstance and viewpoint, you
aren’t required to possess precognition to discern all present or
future ramifications of any lives you may save either by
action/inaction. Your immediate decision, in itself, is its own
authority. In the basic life versus non-life equation you should choose
to support life. Further confusion, such as (as you said) whether
you’re qualified to determine who deserves to live or die, is outside
your sphere of influence, therefore you’re not responsible for such a
decision. But, here’s the crux, rather than decidecide to simply remain
uninvolved, you should simply move in the direction of life-affirming
action. If good and evil achieve a balance in the larger picture, as
you suspect, and all life is “God” experiencing physical manifestation,
the question of you being required to decide who lives or dies is moot.
What should motivate you is that which promotes this life process, a
subset of which is experience/information/knowledge viability.

The fact that I couldn’t restrain myself from telling you this
because I see you bumping your head against it constantly means, sadly,
it’s non-experiential for you and probably obstructs your embracing
this idea rather than facilitates it.

“If you have not lived it, it is not true.”

“The only real sin is that which obstructs the acquisition of knowledge.”

“Friend, listen. The God whom I love is inside.”

Thanks for the ride, you’ve done a great job here.

[Edited by Bob Marz on 02-22-2001 at 09:22 AM]


Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-22-2001 09:51 AM

Thumbs up

Guierdjeff,Ouspensky spoke of how humans will eventually need to go
back in time and bring every wrong to right ,every hitler to
moot.Through tech or mind one will eventually give into the good,if one
can travel through time then fixing things would be the new prime
directive I would think,to take it upon oneself to right the wrongs if
one can to protect the beautiful thing which is the fragile human life
experience,to be loyal to this experience all we humans reading this go
through(To nurture humans in what ever time one finds oneself into).To
awaken in a utopia because men and women went back and hinted and
helped some who were to be swayed by evil to be strong and do what we
all know is right.Eventually we all have to get along on the
planet.Languages and culture/customs should not divide but unite
through the randomness and difference in the others.Perhaps telepathy
would be a better communicational tool ,then what is currently being
used on the planet.agentq3i would give my life to such a cause if i had
a way to time travel consistantly and safely,through tech or
Will(Magick),or doorways.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-22-2001 10:01 AM

John,

I know some won’t like me for saying this, but like I said before in the other forum, I’m not here to be liked.

I just wanted to say that there have been a few complaints from some
who think your not answering their questions to their satisfaction.
Now, before you would just say it’s me, and that I have these
expectations in how you answer my questions.

But as you can see, that was not the case, nor is it now with others.

More people nowadays are coming forward that besides the technical
questions being answered, your showing signs of just being general,
vague, contradictive or just plain not knowledgeable in these other
areas. Where as you say, you being a Time Traveler from the year 2036,
you should know this.

Just wanted to make it known to you, before you use your
manipulative ways to make it seem like if you answered the question.
But in fact, you haven’t. You reverse alot of what you answer. And you
know it.

Sincerely,

Javier C.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-22-2001 10:08 AM

James R.Quayle III,

Yeah that’s the way to do it. That’s way better then doing it as
something mankind should come together in an agreement on. Better then
over coming our problems on our own, when there is an instant fix for
it. Just change the past without them knowing it, for a future hidden
agenda.

(In case you had no idea, I was being sarcastic).

-Javier C.


Posted by John Titor on 02-22-2001 10:44 AM

I will get to all the questions. I’m trying to comment on them in
order. I’m posting the names before all the questions so if you feel I
missed something just bring it up again.

I saw something last night that I want everyone’s opinion on. Its
concerning two television commercials advertising the same cellular
phone product. The first commercial I didn’t understand right away but
the second was obvious.

In the first commercial, a man dressed in cold weather gear appears
to be in a snowstorm. He’s on a cellular phone saying goodbye to his
family as if he was going to die in the storm. We then see he is
standing in front of a snow machine at a ski resort area.

In the second commercial, another man dressed in cold weather gear
is talking on a cellular phone. We see a young women inviting him to a
romantic evening. He seems a bit stunned and excited, hangs up the
phone and runs off. We then see he has abandoned an unconscious person
he was giving emergency medical treatment to.

What do you think of these commercials?


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-22-2001 10:49 AM

John – I think you live in an area that is being aimed because of a
demographic profile. They would never run those kinds of ads in abig
city. People would get fired up too easily.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-22-2001 12:14 PM

Spare us John, just say what your point is. Or is your point having
people’s opinions on these commercials? And if so, would that fall
under one of your agendas?


Posted by Lola Montez on 02-22-2001 12:17 PM

John,

At the risk of asking too many questions and taking up more than my
share of cyberspace, please respond to one more train of thought. You
refuse to give advice that might actually allow someone to dodge the
bullet. I postulate that you actually do not have any more of an
advantage or responsibility than the person who grabs someone who is
about to step off the curb and get hit by a bus. I would not stop and
think ‘gee, I don’t know, do they deserve to be saved from the fate of
a roadkill?’ A doctor or priest does not take it upon himself to decide
who should be helped. A jet pilot doesn’t stop to think “Hey, air
travel is pretty unnatural, these people should have to walk and row
their way to Paris. I am messing with the way time and space is
perceived and the nature of reality with this form of transportation.”
Time travel is just another form of transportation in one sense. Our
possible new ability to time travel in the future may not seem any more
exotic than our ability to access other cultures is now. Anyway, I
think maybe your reluctance to elaborate is unwarranted. What happens,
happens and everything is experience. I have come to the place that
there is no such thing as a bad experience just painful crash courses
in personal growth.

Lola

Lola


Posted by Lola Montez on 02-22-2001 12:25 PM

Bob,

I did not see your post before I got my last one on. Seems we have
similar attitudes about choice and responsibility. Also, about religion
as experiential.

John,

Most ads are sick panderings to people’s insecurity, sex drive or greed. If it’s a really good ad it hits all three.

Lola


Posted by Jim Houlahan on 02-22-2001 12:41 PM

John – Are you posting on other (non time travel related) boards
without revealing your status as a time traveler? Is the conversation
as interesting? What are your conclusions so far?


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-22-2001 12:45 PM

Lola and Bob – Very interesting. By the same token, why do we take
the Prime Directive from Star Trek, for granted? It seems to have
something to do with being able to operate with an unfair advantage.
What is this about technology that seems to put the users at odds with
natural law?

What if John were to rescue someone who was about to be hit by a
bus, and this person then went out to a bar that night and killed
someone? That’s a general idea, I wonm’t load it up with more scenarios
and examples.

I’ve really enjoyed this thread guys. I would like to get a little
closer to the buzz I first had, that this could be possibly true.

John – I think you have answered this – are, or were, you in
contact with TTs in 2036, and if so, what percentage of the people
accept it as possible? After the flight of the Wright Brothers at Kitty
Hawk, it took 10 plus years for people to accept it as anything more
than just an urban myth.

[Edited by Craig Cuthbert on 02-22-2001 at 12:52 PM]


Posted by Lola Montez on 02-22-2001 01:09 PM

Craig,

Maybe I missed your point, but mine was “how is John saving someone any
different from our doing so?” I do not see him having an “unfair”
advantage. He did not time travel to kill Hitlers mother after all. I
guess that would be out of the 60 year limit but I imagine there is
some bad guy that would fit the bill. Scientists and others are always
making knowledgeable predictions but Southern California is still
occupied. I doubt that John telling us what he sees coming would change
very much of our behavior no matter how dire the information.

Although, I have seen some Star Trek episodes in the past I am not a Trekkie and am not familiar with Prime Directives.

Lola


Posted by Doug Beauchamp on 02-22-2001 01:28 PM

The Prime Directive in Star Trek is to explore space without
interfering with any cultures not fully advanced in the area of space
exploration. In short, it’s there to protect other cultures. Imagine if
people from space came to our planet and gave us the secret of space
exploration. Likewise, imagine if a time traveler from the future came
to this time period and told us the secret of time travel.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-22-2001 02:02 PM

Did everyone forget that John has a secret agenda? No body knows if
he’s killed anyone. So what if he seems like he’s not capable, because
of the way he sounds. He is a soilder, a person trained to kill.


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-22-2001 02:28 PM

Lola – Sorry it was a quick post and it jumped across some of the mental references.

What is the difference between someone like John saving somebody and
someone like me saving somebody? (BTW I have saved somebody, LOL).

The difference, of course is that John has (theoretically) come
from the future with the assistance of some technology that is not
native to our time. That’s where the correlation to the Prime Directive
derives. The real interesting question is the one you two raised. Why
is this an issue? To me personnaly, its intrinsically poignant. It
revolves around the same questions of technology that you could apply
if you tried to go back in time with some modern weaponry and alter a
particular battle.


Posted by Lola Montez on 02-22-2001 04:02 PM

Why is it different than using a jet to go to a primitive tribe and
give them, say, antiobiotics. (never mind the problems with
antibiotics)It is a high tech way of interfering with a culture. Who
cares what time zone. Ethically isn’t it the same?

[Edited by Lola Montez on 02-22-2001 at 04:27 PM]


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-22-2001 06:16 PM

I don’t think there are a lot of differences in that analogy. Though
you have to ask whether going into a tribe and innoculating them would
have unintended consequences, not the least of which would be – which
has happened in real life – soldiers coming in and amputating the
innocualted limb. That wasn’t just a story from Apocalypse Now.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-22-2001 11:05 PM

Hey John,

Haven’t heard much from you today. You care to comment on what we’re
talking about? I know it might be a bit far from your line of
expertise, but your from the future. You should have something
insightful to say about this, No?

Well I can understand if you wish not to comment. I know the
pressure in answering questions like this can really impose on your
persona. Always selective and reserve in what you answer huh ?

-Javier C.

P.S. So are you going to have spectators watching you leave, or not? If so, can I come by with a few of my friends ?


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-23-2001 07:42 AM

Javier- I wasn’t really trying to be inspirational, only point out
that sometimes for any understanding to occur, there needs to be a kid
of base-line on where we begin an investigation. That is, we can
postulate all we wish, but a theory must be in place, and several
aspects of the experiment must be given a kind of non-variance in
regards to belief. That is, if we do not believe ANYTHING we see or
hear, we can never honestly learn, since nothing is believeable!

That is my take on this. Sure, I don’t necessarily believe John is
a time traveler, and I do understand that a debate (or argument if you
prefer the term) prevents stagnation. Folks who blindly believe in
anything that comes along are the same people that PT Barnam spoke
about (ie “There’s a sucker born every minute”). I am certain no one
here is a sucker, but, folks tend to want to go with the crowd. I
don’t. You don’t. And John obviously doesn’t.

I would suggest that if you asked 100 people about time

travel 80% or more would say they think it is possible in SOME
MANNER. 99% of them won’t have a clue about science either. So… given
that we have a wide range of people and talents here, I give everyone
his and her due where it comes to “believing”. If they wanna believe,
that is THEIR perogitive. We really don’t need some hero to come along
and “save us”.

Expose the truth, yes. So keep up the good work. haha

John – commercials. They are ignorant commercials. In fact, almost
every commercial on television these days are either totally stupid (so
they come out funny), or they are aimed at people whose humor suffers
from being “in the black” a lot. Black humor seems to be the way things
go these days. I don’t much care for it.

Javier – a comment about soliers. You’re correct. *I* am a solider
first. I’ve been in the military 26 years now. I’ve been everything
from an electronics teacher, to a team chief at the White House
Communications Agency. I’ve seen combat (though not what most people
think of as combat – fire fights in Central America). My “real job” as
a reservist is the Non-Commissioned Officer in Charge (NCOIC) of a
communications flight for a tactical airlift wing. I have computer,
radio and cryptographers working for me. Our job.. main job is to make
communications work.

Every one of us have traveled someplace dangerous, and done jobs
that most people wouldn’t DREAM of doing. In our civilian lives, we are
all in computers or some other “less than dangerous career”. Every
person that works for me can climb, run, survive, shoot… and kill.
They all know how to do it from the newest Mom in our group to the
oldest man (me). My 18 year olds are just as deadly in their jobs as
the oldest guy (which is me).

If I’m sent to do my job, I will. And killing is one part of it. Some
people forget that a military member’s job is killing sometimes. It
isn’t always their main job, but it is part of what goes with being a
soldier, sailor, airman and marine. Many might balk when told they have
to do it… but, they WILL do it when the time comes. Anyone know why?
Because it is called survival.

If there is to be a war in our future, every man, woman and child
now alive will become involved if it comes to OUR HOMEFRONT. That is,
more than anything, what John has been saying I believe.

Whether it will come or not is a different story. It is MY duty to
prevent a war. Even though I might be told to fight one, even against
my own people – I won’t kill Americans. Nor will any other military
member in the US Armed forces.

So – to John… this is a kind of an answer to something you said
earlier on. No, military people are not asked to sign anything saying
they will kill anyone. It is either an urban legend that has been
perpetuated in the past few years, or it really happened with one
Marine platoon in 29 palms. I’ve had two men tell me they participated,
and both say it happened, but it was NOT a military-wide thing.

I’ve researched this. NO ONE HAS ANY DOCUMENTATION ON IT! That’s
the facts. The fiction is what my side (the progun people) are pushing
about the UN. But, that is another discussion for another time – and
perhaps another place.

Suffice it to say, the US Military will never turn on the people,
we are sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States
against all enemies, foreign and domestic … and to obey the laws of
the President and the Officers appointed above (us) me. That means the
orders have to be LAWFUL. Think on that folks, as you consider your
future actions.

Rick Donaldson


Posted by John Titor on 02-23-2001 08:08 AM

((So – to John… this is a kind of an answer to something you said
earlier on. No, military people are not asked to sign anything saying
they will kill anyone. It is either an urban legend that has been
perpetuated in the past few years, or it really happened with one
Marine platoon in 29 palms. I’ve had two men tell me they participated,
and both say it happened, but it was NOT a military-wide thing.))

I agree the details are very important. My statement ended with a question mark. I made no difinitve statement.

“I’m not positive but don’t they sign a small piece of paper now asking them if they would have a problem with that?”


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-23-2001 08:25 AM

Rick,

Wow, I had no idea you were in the Military. You don’t come off as an
NCO. Well most of the ones I met were A-Holes. It’s good to know some
nice people are in the Military after all .

What branch and what rank, if you don’t mind me asking?

-Javier C.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-23-2001 08:33 AM

Atleast we know John is here reading these. He’s just not answering .

I have a question for you. Since your here, you won’t mind answering it.

What did you anticipate when you came to these boards? What reason
could you have to come here and spill your guts to the whole world who
you are? I mean, did you think you would get people to listen to you. I
think you knew you would…

But I am picking up, that you have encountered a few things you didn’t
anticipate. And it’s only becoming more apparent as the days go on.

Now Military knows about you. Worried?

What are your thoughts as you see your perfect little world you created with lies shatters into pieces?

-Javier C.

P.S. Answer my others questions too.

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-23-2001 at 08:58 AM]


Posted by Filip Sandor on 02-23-2001 10:31 AM

Question

I don’t see the need to bring out any BS o’meter; what are we going
to prove? That it is not worth thinking seriously about what our time
traveler friend has come to share with us? What is it going to change
if we KNOW FOR CERTAIN whether John is really from the future? It will
definately change SOMETHING (different for all of us), I know that much
for sure, but I don’t think we need that sort of distraction at this
point.

Honestly, I believe that even if John answered all your questions
correctly, Mike, it would change nothing of the essence of John’s
message. I really think he is trying to tell us something; more than
the fact that he is a time traveler. Now, if we could just pin-point
what it is that he is trying to tell us; I literally mean, pin-point,
or focus on. The message is clear, but we like to create lots of fog.

Time travel is REAL. Anyone who knows physics well or has listened
to Art’s guest, Mr. David Anderson about a week ago, knows this.

The truth is we can run, but we can’t hide (from own actions). So
why even bother, why not face what we are faced with? Even if we
managed to get a knavish grip on a ‘magical’ time machine, what would
it really change for us… unless we knew what to use it for? It is
irrelevant for us to have access to a time machine or to know which
time John has come to visit us from when there are really more
important things for us to think about, at least some of the time. I am
not saying we have to BELIEVE John to be a time traveler, that is
irrelevant, but I think we should listen to his ideas about what we
might be able to do in order to prevent our own greeds from consuming
us whole.

John, I appreciate you being here and I think most of us do, even
if your presence only means a good debate, which some of us evidentally
enjoy. Debates are good!

I would like to finish this post with a question (for John): Is
spiritual awakening a difficult process; if yes, then why is it so
difficult, and are we all capable of it?


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-23-2001 11:06 AM

(Javier Wrote

Rick,

Wow, I had no idea you were in the Military. You don’t come off as an NCO. Well most of the ones I met were

A-Holes. It’s good to know some nice people are in the Military
after all . What branch and what rank, if you don’t mind me asking?

-Javier C.

Hahaha is that how folks see us military guys?
There is a saying a buddy has who was an officer in the Air Force. He
tells me that his job as an officer was really to be “diplomatic” to
get a job done (including war fighting) but when diplomacy fails it is
the NCO’s ‘kick @$$ and take names’”

Mostly, I see where time travel if is becomes a real thing in our
‘time line’ would indeed be handled by the US Space Command and then
eventually would off shoot to a US Time Command or something like that.

Remember that todays NCOs and Sargents are not like they were in
times past. Today, some of the enlisted personnel in the United States
military are as educated (if not more so) than most of the officers.

Also, Javier – about me personally, remember, I’m an active duty
RESERVIST, so I am a civilian most of the time. Also, remember that
military people, are no different from any one else except in certain
attitudes they might maintain. In other words, we are just as curious,
just as intelligent and just as politically savvy as any civilian out
there. The difference being we are sometimes limited on our avenues of
voicing our opinions.

The military in general is “conservative” about social, economic
and even political idealisms. You can not honestly be a “liberal
minded” person in the military and expect to last long. Why? Because
you tend to beliefs that are contridictory to military life.

That isn’t saying we do not have things like gays, and
non-religious people. That isn’t saying we don’t have out and out
anti-”Republican” “forces” in the military. But, they are few and far
between.

Anyway… I know this is less about time travel than it should be,
and semi-iff topic, but in a way, it does relate to the over all scheme
of things in this “time line”.

Take care all… see you all on the other side (of the weekend).

Rick


Posted by Randy Empey on 02-23-2001 11:19 AM

John –

Here is some cut&paste to put this in perspective:

((

((I believe that faith AND good works will get one to God. There
are other things, but they can arguably be included under the headings
of ‘faith’ and ‘good works’.
I believe there is an organized force of evil that works against God’s
plan for men’s souls. It’s all part of the plan. Your next question may
be “Why do you believe that?” ))

Please don’t think me so cynical. I would never insult or degrade
someone’s religious views. My next questions would be “what about
knowledge?” I am a firm believer that faith (and good works) is not
enough to get to God. There is a mystery we must solve first. ))

Imagining cynicism where it is not is a hobby of mine, please excuse me if I sound too paranoid for your tastes.

What about knowledge?

There are plenty of great mysteries, but if your only aim its to ‘get to God’, it is not neccesary to solve them.

Faith and good works is enough. Its got to be the right kind of
faith and good works of course, but you don’t have to be a wise old
monk to get into heaven. .

But what about knowledge? That is where the fun begins . . .

If ones aim is to become like God, or be able to cooperate with him in
his future endeavors, or self betterment, then spending ones life
questing after knowledge is a good recipe. There are plenty of
mysteries to be discovered. But the rewards are not at the end so much
as they are in the journey.

Learning is what we are here to do.

At the same time, there is still a ‘light side’ and a ‘dark side.’

I look forward to further conversation here.

Another question has just hit me — What do you see for the future of TT in your world-line?


Posted by John Titor on 02-23-2001 11:31 AM

RANDY:

((You mention gathering written material here . . . so I assume you
do a lot of reading — before this trip, in your spare time, did you
read much fiction? If so, what genre? Any books from this century?))

I am a big fan of Conrad, Twain, London and any type of religious apocryphia.

((What brought you to this bbs in the first place?))

When I decided to present or revel myself as a displacement driver
I had been watching similar boards for quite a while. I believe the
only way to accept what I have to say as being remotely possible
requires an open mind able to temporarily suspend major portions of the
belief and logic system. In his own strange way, even Javier falls into
this category. I would much rather talk to him than a straight line,
give me the equations physicist. I don’t gain any insight that way.

((And here is another character-o-meter question I’d like you to
answer: Have you seen George Lucas’s Star Wars Trilogy (bonus points
for any of the prequels or sequels)?))

Yes I have seen them. I like the first one the best and the “next
one”, in my opinion, isn’t that great either. That’s a heck of a
battery those light sabers.

JOE:

((1: What happens to Bill Clinton between now and 2036 ))

I don’t really know.

((2: What happens to Bill Gates between now and 2036))

This I do know but I won’t discuss.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-23-2001 09:22 PM

John you opportunist, why don’t you answer my questions? Why so
selective and silent? Did I scare you off or something, why you backing
off? I must have told you the truth, and now you must be thinking it
over .

You’re like a vulture, in the sense that your just waiting to find a
question to bring up your popularity back up. While avoiding those that
would bring it down. Cause you know your afraid. I told you it was only
a matter of time.

I’m lucky, I don’t fear anything, and I stick to my word.

The TimeTravelActivist say’s, “Any question, any time, JUST BRING IT!”

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/9822/shades1.jpg

-J.C.

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-23-2001 at 09:42 PM]


Posted by Jeanette Foresta on 02-24-2001 07:05 AM

I had met someone, a year or so ago, who said he was from the year
2036 also. He said something happened to make this travel all the more
possible.
He gave me some details, I wonder if they are the same as yours.

I printed out and read the article at the site you wrote.

The five presidents? He gave me a breakdown of the government in 2036,
I would like to know if there is something called the DNE? Democracy of
a New Earth? In which the world is broken into 5 sections. I won’t
elaborate here. Yet. I may write it into an article, but then I would
feel guilty, (as you say)for being money hungry, and not just
contributing. I will think about what I will do according to if I hear
from you personally.


Posted by John Titor on 02-24-2001 12:37 PM

LOLA:

((Why are orphans an issue? It seems war orphans would be pretty old by now.))

Problems with the environment still have lasting affects on all people,
which cause the average life span to lower. In addition, people are
more susceptible to accidents. Family life and children are very highly
valued and the community takes the responsibility for raising children
if their parents die.

((What is your biggest or gravest environmental issue?))

Water. You need it for everything and there is very little left in the world that is positively safe to drink.

((Does distillation remove radioactivity from water?))

It removes the dust and dirt particles that are radioactive.

((Do people still watch TV?))

Yes but it isn’t broadcast anymore.

((Are there any women on your travel team?))

Not that I’m aware of but I would assume there are women who are
either trained or are training for the same type of work. I don’t know
why there wouldn’t be.

((What is the status of women in your time?))

I understand the question but I have nothing to relate it to in
2036. The status of women is the same as men. Equality issues
disappeared during the war.

((Do they hold office?))

Yes.

((Work outside the home?))

Women are not expected to stay home and be “barefoot and pregnant” if that’s what you mean.

((Get equal pay?))

Yes.

((Are they safe on the streets at night?))

There is still crime but people do not attack each other the way they do here.

((What do women wear for the most part?))

Clothing is more functional. Women wear very similar clothing as
men when working or training. In our free time or with our family and
friends, clothing is much more individualized. Long dresses, knitted
sweaters and pants are still quite popular. You’ll have to forgive me;
I’m not very good at describing women’s clothing.

((Are the Amish alive and well?))

Yes, I believe they are.

((What is the birth rate?))

I don’t know the exact figures but having children is radically
lower than it is now. It is the one thing I wish we had that you enjoy
here.

((Is there an unusual rate of birth defects and if so what kind?))

Yes. Mostly stillborn.

((You said that your culture was centered around the Universities.
Weren’t they wiped out in the war? They are in cities after all. ))

Not all major universities are in large cities.

((Do you use cell phones?))

Yes, we use a form of cell phone.

((Eat allot of red meat?))

Yes but not as much as you do.

((Drive cars?))

Yes but they are not produced in nearly the same numbers or used the same way.

((Are airlines in operation?))

Yes but again, not nearly as many.

((Internationally?))

Yes, but most people don’t get really want to go overseas.

((Are people pressured (subtle or otherwise) to adhere to a Christian doctrine?))

Not at all.

((Do police make drug busts?))

No.

((Are there many jails? What kind of criminals are in them?))

Yes there are jails. Mostly theft, fraud, rape and murder.

((What kind of public punishment is there?))

Hard labor, community service, banishment (you must move to another community), public execution.

((Sounds like New England during religious persecution and intolerance. ))

How do you define intolerance? We don’t really have the energy or
desire to waste time being intolerant. If you produce and help the
community than you can do pretty much think and do anything you want
within the law.

((Are there Wholistic healers? Herbal medicines? Alternative life styles? ))

Yes.

((Is there personal freedom?))

Yes, the same freedoms you enjoy under the Constitution.

((Is there an IRS and a need to keep a lot of receipts and paperwork around to justify yourself?))

Yes, we pay taxes. Sounds like you don’t enjoy keeping track of your personal income taxes. I don’t think anyone does.

((Is the same type of currency used? Is ours today good in say 2010 or 2020?))

Yes, we use money. That’s a good question. I don’t see why you couldn’t use your current bills in the future.

((Other than time travel how do most people get around the country? Do people tend to travel much? ))

There is a high-speed train system, horseback, bike, walking. Automobiles are used mostly for sport and some transportation.

((Are people suspicious of strangers or all you one big happy family now?))

There is still conflict and mistrust. Yes, I am suspicious of
strangers. I think that’s an instinct we are given to help us stay
alive.

((How do most people die during the war? Radiation, starvation? bullet wounds?))

Correct…but in this order: Starvation – Disease – Bullet Wounds – Radiation.


Posted by Richard Lina on 02-24-2001 01:24 PM

Arrow

John,thank you for sharing,I find this fasinating.wanted to ask, has
California,had”the Big” earthquake,in your time and has any of the
north Coast disappeared?..also, I really do wish that you could be a
guest on Art’s show,I am sure it would be enjoyable…thanks
again…..Richard


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-24-2001 02:22 PM

How hard is it for you to come up with a one sentance answer to
people’s questions? That’s what you just did, though you might say it
took you a whole day to come up with what to say.


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-24-2001 02:49 PM

I hope my last couple of posts weren’t too off the wall. Just wanted
to say that I understand why someone assisted by advanced technology,
would have reservations about interfering with the status quo here. The
law of unintended consequences.

So John, c’mon man (do people still say that?), let’s hear what kind of culture you live in.

>What music do 20 year olds listen to.

>What’s the future of cloning.

>Any more on Bill Gates?

>Do people wear chips yet?

>Are you a marked man?

BTW, Which hand are you not supposed to take it on (hint: its not the left) and why?


Posted by Randy Empey on 02-24-2001 03:04 PM

Javier —

Keep up the crusade, but . . . .

Bear in mind that your expectations seem unjustified to us less concerned about John’s veracity.

Some times I go for days without even reading posts, but should my critics hassle me about it?

I know . . . I know . . . . extraordinary claims require
extraordinary proof . . . . but thats only to prove them, not to talk
about the ramifications of thier possibility or the ideas involved.


Posted by Lola Montez on 02-24-2001 04:02 PM

John,

Thanks for taking the trouble. I would still like to know what population makes a city big.

Your time sounds grim. Are you tempted to deliver your computer to 2036 and then retire in the 1970′s?

What did you think about those commercials?

Lola


Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-24-2001 04:49 PM

Timetraveler_0~

When it is beginning to rain….

it is time to go rainbow gazing.

~pamela


Posted by John Titor on 02-24-2001 05:24 PM

Its been pointed out to me that the links to the pictures are all down for some reason.

If anyone has a public site I can post them again, I will be happy to see that they get to you.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-24-2001 05:32 PM

Craig,

John is here reading these posts. Only answering when it’s
convenient for him (i.e. the nature of the question doesn’t entitle him
being exposed). So as you can see, it’s not like he’s been away for
quite a while, he’s making him self-known to us, and avoiding to answer
my questions.

Do you not see that?

a


Posted by Lola Montez on 02-24-2001 07:14 PM

No word on why the pics are down?


Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-25-2001 12:44 AM

Problems with the pictures:

I have got in contact with Doc, where the pictures are located-

Doc is having some technical difficulty with the site.

Where geocities has suddenly restricted some of his images.

He should be able to correct the problem he said.

and if not he can easily move them to a site that can not be touched.

sincerely,

pamela

[Edited by Pamela Moore on 02-25-2001 at 01:10 AM]


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-25-2001 01:36 AM

Pamela,

Since you have appointed your self as John’s personal
representative. Perhaps you can assist in shading some light into who
he real is. Tell us, is he fearful of what he has done and how things
have turned out here in these message boards? Notice how silent he’s
gotten, and only answering specific questions.

What’s your opinion on that?

Oh yeah, busy archiving, but still able to read these posts and post when convenient.

Do you personally think he’s for real? I can understand if you wish not
to tell me. I respect you for keeping it a secret, if he asked you not
to tell.

Either way, I will still keep asking John questions, and others will
too. Until… well I don’t want to break it to you, how will you feel if
he is exposed as a fraud? I know you believe into his story quite a
bit, I’d hate for you to feel betrayed and deceived by him. It’s a
terrible feeling, trust me. I once had a friend who I thought I could
trust, until I found out the truth.

Well I hope this doesn’t upset you. I understand that people are
always going to be looking for answers. But they shouldn’t take short
cuts in finding them (i.e. Time Travel). And everyone is always going
to need someone to look up to and to acknowledge. But John here, has a
secret agenda, and is being praised like a God. Now doesn’t that just
strike you as wrong? It does to me.

Sincerely,

Javier C.


Posted by John Titor on 02-25-2001 07:31 AM

RICK:

((John, do they have anything to do with the “future” of time travel, as YOU know it?))

There are numerous people and organizations that contribute to the
practical application of physical time travel. I think you would be
surprised how much real work is being done right now.

((About video taping the departure… Let us assume you do this,
and your agents (family?) in Florida send the tape to the Sci Fi
channel, or to Art Bell… how would this affect you in the future?))

It wouldn’t affect me on my home worldline in the least. I would
only be concerned how it would affect the “me” here. Of course it may
be a large part of my secret agenda and I have no choice but to do it
anyway.

((Theoretically speaking, I doubt that anyone could determine that
you actually time traveled, but it would certainly make a very good
show.))

I wonder what it would have been like to see a plane break the sound barrier before the jet engine was invented?

PHILLIP:

((You said that there will be a big war right? And that Russia will
nuke some of our major cities, right? Can you at least tell us which
cities will be nuked?))

No I won’t do that. However, I submit to you that when the moment
comes it will be absolutely plain as day that you are unsafe in the
cities. The millions people that stay will choose to stay. That’s what
comes as a surprise.

((Are we traveling in space in 2036?))

Not yet but they are working on it.

((Has first contact with an alien race occurred?))

Not that I’m aware of.


Posted by John Titor on 02-25-2001 08:00 AM

DOUG:

((1) You say your machine has roughly a 60 year limit. Is it possible to go back 60 years and then another 60 years? ))

Yes, that is possible but the divergence grows exponentially as you
move farther away from your worldline of origin. I could make 50-year
jumps to go back and see what the world looked like 2000 years ago but
there is a strong chance it would look nothing like what I expect.
There are larger distortion units that are more accurate and have a
larger window.

((2) Have the people of your time proved the “worldline theory?” If
they have, is there any information you can share with is that proves
it?))

The Many Worlds theory seems to wrap up very nicely into current
string theory. Unfortunately, we have not solved string theory yet
either but (n-10) seems to be the best working model we have in 2036.
As you are probably aware, the “big equation” does not need the final
solution in order to take advantage of the smaller parts that do work
in the real world.

((3) Ever hear the story of Oedipus? To make a long sotry short, after
being told he will kill his father and marry his mother he moves far
away. On the road he accidentally killed his father and ended up
marrying his mother. Thus, the prophecy is what caused him to fulfill
it. You say you don’t want to effect anything too much by giving out
information, but you could drastically change this worldline just by
talking about the war, or anything for that matter.))

I see your point but do you think Oedipus would not have taken
those actions if he didn’t know the prophecy? I don’t believe that
knowing a possible future makes it happen. You are capable of changing
your worldline for the better right now. None of the things I have said
will be a surprise. They were set in motion ten, twenty, even thirty
years ago. Are you really surprised to find out that Iraq has nukes now
or is that just BS to whip everyone up into accepting the next war?

STEPHEN:

((If you’re interested in posting some more photos and (pending
your decision) the video of your departure, I would be happy to display
them on my site. I’ve only got 5 meg storage, but I’m not using it at
the moment.))

I appreciate that. It looks like the previous issue has straightened itself out.


Posted by James Dvorak on 02-25-2001 01:00 PM

Exclamation

i cant spell too good, hehe. But someone asked john about AIDS and
cancer in 2036 and he said no cure for aids, and Cancer that there was
some progress. but havent you been listening to art bell lately John???
we are on the literal brink of finding cures, even if its not this
year, we will still find cure in under 30 years. I also find it hard to
believe that our planet would want to do time travel and than let
anyone use it??? But youlll probbably say you are government or
something. Dont you think government would be more concerned with
getting other things taken care of than A time machine??? why you need
an old ass computer from the 70s anyway????Im sorry you might be an
actuall time traveler but no way in hell do i believe you without any
proof. Heres a question maybe you can answer without “upseting ” the
time line… There was a show on Fox very recently presenting evidence
that we didnt land on the moon, I really believe this beccause of
evidence presented, now this wont prove to me that you are TmTrvlr, but
Just tell me if we actually did or not. I really was hoping we would
have found a way to live on other planets by 2036, also how about
flying cars. you should know what GINGER “is”, you knew it was some
kind of mobile personal transit system, but you dont know exacts???
open minds people, open minds (dont trust this one!)


Posted by John Titor on 02-25-2001 03:54 PM

JAMES:

((John Titor ,i posted to you before and would like to let you know
that i would love to come along for the ride to the future if you need
a sidekick,i am able to fly hot air balloons,a good shot,physically
strong and quick,smart on my feet in case a odd event occurs and I
would not mind leaving this time to go to yours.))

I appreciate the offer but I’m not sure you would like the year 2036.

CHRIS:

((There have been many movements in music…rock, disco, and hip
hop are some of them. Though most people probably can’t rifle out names
of musical groups from 35 years ago, they probably would have a basic
awareness of what musical influences prevailed at the time. So my
question is…what is the NEXT big movement in music that will take
place here in the US, specifically?))

I appreciate your frustration and quite a few people have asked me
questions like this. The expected answer is that I don’t want to break
my personal code of “time travel ethics”. The real answer is, I just
don’t know. I was not prepared for the year 2001, I was prepared for
1975. I don’t suppose it would be very impressive if I told you Disco
would be big until 1980.

MEL:

((Am I getting this right? You load up all the people who want to go with you in the back of your Chevy pickup…))

Actually, the requests were rhetorical. No one is going back with me.

((…drive from Florida to Minnesota. Sell that truck in Minnesota, buy another truck older than 1975…)

Doesn’t have to be a truck but I get your point.

((…load everyone back in that truck, drive back to Florida and then
depart back to the future. Sounds like it will be quite a sight to
behold. If you can, swing by Ohio and give me a honk. Your welcome to
stay at my place. ))

Thanks. One thing I do find interesting about time travel tech is
the expectation that we can pretty much go anywhere at anytime. These
systems are quite complicated and they do have limitations. Are you
going to be around in 1975?


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-25-2001 05:38 PM

I find it interesting how now, after all the deliberation of
attempting to convince others of your story, you are now backing out.

Did someone here do it for you?

In the last few replies, you commented on not wanting to break your
code of ethics. But as we have seen now for the past few months with
you is that you have broken ethics to go out of your way of proving to
us what you are.

Here is a sample of what was just said:

((The expected answer is that I don’t want to break my personal
code of “time travel ethics”. The real answer is, I just don’t know. I
was not prepared for the year 2001, I was prepared for 1975. I don’t
suppose it would be very impressive if I told you Disco would be big
until 1980.))

That above example not just shows how irresponsible you are, but
how ignorant as a Time Traveler you are as well: “I just don’t know. I
was not prepared for the year 2001.” Good choice, 2036.

And here, we see you backing out of a jam, with something like:

((Actually, the requests were rhetorical. No one is going back with me.))

Nice revision to your story, but you lied to everyone. Some people actually took your request seriously.

Right?

What, no public apology?

Don’t you feel that you done a bad thing, making people believe you, only to tell them it’s not true?

You mentioned you would take people back with you on more then one
occasions. Did people think you sounded serious? YES. Did people
believe you, YES.

Think about that…

Truly,

Javier C.

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-25-2001 at 05:46 PM]


Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-25-2001 10:41 PM

Thumbs up

It’s not that one believes one truth,It is more like i leave my
options open and I have learned from my experiences that anything can
happen,but that is my life,not yours,I bet John is from
somewhenelse,time to me is just like a distance to get to,sometimes we
find a ride to where we never thought we were going,and when offered a
chance to time travel why not?Peace to you javier and John
Titor,James,And JOhn Titor I would like it in 2036,because if you knew
of my life experiences ,anywhere ON earth is good,and I bet it can’t be
all that bad?Simplicity is good i was a good boy scout who can camp,and
hike forever.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-26-2001 01:42 AM

James,

You said:

((It’s not that one believes one truth,It is more like i leave my
options open and I have learned from my experiences that anything can
happen)).

You responds in the beginning is neutral to either side. But
towards the end you clearly contradict your self and side with John.
Talk about not wanting to believe one truth.

Still waiting for you to answer John, and Pamela.

Truly,

Javier C.

P.S. I meant no disrespect to you James, I just felt obligated to point out the truth, as what I am doing questioning John.

Btw, what kind of experiences have you had? If you don’t mind taking about them.

[Edited by Mary Rowland on 02-26-2001 at 09:06 PM]


Posted by Angel Lynnn on 02-26-2001 04:14 AM

Question

Hello, John.

Can you tell us if reverse speech is used in the future for business or even pleasure?

Also, can you talk about earthquakes in California or Nevada?

Thanks, John, for starting this topic and sharing your time with us. We are really enjoying it and you!

Angel Lynnn


Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-26-2001 08:13 AM

John,

I will be around in 1975, I guess. That would be a very good year
to miss for me. I do have a 1972 Porsche, but it hasn’t been started in
15 years. Maybe if I could go back to 1985 when I last drove it I could
do a few things different, not just with that car, but maybe buy some
of that Microsoft stock.


Posted by Randy Empey on 02-26-2001 08:20 AM

I think the strongest arguement for time travel not being easy or possible at all is the greed factor.

Warping time and space takes lots of energy . .. making finding out if
or how TT works hard . . . is this because of some accidental way the
universe turned out, or is it a fundamental law written in by the
Creator?

Any thoughts on that side of things, John T. or Javier?


Posted by Luis Gonzalez on 02-26-2001 09:16 AM

Arrow

John,

I would like to speak to you in private. Please email me at the following address

wiccanism@hotmail.com

luis


Posted by John Titor on 02-26-2001 03:39 PM

JAVIER:

((Better then being a fanatic, who believes in people so blindly.))

fa.nat.ic (n.) A person possessed by an excessive zeal for an uncritical attachment to a cause or position.

JAMES:

((Hello John I was wondering if you could respond to my post, I was serious…))

If I didn’t get to something, please feel free to ask again. I’m
going in order of the postings and trying to get to everything that
seems worthwhile and/or productive.

DOUG:

((Many people asking about the dangers of the war are asking about
cities being nuked. During school today I was thinking about this, and
nuclear warfare doesn’t seem to be the biggest form of fighting in the
future.))

Nuclear war will be very effective at destroying an enemy’s economy and the people’s will to fight.

((Other than the small countries, I doubt nuclear warheads are going to be shot from each end of the globe.))

I would caution against that. That’s exactly what “they” want you
to think while they continue to develop smaller and more accurate
MIRV’s. Have you ever seen a neutron bomb the size of a basketball?

(( John, you say one of the hardest things to do in 2036 is find
clean water. You also say you only trust food you’ve grown. Is any of
this a result of your experiences with biological warfare? Is
biological warfare a major threat in this war you speak of?))

Yes and no. Yes, biological warfare and accidents do cause a great
deal of problems but the lack of a working infrastructure also hinders
the continuation of the food manufacturing you depend on now.

((This is definitely the least serious of my questions, but is
there anymore background information you can give (What city you were
born in, etc)? I understand if you can’t but after this thread is over
I may get a little bored and see if I can find any information on the
John Titor of “today,” assuming that’s your real name. ))

Once I leave, I would not want any attention to come to my family here.

JIM:

((I’m guessing the date of your return to the future is April 19th. Is this correct?))

That is a day to remember but I was thinking more along the lines of March 21.

ERNIE:

((My mention of Joseph Campbell was a rebuttal to someone who
claimed that your General story was un-original. In fact the most
likely leader of a movement like the one you describe would most likely
be a Farmer since being a Farmer would provide much of the scenario
required.))

Throughout history, farmers have often been a target of oppression
because they are absolutely necessary to civilization but too busy to
defend themselves. If you push a farmer too far, they stop growing food
and have nothing to do but hide in the woods and shoot back.

((My asking you if the mention of CERN going on-line and
discovering this and that, was a prediction was a genuine question
completely un-related to “making a Buck”. I wondered if it was just a
hint you were giving as to something that could be verified after the
fact with little chance of you mentioning it having an effect on it.))

Please do not be offended by my “making a buck” remark. I say it
with a wink to help other people form their questions. Yes, some very
interesting things will be going on at CERN in the near future.

((For me what is interesting is the type of questions that are
being asked, and the apparent hostility that someone like you can be
subjected to for no “good” reason.))

Yes, I find that interesting too. Sometimes I wonder what people
are really angry about and I have come to the conclusion that
frustration is better directed at the messenger. But then again, that’s
history.

((I’m sure even in 2036 there is a tendency to tease one’s detractors if they make themselves available.))

I have no intention of teasing anyone but I do grow tired of the
same cycle over and over again. Eventually, the people who do not like
me or what I have to say (real or not) will win. I will either leave or
grow tired of answering the same questions.

((John is “playing you” Javier. It’s an old trick, if your most
vociferous detractor continually puts on weak attacks; it takes
attention away from the really challenging questions.))

Again, please do not confuse my inability to answer the same
questions over and over with a desire to make someone upset. I gain
nothing by angering Javier or making him look foolish.

((He knows “make a buck” and “more power to you”, and “off the cuff”.

He is unaware or dislikes “buy in” or “buy that”

Does that prove anything? not really. Given enough text you can profile him and make a good guess.))

II know my English isn’t perfect but I blame my parents for most of
the phrases I pick up (wink). It’s different sometimes seeing them in
print than hearing them. It took me quite a while to shake off “sock it
to me baby”. “Cool” seems to be the longest lived phrase I’ve heard so
far and “peace” seems to be making a comeback.

((What 82 page book written in England in 1884 is required reading
for all physics students? I admit it’s possible you may not know in
2036, but highly unlikely. The same reason that makes it so important
for physics students would make it just as important to understanding
Time travel. Secondly why is this little book so important. If he
doesn’t know this it lends more circumstantial evidence to your side.
But he could ask someone and then how do you prove that?))

Well, I’m pretty sure it’s not the Principia and it looks more like
something to do with Maxwell but to make your point, I did find this.
http://www.livingarchive.uk.com/LA.htmls/manchester.history.html

Just about anything can be looked up.

((How about this? Let John make a recording of himself saying he is
from the future and whatever other part of his story he wants. We could
submit that to voice stress analysis. Is that enough? no again, since a
well trained person can beat a voice stress analysis by using
self-hypnosis or having someone hypnotize them prior to recording.
Again no proof.))

I’ve heard a tack in the shoe works. It throws off the baseline “no
stress” readings. Also, if you speak slowly enough, you can beat those
programs.


Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-26-2001 04:42 PM

Thumbs up

John Titor,what if something happens to your device to get back,let
us say inoperable,would you then change the world by announcing
warnings,and also what if you got a flat tire inbetwwen times would you
have to pull over to fix it in a wrong time?


Posted by Lola Montez on 02-26-2001 04:47 PM

John,

I congradulate you on your restraint and good humor in responding to
some of the posters who are as tireless as an old turntable in playing
the same old song. (I include myself in this group as I know I keep
asking you specific questions regarding safe ground during the possible
trouble ahead). I still have some questions you have not responded to
but hate to ask again in the event you do not wish to respond or just
have not made your way to them yet. Could you let me know which? I will
wait to hit you with more until I know the status.

If any of you missed Dr. David Anderson on Art’s show you should go
to the archives and listen. It is about time distortion going on in New
York.

Kind regards,

Lola


Posted by Brad Brown on 02-26-2001 05:31 PM

John I’m courious. You’ve expressed a want to experience the world
as it was. However you seem to spend a great amount of time talking
about TT. Why aren’t you traveling and telling us about your latest
trip to the pyramids instead of talking about specifics you should be
bored from in your awarness to them? Are the Great Pryamids still
standing in 2036? If you wish to experience society as it was,
admitting yourself to be a time traverler is counter-productive. How’s
communication around the world in 2036. Do you still have literature
widely available? What’s the latest book you’ve read that you were only
able to hear about in your own time? Is new literature aslo so
available? Is the english language begining to segment into sects and
accents with less influence from trourists? Or is tourism still strong
and thriving in 2036. You wanted questions not in relation to stock,
here you go.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-26-2001 07:01 PM

John,

Just 1 sentence is all I get for waiting for another 5 days? Even then,
it’s nothing more then some discombobulated definition in your own
words. What dictionary did you use? Is it the dictionary you learned
English in, in the future ?

Try Oxford next time.

Why don’t you give it up John, you know this little experiment of yours
went more out of hand then you wanted it to go. Now look at you, you’re
attempting to lay-low until your window of opportunity to leave… Am I
right?

Try answering this, instead of something that was said almost 2 weeks ago.

I’m sure lots of people would like to hear you explaining your self. After all, I did expose some of your lies.

But then again, there are those here who are “fanatic” about your
cause that they still believe your from the future. Quite sad isn’t it?

What do you say to something like that? Look at all these people,
completely taking your word for it. Doesn’t that just do something for
you? You can answer too Pamela if you wish.

-Javier C.


Posted by John Titor on 02-26-2001 09:07 PM

CRAIG:

((IS your sense of “timing” off, in new time environments? I’ve
heard people who have “out-of-body-experiences” find that it sometimes
takes a day or two to regain a sense of normalcy in their minute
interactions with the physical world.))

No, my timing isn’t off. I do however find myself stoping in
mid-stride and paying extra attention to my environment when I forget
“when” I am. When I was a child, my mother would tell me stories about
angels. She told me that angels found it hard to communicate with man
because man could remember his past but couldn’t see the future.
Angels, acting as the eyes and servants of God, had no memory of the
past but had infinite knowledge of the future. Although I am no angel,
I often thought about that story after I left 2036. Besides that, I do
get a lot of colds.

((John – You were born about halfway into this cycle. BTW, GenXers
would be about 40-50 years old in 2036. How they doin’? Were they
pretty resourceful scrappers?(Fighters/Survivors))

In my opinion, the Gen Xr’s ended up in two categories. There were
the ones who had learned to be independent by breaking away from
tradition and societies expectations and the others who had no idea how
to take care of themselves and just wanted the trains to run on time.
The ones in the first group feel very guilty about “letting” the world
go to Hell and the ones in the second group are dead.


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-26-2001 10:52 PM

John – I can understand that. Being from the end of the Boomer
Generation myself, I can say that GenXers may feel that way (those who
are left) though it always appeared to me that they were abandoned
young by Boomer parents off doing “their own trip”. GenXers were the
original “latchkey kids”.

I’ll repeat this link, as I really enjoyed the book.

http://www.timepage.org/time.html

I hear their new book, forecasting the next 10 or 15 years, is also pretty interesting.

http://www.fourthturning.com/html/fourth_turning.html

Short of holding seminars, is there anything else you’d like to do while you’re here, with respect to your interaction with us?


Posted by James Dvorak on 02-27-2001 01:42 AM

Cool

can you tell me what year the police will stop busting people for
smoking weed??? after the war right?? in 2015? do they start pushing
for legalization earlier than the war???? this is the ****! Im still
workin for the community though……………………


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-27-2001 06:59 AM


John – about voice stress analysis… No, you can’t “beat” a
combination of voice stress and body language analysis. You can, under
certain circumstances, beat a polygraph, but only if the examiner is
very inexperienced. I’ve been through a few myself.

I suggest that you do your video tape of the departure. Here is why:

1) An impromtu video tape will give you an opportunity to say some
things to us as a kind of “final farewell” which we can all observe.
Then you can step into your time traveling truck and vanish for the
camera. That will give us something to think about.

2) You will be gone from our time line, and we can examine the
video tape, using voice stress and body language analysis to determine
if you were being honest to us about your trip back to the future.

3) You do not have to worry about the ramifications of the tape
because of time line divergence – and because of several things you’ve
lead us to believe you here, will not be affected in the least – nor
will your time line be affected in your time.

4) If there is any doubt in your story now (and there is apparently
with Javier’s continued chipping away at the story and your own
attitude toward him) then you can clear it up with such a tape.

5) Some of us would really like to believe, have hope for, or even
be shown that time travel is not only possible, but practical and
already (somewhere/sometime) going on. You can prove it to me, beyond a
shadow of doubt with a video tape.

Now… you’ve offered to do so. I have the resources to place said
tape up online. When our web site comes back online we will have plenty
of space to do so. (Some of you might be familiar with the site already
- anomalies.net). In any case, we will be more than willing to put up
all the photos, manual scans, video tapes and anything else you would
be willing to show us. I would even be willing to fly to whatever place
you want and film it myself, at my cost, as long as you give me a bit
of a heads up.

(and for those of you wondering, NO I am NOT doing this for the
government. I’m as curious as anyone else here, nothing more, nothing
less. I’m not in this for money, I’m not in this for personal gain -
except the knowledge that the “truth is out there”)

John… you can reach me privately through my email address on this
board. I urge you to do so, if not for yourself or us… for the future.


Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-27-2001 07:14 AM

To The Board:

Doc’s site is still not fixed and I have no doubt in my mind that he will eventually move the pictures to his other site.

But in the meantime I have all of John’s pictures and anyone who wants them can email me and I will send them to you.

My email is in my profile.

Also John and I have talked and anybody who wants to forward anything
to John can do so through my email address and I will make sure that
John recieves it.

I will do this as long as I am able.

sincerely,

Pamela

[Edited by Pamela Moore on 02-27-2001 at 07:31 AM]


Posted by Abe Figer on 02-27-2001 08:58 AM

hey I´m very interested in john titor story.. but I have some question for him……

what is going to happen to Mexico in 2035? is going to be safe
going south after de war starts?….. depending on his answer i will
give me an idea of how real his story is…


Posted by Luis Gonzalez on 02-27-2001 10:15 AM

Smile

John, email me…


Posted by John Titor on 02-27-2001 05:25 PM

LOLA:

((You say you were in the militia fighting the US Army. I would
think that civilians would have a snowballs chance in hell of
successfully fighting the military.))

You must realize that why people are fighting is more important
that what they are fighting with. The conflict was not about taking and
holding ground it was about order and rights. They were betting that
people wanted security instead of freedom and they were wrong.

((What does this look like? Is it a stalemate with the
resistance/militia hiding out until the cities are wiped out allowing
them to surface?))

The cities were not isolated because of them; they were isolated because of us.

((You site the approximate number of cities and military bases intact before the nuclear attack. Are they ALL hit?))

Nuclear weapons and guidance systems are less than perfect. Most
targets receive more than one warhead but some of them were more
accurate than others. I would estimate the overall accuracy was around
60 to 70 percent.

((Three days walk from where? The nearest city? Again, though, what population makes a city a city and not a town?))

In my experience, a motivated starving person is only capable of
walking about three days. The more distance you put between yourself
and anyone who is likey to be hungry, the better.

((Does any one or any group stay neutral during all of these years of fighting?))

Some try to.

((Does anyone just lead a reasonably normal life during the civil war?))

No.

((You say the civil war lasts from 2004 to 2008 and then the short
big one in 2015. What do the years from 2008 to 2015 look like? How
long does WWIII last.))

I’m not sure I said that exactly. By 2008, I would say the civil
conflict is pretty much at everyone’s doorstep. Western instability
during the conflict leads to the attack in 2015. WWIII is very short
with a longer period of mop up.

((You mention the nature of Canadians but I don’t think you mentioned the impact of all of this on that country. Would you?))

There’s not a great deal I know about Canada except to say they
were pretty much in the same type of conflict. They did have the Dew
Line you know.

((Oh yeah, one more thing that is rather haunting is your allusion to
the position of women as being controversial and conservative in 2036.
Yikes! What is that supposed to mean?))

It certainly isn’t disrespectful. I apologize if it sounded that
way. It’s one of those areas I realize will be difficult to discuss
because we may lack similar experiences. In 2036, there is not a desire
to “have it all”. With factors such as the difficulty in conceiving and
the decentralization of production and industry, there is not an
unrealistic scramble to have a “career” and a family. Out of necessity
and circumstance, family life has become more traditional. However,
there are many families where the wife / mother is the main breadwinner
and the husband / father remains “home” with the family. The difference
is in the method of decision-making. People do not have children (if
they are able) unless they can devote the required resources to
maintain it.


Posted by Jeff Borgus on 02-27-2001 05:39 PM

(Actually, the requests were rhetorical. No one is going back with me.))

Just like your whole story is rhetorical.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-27-2001 10:28 PM

John,

Many movies that take place in the future show an Earth under ruin, war
and famine. You have been buying into that fear people have in some
corner of their minds from the very start. Creating, what we have here
a John Titor worship board. No longer a place to discuss views of Time
Travel, and gain knowledge. More like a handout of knowledge. In other
words John, you have become these people’s prophet. You are now deeply
involved in their belief system.

My only problem with that is that it’s on a wide scale. Tell me
something, is that why the civil war started? To many people take
people like you and put them on pedestals? Lots of people can no longer
think on their own, they depend solely now on what you have to say. How
pathetic, and your future culture finds no flaw with prolonging it.
Instead, they gave one of their Time Traveler (meaning you) a device to
come to the past and exploit the chance to take and do as you and they
see fit.

That’s very nice. You’ve managed to convince a lot of good people,
honest sincere people. That your genuine, the real McCoy. That however,
may be okay with you, but not by me, not by a long shot.

Someone once brought up the example of some of these people being
sheep. At first that might have been an unfair presumption, but now
that I think about it, it’s true. And you still haven’t commented on my
request to answer my statements. What’s wrong? Why don’t you?

Let’s face it John, I’m one of the very last ones you have not
corrupted with your story. It has been your straightforward effort to
say you are from the future, and convince others of it as well. But
just look at you, look at how unprepared you were. The lies you were
caught in. And trying to recover only makes you look phonier in my
eyes.

I swear, I will expose you John. My passion and conviction in this
matter is unquestionable. Your friend Pamela can attest to that.

People like you, who use this to benefit from unknowing people,
make me sick. Time Travel is an evil means to get what you want; I
wouldn’t be surprised if your world is Satanic.

The fight is not over between you and me John. Nor will it be over any
time soon. I will continue to pursue in exposing you as a fraud, there
is no doubt about that. I don’t fear you John, I do however fear a
world that has followers like your fans. That only entices me more to
continue the fight.

If others find that silly and funny, I feel sorry for you. You’ve lost
your sense of passion for doing what’s right. You openly accept the
flaws of this world, and succumb deeper to them. Creating what we have
now, a delusional world solely dependent on everyone’s individual
beliefs. That saddens me. Call me old fashion, but that kind of
mentally is only asking for trouble. That’s the sort of mindset that
causes wars. Confusion, uncertainty, fear in the truth.

But in the end, there is no escaping what you all are. In the end,
we will all get judged, and see that instead of laughing at me, and
thinking I was a nut job, you all should have known better. It’s like
the Metaphor of the Ant and the Grasshopper. Just think about that.

Sincerely,

Javier C.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 02-27-2001 11:45 PM

All very interesting, but one nuclear bomb hitting around Colorado
would do the entire food belt in by the wind blowing. Russia’s power
plant went 1500 miles away because of the wind. I guess the wind blows
here too. Now, how far does the Earth move in 36 years traveling along
with the Milky Way Galaxy at 33 miles/second. Quite far, so how do you
manage to not space travel? The Universe is always moving. From 1975,
add another 25 + 36 years and around 61 years is where you went too.
Now the Earth has even traveled further, I suggest you all look up at
the Universe, a Supreme Being might just be praying for all of us on
the Spaceship Planet Earth.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 02-28-2001 01:30 AM

John,

When you get a chance can you post an answer to my question regarding
the “30 second” scenario that I asked about a week or so ago? Thanks.

I’ve also been wondering about how you have manage to overcome the
simultaneity problem in maintaining common worldline references between
yourself and the two micro-singularities that travel with you. As you
know, bodies under acceleration lose their initial constant velocity
worldline reference with respect to each other – the Twins Paradox.
Given that you have a possible 2.5% divergence from your own worldline
(5% on a roundtrip?)on a 60 year trip and the micro-singularities (each
having their own worldline) are subject to the same divergence, how do
you keep them in phase? Does the divergence extend into N-dimensions?
Is the 2.5% the total error or is each dimension subject to the 2.5%
divergence individually?

I understand that you’re a tech (a bus driver as it were) and not
the physicist, but how did you manage to overcome the problem of
gathering sufficient power to artificially create a micro-singularity
in such a short time (sometime prior to 2036)? I believe that it would
theoretically take the total energy output of the Sun since the time of
Richard the Lionhearted (about a thousand years) to form one
micro-singularity, let along two.


Posted by John Titor on 02-28-2001 05:55 AM

((When you get a chance can you post an answer to my question
regarding the “30 second” scenario that I asked about a week or so ago?
Thanks.))

Please take a look at page 18. If I didn’t get to everything, please expand your question.


Posted by Bob Marz on 02-28-2001 06:17 AM

I haven’t seen an answer to my issue concerning moral turpitude through action or inaction. Did I miss it?

Javier: You’ve worked yourself into a tizzy over John’s spontaneous
whim. He started this forum with a joke about coming back from the
future with the old computer and noticed people taking him seriously so
kept up the gag. I think he’s done a great job, it’s just for fun.
John has never been inflamatory, in fact he’s maintained a good-natured witty sci-fi scenario, urging people to play along.

What gives the gag a nice dynamic impact is the fact that John
stays in character and takes every question seriously, giving us
realistic answers. ala Orson Welles War of the Worlds or Blair Witch
Trial. The more John stays completely in character the better the
experience for us.

[Edited by Bob Marz on 02-28-2001 at 06:26 AM]


Posted by John Titor on 02-28-2001 06:51 AM

In order to assist in where I am in the questions, I will post the
page and person I left off with. It would also help if you could do the
same when asking when I will get to yours. Since my time is growing
short, I will be unable to answer questions that have already been
asked in some form or another and I will make a note when I come across
one.

Unfortunately, it has also come to my attention the proposed email
system for sending out the pictures is not working out. Apparently,
people on the receiving end of the requesting email are starting to
have problems with their computers. They suspect it’s coming from the
“asking” email. Before I leave, I do plan to send out a few more pages
of the manual and a video of my departure. I’m sure a method of will be
developed to do that.

Currently, I am on page 18 right before Rick’s questions.


Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-28-2001 09:13 AM

Smile

I am still getting some email inbetween the attacks. Anybody wishing
to email John in private please use my email address and I will forward
it to him. and send you a confirmation that your letter has been
forwarded to John.

I delete your mail right afterwards. so if any attack happens to
get past my security system your email will not be there for anybody to
see it. several people have the pictures already. (keep them safe!)

If you can’t get to my email please post on the board your desire for the pictures and I will make sure you recieve them.

Anybody wishing to forward a private letter to John, you don’t have much time left.

while your at it…say Hello to the future! these pages(according
to John) will be archived and posted on a web site in the future.

actually that is quite interesting..how would you prove to someone reading this in 2036 that you are really from 2001???

PEACE TO ALL!!

-pamela


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-28-2001 10:21 AM

Earth to Pamela,

Yeah, you’re gone. What happened to being skeptical? Hypocrisy I tell you. And that’s not an attack, that’s the truth.

If people do read these in the future, they’ll see how foolish you
all were to fall for his story so easily. No wonder the future looks
down on us, look at our culture, our attitudes. You have this blind
faith in a man who you all know for only 3 months.

Why not have a dialogue with me Pamela, instead of just being his supporter.

Before you would state your own thoughts. But now, your completely at
his disposal, and nod at whatever he says. And you find that normal? It
appears more like brainwashing to me.

You know I won’t attack you, I will however tell you the truth. So
accept my request, since you speak for John, you shouldn’t be afraid to
answer for him as well.

I await you.

-Javier C.


Posted by John Titor on 02-28-2001 11:14 AM

Actually, Pamela is quite quick to catch many possible discrepancies
in what I’ve said over quite a few sites in the last few months. For
example:

PAMELA ASKS: >1. What type of money system do you have on your
world line? meaning how do you buy and sell things? Do you have the
same type of money or do we have a cashless society? such as smart
cards, credit cards or ID biochips.

I RESPOND: Its not very different than it is now. Yes, we have
money and credit cards. However, like everything else, the monetary
system is decentralized. Banking is based mostly around the community
structure. There are no multinational banking or computerized economic
systems..there are also no income taxes.

QUESTION ON THIS SITE: ((Is there an IRS and a need to keep a lot of receipts and paperwork around to justify yourself?))

I RESPOND: Yes, we pay taxes.. Sounds like you don’t enjoy keeping
track of your personal income taxes. I don’t think anyone does.

MY RESPONSE TO PAMELLA: I had considered going into more detail about
the tax system but I didn’t have a great deal of time. Currently, I am
watching my father go over all his taxes and he doesn’t look like he’s
having a very good time. My comment referred to the collective misery I
see around me during this time of year.


Posted by Bridget Talarico on 02-28-2001 11:23 AM

Red face

Oh John, who am I to say “nay”, this guy’s a nut?

But let me ask you one simple question: instead of sitting at your
computer, why not present yourself to George W, proof in hand?

THAT would throw quite a monkey wrench into the government’s coverup machine, don’t you think?


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 02-28-2001 11:45 AM

John,

Thanks for the answer to the original questions. Here are some follow-ups for you to ponder.

<<Q: What is the result of the duplicates arriving simultaneously at the same place?

A: Psychological confusion and a few fist fights.>>

John, I think that you missed the point here. The problem that
needs to be addressed is what happens to the duplicates as they
simultaneously arrive at virtually the exact same location. Given that
their masses will occupy the same space, what prevents a naked
singularity from forming? (Black holes seem to be the only constructs
that can violate the Exclusion Principle. And unless the duplicates
were drunk they shouldn’t be spinning <wink> – thus a naked
singularity.)

<<Q: How long will it take for the loop to decay? Will it decay? Is it a loop?

A: The chances of hitting the precise worldline where all the other
duplicates are arriving is almost zero. It’s possible but increasingly
less probable with each arriving duplicate. The divergence decays and
the worldline is “less available” for new “yous” to arrive on.>>

It’s a nice creative answer, but it didn’t address the question.
The question was is it a loop; will it decay and how long will it take
to decay? Divergence won’t decay, unless you’re saying that the
divergence decreases (which I don’t believe is what you were
indicating). Its true that each duplicate has a decreasing probability
of arriving on the same worldline – but its an infinite number of
duplicates. Any subset of that infinity is simply a less intense
infinity, but an infinity none-the-less. The implication is that an
infinite number of duplicates will appear simultaneously. What prevents
this from happening?

<<Q: What happens if the experimenter, upon seeing his duplicate, decides not to continue the experiment?

A: He can always leave the room on his own worldline or put a desk full
of books in the position where the time machine is arriving every 30
seconds. That will probably trip the VGL system and stop the time
machines from arriving.>>

Again, nice try on the answer. But these duplicates aren’t arriving
every 30 seconds. They are all arriving simultaneously 30 seconds
before the experiment begins apparently violating Causality if the
experimenter decides to cancel the trip.

This question was a follow-up to your 2.5% worldline error problem. On
your 60-year journey you have a problem if the error is 2.5% in
N-dimensions. If your error is in the ‘t’ dimension you have a chance
to arrive back home as early as 2034 and as late as 2038. If the error
is cumulative for each leg you could arrive as early as 2032 and as
late as 2040. Arrive too early and the boss won’t have a clue as to why
you brought him a 1975 vintage computer. Arrive too late and your
haven’t helped solve the problem in a timely (excuse the pun) manner.

You’re also faced again with the Twins Paradox. In this case the
twin is you: The “you” in 2036 and 2001. Each of you is a body in
motion and under acceleration (the velocity of Earth, the Solar System,
Milky Way Galaxy and Vegan Local Group and the general expansion of the
universe are not constant.) Moreover, the distance between each “you”
is increasing at 54 km/sec. The 2036 Earth is approximately 60 billion
kilometers from where it is today. The 2.5% divergence error is not
constant. The longer you stay here in 2001 the greater the distance
between the two Earths thus the degree of error increases. The
physicists in 2036 aren’t able to help you as they don’t know where you
are and as you aren’t a physicist you’re probably not going to be able
to make the corrections from this end. How are you going to get home
safely?

John, you’re actually doing a credible job of handling this thread.
I personally don’t believe that you’re a time traveler but that’s not
the point. I have to put some thought into asking these questions. SO,
you make me think and that’s always good. Thank you.


Posted by John Titor on 02-28-2001 12:28 PM

EMMETT:

I do enjoy the questions and I appreciate the interest.

I suppose there is a difference between a thought experiment and
the real world. It appears we have our virtual laboratories confused
and I’m not sure I understood all the rules to your experiment and then
it occurred to me that in your position, this is all just a thought
experiment anyway. I will try to be more literal in my explanation.

((In this experiment the traveler only goes 30 seconds into the past to
appear in his lab. It seems that 30 seconds before his experiment was
to begin he saw himself appear in the lab. There would now be two
travelers and two time machines. It doesn’t appear that it ends that
simply as the “second” time traveler says that he saw a duplicate self
appear in the lab thirty seconds before he started the trip. It would
appear that its a time loop and an infinite number of duplicates see a
duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds prior to the start of
the trip. ))

I’m not positive but I don’t see anything that indicates the time
traveler would remain in the same spot once he arrives. 30 seconds is
almost long enough to get coffee in your thought experiment. If that
were true, and they all kept moving, than the experiment could go on
for quite a while until the planet filled with time travelers. You also
stated, “it would appear” as a time loop. If it only appears that way,
than the natural divergence may stop the experiment when three or four
time travelers arrive and the others end up on different worldlines.

((The problem that needs to be addressed is what happens to the
duplicates as they simultaneously arrive at virtually the exact same
location.))

Again, you use the world virtually, which to me means not exactly
the same spot. Under the laws of physics, I don’t personally know what
happens if it were on exactly the same spot but I do know it’s
possible. Under the operational limits of the distortion unit, as soon
as the VGL sensors pick up an unexpected mass in the target worldline,
it would shut down and drop off in a worldline where your experiment is
not occurring.

((Given that their masses will occupy the same space, what prevents a naked singularity from forming?))

I see, now they are in the same space. I suppose that’s a
possibility. If so, than the as soon as the experiment started, a
singularity would form under the infinite mass and swallow the planet.
Perhaps they tried this on Cygnus?

((It’s a nice creative answer, but it didn’t address the question.
The question was is it a loop; will it decay and how long will it take
to decay?))

Well, I think it’s a nice creative question too. Under your
example, the “loop” would terminate as soon as the singularity forms
and would be constantly fed by all the arriving time travelers.

Thanks again, I’ll follow up on the rest in a bit.


Posted by John Titor on 02-28-2001 01:05 PM

After taking a quick shower and listening to the quiet hum of my
archiving hard drives, I decided that Emmett and I may have made bad
second impressions on each other. I find it ironic because it’s people
like Emmett that will actually solve those physical issues and make it
possible for people like me to go back in time and argue with them. So
I hope, no hard feelings Emmett.

It also reminds me of a short story between a bicycle maker in the 1900s and a man who could fly faster than sound.

BICYCLE MAKER: Well Mr. Mach, if your plane can go faster than the
speed of sound, how did you solve the compressibility problem that
would tear your flimsy craft to pieces?

MR. MACH: First off, the aircraft are much more stable and made of
metal instead of wood and fabric. Second, it is possible to pass the
sound barrier by designing the wings and body to move the shock wave
down the plane as you surpass the speed of sound.

BICYCLE MAKER: Really? Planes made of metal? Well, if your plane
can fly faster than sound then why don’t you just fly to the moon?

MR. MACH: It doesn’t work that way. You need air to make the engine function.

BICYCLE MAKER: I see. Your plane can go faster than sound but needs
air to function. That’s convenient and it all sounds like a penny-book
fantasy to me.

MR. MACH: Perhaps… perhaps not


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-28-2001 02:03 PM

Give me a break John, your so full of it. Your pathetic attempts to
crawl out of a tight hole our becoming narrower and narrower to get
passed these days. Not just are you being broken down, but being
exposed as a fraud.

More discrepancies. Your a lair, you really didn’t plan on taking
anyone back with you. Yet people believed you. Still waiting for you to
apologize to everyone.

And don’t say your busy going in order trying to answer everyone’s
questions. You just skipped the rest and went straight to the most
current. How considerate you are. Others have been waiting for much
longer time, and you found it convenient to seize the opportunity to
answer something that would make you look good in the eyes of your
followers.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 02-28-2001 02:15 PM

Not that I believe you, but would not the vintage computer from 1975
be bigger than the time machine to haul back to the future? It handles
3 people, personal computers were really not out then, only a very few
people were trying to make a personal computer, and they only had kits
to put together. I mean 4kB of memory is nothing like the current crop
of computers with up to about 1gB of memory one can put in the
computer. Just some thoughts about what you are saying? It does not fit
quite right with me. If there was a War, then it seems reasonable to me
that you were not even born until all of the Wars were over. That would
make you about 21 years old from 2015 or just about 29 from 2008. It
does not add up if millions of people died from these happenings. I
just add things up logically, and from my prespective, the story does
not seem real. Oh, well, we all have to do something with our time, I
guess. I think I’ll be 90 in 2036 and right now you appear to be
younger than I am now and have not developed the critical thinking
skills that come with age on Spaceship Earth.


Posted by David R Ferguson on 02-28-2001 02:29 PM

I have finally read all of the posts in this thread and I have come
to one conclusion…it is definitely been more entertaining than
anything currently on television, except, of cours, for the televised
Illinois basketball games!

Thanks to everyone for your posts. It has certainly been very educational.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 02-28-2001 02:58 PM

John,

My friend, I have absolutely no hard feelings. To the contrary, this thread is quite enjoyable.


Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-28-2001 04:43 PM

Wink

HOLD ON JAVIER!!! IM COMING!!!!

I am grasping the tether on the front of

my outerspace suit.attached somewhere down there

to earth…Im pulling…..myself……………

right hand…over left hand…over right hand…

Im pulling myself into Earth’s atmosphere…

a little further…a little further…..(hahhah)

Ok..Javier what kind of dialogue do you want to have?

….Im here.

No, I have not lost all my skeptism and you are

constantly acting on your own assumptions and fears.

I don’t speak for John, I simply helped him out on a couple of questions he already had answered earlier.

Am I brainwashed? Of course not. That is silly!

I have talked to John for hours and hours about things.

and I know some things you don’t. John is a highly intelligent man and he is very interesting to talk to.

People are not stupid, Javier. and you know I am not.

Can’t you just enjoy the conversation in this thread?

it’s probably not going to last much longer….pretty soon John
will be gone and you won’t have to worry about him anymore.(he’ll
either drop off of the board if he is fake, or go back to future if he
is real.)

the truth may not possibly come until after he is gone.

I know you have a good heart. but you get a little carried away sometimes.

I have an email address you know if you want to talk further…

sincerely,

pamela


Posted by Angel Lynnn on 02-28-2001 07:10 PM

Exclamation

John,

Are people using “reverse speech” in courts, etc. or even recreational?

Can you talk about earthquakes in California and Nevada?

Thanks.

Angel Lynnn


Posted by Lola Montez on 02-28-2001 07:59 PM

Angel,

What’s reverse speech?

Lola


Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-28-2001 08:02 PM

Pamela,

No need to be sarcastic ya know, but thanks for finally answering one of my questions.

However, the dialog will mainly be question/answer. I said that,
because it seemed to me that I was the only one talking. You weren’t
responding to any of my questions. Neither was John.

And since your John’s little helper, you can assist him in answering for him. Make sense?

But since you said your only posting answers to questions already
asked, I fail to see how you will be of any help to me and the rest.

Yes, John maybe smarter and more interesting then me, but that
doesn’t make what I do know, any less important. Thanks for be
little-ling me .
Nonetheless, you know I can’t just stand idly by while he preaches and
others bow at his feet. I can’t stand for that, nor will I allow it.
Others must hear another side, not just his.

So if I am criticized as being afraid and acting on my own assumptions,
I don’t care. I’m not here to win the best personal image award. I am
here to speak the truth.

And you say your still skeptical; well actions speak louder then words.
I guess we won’t find out all the truth, until she leaves. Will you be
telling us more details about him, or will you conceal it still in fear
of them finding out the whereabouts of his younger self?

Your taking quite a risk trusting someone with your secrets John. Didn’t your mom teach you to be weary of a pretty face?

Just the facts though…

-J.C.


Posted by Stephen McKay on 02-28-2001 09:24 PM

Javier,

Why are you so defensive about this whole thread? I may be
mistaken, or perhaps you have a different definition of preach, I don’t
remember John _ever_ preaching. Nor any of us “worshipping” him. The
way I see it, John has made a claim which may be true or may not be.
The possibility of it being true interests some of us, so we have
questions. John’s doing his best to answer us. Maybe he’s full of it,
but I enjoy science fiction as much as the next UFO nut.

Just because we ask questions, does not mean we are shouting from
the rooftops “This man speaks the truth, he is the Messiah”. It simply
means we are willing to accept the possibility that he is telling the
truth. If he is, great, we can learn from him and look back on these
posts when we reach his time. If not, what have we lost? A few moment
of time, which, in the grand scheme of things, amount to little.

My question for you is this: If John is a fraud, what do you
personally stand to lose? What is the reason for your conviction?
Whether it’s the truth or not, it’s interesting. For my part that’s
reason enough to continue. If you don’t believe John, leave. If you’re
not interested, leave. It’s your choice. What I think is important is
that none of us are really sure whether John is telling us the truth or
not, but we’re willing to entertain the possibility.

An open mind is an important thing.

Steve


Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-28-2001 11:41 PM

Javier,

“Yes, John maybe smarter and more interesting then me, but that
doesn’t make what I do know, any less important. Thanks for be
little-ling me .”

Im sorry you misinterpreted my words in this manner.

“And you say your still skeptical; well actions speak louder then
words. I guess we won’t find out all the truth, until she leaves. Will
you be telling us more details about him, or will you conceal it still
in fear of them finding out the whereabouts of his younger self? “

I won’t be doing or saying anything that could possibly jeopardize or bring harm to John or his family.

sincerely,

pamela


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-01-2001 12:31 AM

What interests me is the need for time travel in the first place? I
think by rational thinking that time travel is impossible. Do I care
that people tell me to be open-minded? I am open-minded. What bothers
me is that people will go through so much trouble to bother with a
technology that will only occur in the very far future. I suggest that
John talks to Dr. Fred Bell, who has traveled forward in time,
according to him when he was a guest on the show, and that John tells
him how they have solved the problem of disorientation from time
travel. Now every thing is nifty with time travel, and there is no ill
effect? I like fantasy as much as the next person, but I see no Civil
War on the horizon. Only the people who would want to see a Civil War
start actually see a Civil War on the horizon. My, if I were John, I
buy a TV and a VCR player and take back the episodes of Star Wars. Try
to transcend above this physical plane of existence, and you will see
that the Force is actually a reality. Time-travel, well, its a grand
idea, but like all ideas, when rational thinking is done on the subject
instead of emotional turmoil, time-travel is so far into the future
that as I the only one who can see that?

This leads to the freedom not to be influenced by the very type of
people that always are seeking the wrong truths. People should look up
at night. In the beginning there was nothing. How long can you have
nothing? Forever! A unit of measurement has been invoked, call it
forever. A yardstick, a ruler called forever. And time was just
created. Then something was made out of the nothingness, being a
potential, and here the Universe exists in God’s Glory. God does not
leave this chance.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-01-2001 12:32 AM

Red face

Stephen & Pamela,

I have a good responds for both of you. But it’s passed 12 right now,
and I have to get up early for work. Maybe during work, I will reply to
you.

Good night,

Javier C.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-01-2001 07:17 AM

Albert wrote:” All very interesting, but one nuclear bomb hitting
around Colorado would do the entire food belt in by the wind blowing.

Russia’s power plant went 1500 miles away because of the wind. I
guess the wind blows here too. Now, how far does

the Earth move in 36 years traveling along with the Milky Way
Galaxy at 33 miles/second. Quite far, so how do you

manage to not space travel? The Universe is always moving. From 1975, add another 25 + 36 years and around 61

years is where you went too. Now the Earth has even traveled
further, I suggest you all look up at the Universe, a

Supreme Being might just be praying for all of us on the Spaceship Planet Earth.”

Albert, for the record, our government does not push the “nuclear
war survivability scenario” for a reason – they simply do not care.
Anyone who builds a bomb shelter is considered a kook. I don’t think
they are kooks. I don’t think anyone who believes in survival is a
kook. Now, why I mention that is your “wind blows” theory. Yes, you’re
correct that the wind blows generally west to east and if a ground
blast occurs there will indeed be fallout. However, understand a good
number of nuclear weapons will be air burst weapons. There will still
be fall out, but considerably less than if the weapons are ground
burst. There will be a lot of little weapons that will miss their
targets. I LIVE in Colorado, believe me I’ve studied the what-ifs
carefully, for the sake of my family. There isn’t an easy survival
answer either. (Which is why I CARRY NBC protective gear with me
everywhere I GO and my home is being slowly set up to protect us
against nuclear fallout. Won’t protect us against a direct strike, but
even in my area, I think an atomic attack will be survivable.)

The moving earth situation has been discussed at length several
times, and John’s explanation was “gravity sensors”. While I’m not
aware of anything called a gravity sensor in this day and age, I
wouldn’t discount such a thing. Physics has a way of surprising us.
Already we are sure (in physics) that there are such things as “gravity
waves” – similar in fact, to radio, light or even x-rays – all of which
are “waves”. If this is correct, and I believe it is, then there will
be very shortly a way to measure them, and therefore “sense” gravity
waves. Doing calculations and measurements could compensate for the
“movement through time” of a time ship.

Javier – Man you’re obviously taking this way too seriously.
Especially when you start insulting everyone on the list. Now, I don’t
usually take things personally, but you and I have discussed this
offline already a couple of times. While I understand your reasoning
for trying to prove John a fake time traveler (Or even if a real one,
he shouldn’t be here – if I understand your web page correctly) some of
the comments about people being sheep, followers and “believers” is a
little bit harsh.

Let me explain. I’m not a “believer” in the sense you’re implying.
That is, if John were a time traveler here and now, and was doing what
he is doing (as a REAL TIME TRAVELER) then I would have no qualms about
listening to his story.

In fact, I have no qualms about listening to it now. Regardless of
whether he is real or not, the idea of time travel, science fiction and
a ****ed good story is something I’m always “into”.

In other words, what Pamela and some others have called “attacks”
by you, might not, by you be considered such – but the rest of us do.
Basically, you insult the intelligence of everyone on this list by
saying we “are sheep”. I personally am not, and I’m sure you weren’t
referring to me personally – however, even if I DID totally believe
John, and was taken in by him, and believed he was telling the total
truth – who are you to come rescue me?

People in this world have free will. This is something SO MANY Of us
forget all to often. I protect my children and grandchildren from bad
things, because they are young and might not have the wisdom of age to
get themselves out of a situation. But, as adults, we have the free
will to believe, or disbelieve whatever we wish.

An open mind is very important in science – something a lot of
scientists even forget. Skeptism is important, but at the same time, if
you do not have an open mind to what “may be” you will never get past
the arrogance of your own mind and you might just miss the most
important discovery of all time.

About Today’s World:

In the place I work, we look at many different things, including
intelligence reports, terrorism, war in other places and in general the
“state of the world”. I study many things, related and unrelated to my
job, but most importantly we in the DoD and military tend to examine
everything, even the smallest, insignificant incidents in the world,
looking for those things that might ignite an all-out war.

If any one has been following global intelligence at all (and you
can do as good a job as the CIA on your own, if you simply know where
to look) you will see that in the United States an “awakening” of sorts
has occured regarding our personal freedoms. There are these anti-gun
nuts out there trying to ban guns – using the children as the catalyst.
Without examining the reason we have for owning guns (and it isn’t a
last week thing, this is a HISTORICAL THING) then they do us all a
disservice. America is on to them. We are on to those who would take
our freedoms and we aren’t going to let it happen without a fight.
Hence the possibility of “civil war” DOES exist today. If you’re not
close to the subject you might not see it. Those of us who are
protecting our freedoms DO SEE IT.

Russia has been “feeling it’s oats” lately… doing attack runs on
our ships, rattling their sabers (i.e. “We’ll pull our support of the
internation space station if you even THINK of continuing with National
Missile Defense – just one example). Russia has not disassembled
several nukes they said they did. Satellites show it. They just move
them now. China has linked up with Iraq – assisting them in repairing
their weapons systems – hence the attacks recently on Baghdad.

There are reports of Cubans, Chinese and perhaps North Koreans in
and around the Sonora desert (think about this to understand what it
means – basically, that is our weakest border. If *I* were going to put
a force against america, I’d come in that way).

These are just SOME of the little things. We have a kind of unrest
in America now. It could very well lead to a civil war of sorts.

Russia, China, N. Korea, Cuba, Iraq, Iran, France – and you can add
quite a few others to this list – would just love to see America on her
knees and will do whatever it is they can to help us down there. NEVER
EVER UNDERESTIMATE enemies – especially FORMER enemies (like Russia).

What I am trying to say, without being able to do so in a short
note, is that even if John is “fake” his scenarios are absolutely
POSSIBLE and even PROBABLE at this point in our time line. Those of us
who spend time checking intelligence reports can CONFIRM his social
theories about “what might be”.

In short, even if John is fake – his possibile future is accurate
for us, even now. I hope he (and I) are wrong, and I hope it won’t come
to a civil war in this country, but I have been seeing it coming for a
few years now. The thing with Russia and nuclear war – well… it is so
much more a possibility NOW than it was in the Cold War that *I* am
considering building that bomb shelter once again.

Rick


Posted by Angel Lynnn on 03-01-2001 08:06 AM

Exclamation

Some employers are using this to help them with hiring employees.
They record the interviewee talking then they reverse thier speech to
see if they were telling the truth, etc. Whatever comes out in reverse
is what was on the persons mind while speaking.

I’m curious if they are using reverse speech in courts etc. in the
future. Maybe it will be a good thing to get into and learn more about.

Angel Lynnn

[Edited by Mary Rowland on 03-01-2001 at 03:10 PM]


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-01-2001 08:24 AM

Well Rick, you seem to have a passionate belief in something as
well. Yet you blame me for having the same zest. You accuse me of being
harsh; yeah maybe I was just a tad. But you call these people who want
to take away the second amendment “nuts,” how do you think they will
feel about you saying that? So I see it as something one in the same.

I am only trying to get the message out that we shouldn’t give our
selves to easily to someone claiming to know the truth. I want freedom
too, I’d hate for it to be taken away. That’s why I’m working towards
not having that future.

Except my way, no one seems to understand. They call me crazy or
going to far. Perhaps, but if you’ve gone through the things I have,
you’d also protest. You’d want to make sure it doesn’t happen to anyone
else.

As for everyone being sheep’s, I didn’t mean you. I meant those
that stick to John like glue who can’t see another side but his.
Forgive me if I offended you, I can get pretty worked up in my
campaign.

Stephen,

You sound like your new here. Why don’t you visit my site first? I
think that’s probably the best way I can answer your questions. Learn a
little about my cause, and me and if you still have questions I’ll be
more then happy to answer them. Critical or not, I don’t run away from
questions.

Pamela,

Like I said before, I respect you for keeping what John told you in
confidence secret. I would do the same. Nor would I want his younger
self in a government facility being tested on. Because I know the
feeling of being exploited, and no body deserves that fate.

Even John…

If there is anything I hate more then liars, are people who take
advantage of others. People who exploit those to gain an advantage in
some hidden goal. Makes me sick…

Hence my hatred towards Time Travel, and Time Travelers.

Someone’s got to do something. Who here has the guts to stand up for justice in the matter of temporal violators?

I volunteer, for as long the threat shall exist.

Javier Cortez

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-01-2001 at 08:30 AM]


Posted by Lola Montez on 03-01-2001 09:19 AM

Javier,

I did check out your website and find it funny that you are possibly
the only one on this board who claims to BELIEVE in time travel
wholeheartedly yet you are the one who spends all of his board time
trying to convince us sheep that John is a fraud. You may be the only
one who isn’t skeptical. You are truly the only fanatic, so far, on
this board. John has hooked you good. The rest of us keep an open mind
(something you should consider), learn what we can and have a good time
in the process. You seem on the point of a nervous breakdown. I have
also considered the possibility that you just want as much attention as
possible and are jealous of the position John holds on the board. This
stance gets you more feedback than you would otherwise get. This may be
a subliminal motive. Isn’t there something else you want to do here
just in case time travel is as real as you think it is?

I’ll take a fraudulant time traveller over an evangelist anyday.

Baa Baa

Lola

[Edited by Lola Montez on 03-01-2001 at 09:34 AM]


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-01-2001 09:58 AM

Lola,

Your last post smells like revenge to me. This must be for what I
said to you last time. Sorry, but it was the truth. And people say I’m
harsh and hostile. I think you just took that title away from me.

I don’t care about the attention, like I said before I can care less
what others think about me. And I have no subliminal motive, because
that would go against everything I stand for.

Since my birth I have gone through experiences that cannot be explained
by psychologist. Ever see “The Sixth Sense.” Notice how angry he gets
and writes those hateful words. Well maybe you wouldn’t think it’s so
funny if you stand on the opposite end of something like that.

And as for me being jealous of John, that’s not likely. Why would I be
jealous of a Time Traveler? I hate Time Travelers. And despite all his
intelligence and fans, I still manage to out wit him now and then, and
post questions that he can’t answer. I’m very happy being who I am .
Even though the visions and manifestations get out of hand at times,
I’m fortunate to have this life, a good family and friends.


Posted by John Titor on 03-01-2001 11:31 AM

BOB (from 18):

I must preface the following with a bit of melodrama. I feel a bit
unqualified to answer the next few questions for the following reason.
The way you and I look at life and death and its relative value is
radically different. As any other soldier can tell you, once you watch
a man’s arm come off from a bullet you just fired or have been close
enough to feel someone’s last breath on your face, it changes you. I
can only describe it in two distinct waves. The first feeling is power.
You won when it counted and survived. All the personal shortcomings and
faults you’ve carried with you your whole life just melt away in a
savage euphoria. If there’s time to think about it, the next wave comes
shortly after and is underlined by overwelming guilt. You just killed
someone and now God might be ticked off. Fortunately, the second
feeling goes away quickly when the shooting starts again and gets
shorter and shorter after every battle. After all, why would God put
you in this situation? The point is, I personally do not like going
through that cycle and the decisions I make about life and death might
not be the ones you would expect me to make.

((How come it doesn’t bother you that people may die through your
inaction yet you find it “morally wrong” that you might affect lives by
active involvement?))

I’m not sure I said it didn’t bother me, I only stated I won’t
interfere on purpose. Again I refer to a historical example. Before
Pearl Harbor was attacked in 1941, a small group of US soldiers were
experimenting with a new technology called RADAR. As the Japanese
planes were flying toward the island, they actually picked them up in
time to thwart the surprise attack. Unfortunately, they were unfamiliar
with the equipment and figured it wasn’t working correctly. As you are
aware, the ruthlessness of the Japanese “sneak” attack galvanized the
US people into entering WWII.

As a time traveler it would be easy for me to take a short hike up
that hill where the RADAR operators were and point out to them that
indeed the equipment was working just fine and they should probably
call it in. Assuming they believed me, it is arguable that my lone
single action could start a chain of events that would allow the US to
meet the Japanese planes and stop them from attacking the battleships.
As a result, the US people would still be angry but not motivated to
enter the war fully since the Japanese were not a precieved threat.
Thus, you don’t begin research on the atomic bomb until well after
Hitler has already dropped a couple on London.

I could save thousands of men on the Arizona at the cost of millions in
London. I just don’t know how one life will affect another. However, if
I were standing next to a soldier who was about to be shot by a passing
Japanese plane, I would push him to safety. I realize this is
inconsistent on a small scale but I am tired of watching people die in
front of me. If there is a price to pay for that than so be it.

((Isn’t it just as morally wrong to affect lives through inaction as it is through action? Hint: The answer is YES.))

Why are you concerned about what I might do to corrupt your
worldline when you have no problem letting other people do it around
you every day? Do you blame yourself for not taking any action right
now to “save” people living on your streets or suffering from poverty
and disease? Besides, how exactly would you propose I decide who to
tell and who not to tell? (provided I knew anything at all).

((Your immediate decision, in itself, is its own authority.))

What God judges about my decision is the only authority. Again, all the things you claim I can do you are capable of also.

((If good and evil achieve a balance in the larger picture, as you
suspect, and all life is “God” experiencing physical manifestation, the
question of you being required to decide who lives or dies is moot.))

It’s not moot to me. To tell you the truth, I’m afraid. I don’t
want the responsibility of being expected to know who lives and who
dies. I know it would change me for the worse. Besides, how can you be
sure my “inaction” now isn’t a result of something I’ve already screwed
up and I’m trying to fix it? Javier might be right after all. Thanks
for the good questions.

I am on Lola’s question at the top of 19.


Posted by Stephen McKay on 03-01-2001 05:23 PM

Javier,

I’ve been following this thread from the start, but only posted
once or twice. I had a read of your site. Let me see if I can get this
straight – It’s not so much that you don’t believe John is a Time
Traveller, you just wish to uncover his secret agenda? I don’t mean to
sound sarcastic, from what I read on your site you seem to believe in
Time Travel, you’re just not a fan of it.

I’ll make sure that this is where you’re coming from before I comment on it…

Steve


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-01-2001 07:49 PM

Stephen, or do you prefer Steve?

Yes, I do strongly believe in time travel. And it’s not so much
that I believe John is a time traveler as well, but yes I like
uncovering people’s lies when they make grand accusations like that. So
far, I have to say John is very clever. But personally I don’t like
Time Travelers, so I can’t be like you or the rest and listen to him.

Basically like I said, I’m a paradox. My way of thinking may at times
be inconsistent, but that’s how I have always been. It’s my curse. To
believe in something, and experience it first hand, and to then shake
it off and say it’s not real.

Sorta like a double personality, but not really. But I’m not crazy , I can however get really angry at times.

I guess I’m just following in the footsteps of my great great great
great great great great great ancestor. I’m someone with conviction,
just how he was. And if it weren’t for him, there would be no Mexico.
Not that he was a good man, and not that he was a bad man either. He
was a man with great conviction.

I try and do as I see morally right with my conviction. And I always choose integrity above all else.

Javier C.


Posted by Daniel Kirkbride on 03-01-2001 09:42 PM

Javier,

I am curious as to what drives you to so passionately need to “save”
people from what they want. To over simplify things for the sake of
brevity, some are following this thread in the pursuit of entertainment
and their own curiosity, and others are willing to buy whatever snake
oil is closest at hand to make their lives more interesting. Exploring
possibilities and boundaries is both healthy and fun. On the occasion
that it becomes unhealthy and obsessive, well that’s just natural
selection. At least in this situation those more prone to get carried
away are free to choose their own poison in whatever dose they see fit.
You yourself being a perfect example. Besides, if everything john says
is absolutely true, what harm has been done? Any changes in this
particular world line are specific and inevitable and alterations are
only alterations to those with the perspective of light cones dipped a
couple of degrees off the beaten path. For those naturally in our
specific world line the only change made is the change that was going
to be made anyway. For john any change does not affect his own world
line for the same reasons. The only change is in the degree of
difference between these two lines, which is only evident from an
outside perspective, but that variance is absolute. In short, it is
possible to go back in time and kill you parents, but only by traveling
to the world line where that is what happens. You can then decide out
of remorse to go back and kill yourself to save your parents, but only
by going to the world line where you do that. However this does not
change the world line where you successfully commit parricide, because
in that line they did die. Future and past within a specific world line
is absolute. Time travel merely grants the traveler the unique ability
to recognize variances between world lines. Therefore, any changes to
our world line are actually not really changes, because our tomorrow
will be what it is going to be and will not change when looking at it
from the perspective of the day after tomorrow. So no matter how
insidious or innocuous johns “secret agenda” is, he cannot affect any
changes that he is not going to affect anyway. It’s a battle that can’t
be won because in our future it already has or has not been. I know
this all sounds a little convoluted, but the mathematics behind it all
are actually rather simple. Which brings me to a question for John.

John,

I don’t mean to suggest that I accept any of what you claim, but I do
have a technical question. Are the singularities in your machine
supposed to be offsetting the light cones of particles within it’s
sphere of influence allowing the world lines of these particles to
appear to loop form the perspective of particles outside the effected
area? I don’t mean to insult you by spelling out the obvious to you so
basically, but that seems the most obvious need of a singularity. If
so, how can you account for generating a gravity well deep enough to
create such a disparity between light cones without sucking the planet
through the eye of a needle? Also, this requires motion through the
space immediately influenced by the mass, yet you claim travel is
accomplished while the traveler is stationary. I look forward to your
response….


Posted by Stephen McKay on 03-01-2001 10:02 PM

Javier,

Probably prefer Steve, but it doesn’t really bother me. As far as I
can see John is not making accusations but claims. I also think it is
important to uncover deception, but I’m not sure what makes you so sure
that John is lying.

He may slip up, but he’s only human, as are we all. I just don’t
think the point lies in whether or not John is from the future. He’s
made his claim and unfortunately there is no proof either way. As much
as you may believe it, I don’t think you can use his posts to disprove
his claims, nor can they be used to prove them.

The point is that what he says is fascinating. Millions of people
go to see psychics and fortune tellers, not because they believe they
are seers and everything they say is true, but because they are
curious. I think that is the same attitude of most people asking
questions of John. If John did tell us of a company whose worth jumps
drastically in the next few years, I honestly doubt that anyone on this
thread would invest their savings in that company.

They’re not devoting their lives to John’s words, they’re just
interested. As I said earlier, if John’s telling the truth, then we all
get a sneak peek and preparation for the future; if not, then all we
get is an entertaining story. If we read this thread in that light,
then we have nothing to lose.

Steve


Posted by Michael E. Hendrickson on 03-01-2001 10:32 PM

Regarding your 2-21-01 comments on my first post,i.e.,

that I should view the video “Waco,The Rules Of Engagement” to get
a better understanding and appreciation(I suppose)for federal law
enforcement personnel acting criminally beyond the pale. And ,you asked
rhetorically,( I may be paraphrasing somewhat) “if the allegations made
in this piece were proven to be true, what would you hope would happen,
nothing?”

My answer to that is that if these allegations were proven to be
true I would not have hope, but rather every confidence that our
criminal justice system would prosecute and convict whoever the
criminal perpetrators turned out to be, whether federal cops, or
otherwise(thereby obviating the need for citizen uprisings).

The ATF,followed by the FBI, clearly blundered at

Waco, causing the needless deaths of some 80 of our citizenry. However, to charge these federal officers

with criminal violations of the law either directly or

impliedly as is done in this video, simply doesn’t accord with the real facts. Actually, there’s some evidence now

to suggest that not only the FBI, but other federal as well as
state and local law enforcement agencies have learned something from
the Waco tragedy, and will take great care not to repeat it.

This, of course, goes directly against your predicted scenario for the next 11 years, which posits a series of

Waco type events crescendoing ,finally, in a full blown civil war,
with honest citizenry from the heartland (with shotguns, I suppose)
battling the evil forces of our federal government

Baloney! This is the typical paranoid militiaman mentality which manifests itself often in your writings,in

references to federal policemen conducting illegal searches

and engaging in other depredations against innocent

citizens. I guess all these things happen after our Constitution is suspended, and our republlican form of

democratic government, now 225 years old, all comes crashing

down in less than a dozen years, under your projected scenario. More nonsense.

Perhaps, your mentor and guide is that goofball from West Virginia
(I can’t recall his name)who has written and sold a militiaman’s manual
of sorts,and which I think makes many of the same kinds of predictions
which you have been making. I know that I previously wrote that I
thought,

perhaps, the inspiration for your story of our near future was a
science fiction novel. However, now that I’ve given the matter some
further thought,I beleve a good part of

it may come from this militiaman’s manual. MH

[Edited by Michael E. Hendrickson on 03-01-2001 at 11:11 PM]


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-01-2001 11:43 PM

I can save you all a bunch of rhetoric. It’s a matter of principal that drives me.

I don’t believe John is a Time Traveler. It’s the principal behind
it all that motivates me to question him though. It’s what makes my
blood boil; it’s my outlet to speak out. And like I said before, maybe
if you’ve gone through what I have, you’d also want to protest Time
Travel.

Time Travel = Exploitation


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-01-2001 11:45 PM

I’ll be gone soon. I really do not have time for this. First of all,
to Rick, everyone wants to protect their family. The reason I can not
buy into this is: if John is making up a story, it is a very wrong
thing to do. The interests of the day are the same ones from back in
the ’50s. People were building bomb shelters, and by the 1960′s, I was
there, everyone thought that no one would survive a nuclear war. It is
self-evident. The US alone has more nuclear weapons that would blow up
this Planet a 100 times over. I had 32 nuclear missiles aimed at me
every second of every minute of every hour of every day for the thirty
years this Cold War was going on. By the 1970′s smiling Pres. Jimmy
Carter said, “Its MAD”, Mutual Assured Destruction. If we are to have a
War, we will not stop until everything is utterly completely destroyed
for we can not win a Nuclear War. Carl Sagan came out in the 1980′s and
said if too many nuclear missiles are released in even a limited
nuclear war that it would cause a nuclear winter. If anyone survived,
there would be no food, and like in the past when the dinasours
disappeared, humans would just die off. No one wins in a Nuclear War.
In the 1980′s Pres. Reagan said exactly that, “If you launch, we
launch, if we launch, you launch”. “NO ONE WINS”. Everyone dies. We
will start Star Wars, to protect ourselves. Of course Star Wars the
movie was out in 1980 and told us about something new, a new way of
looking at things, yes, the Force. Use the Force. What do you think
people have been doing? It commonly referred to as a Relaxation
Response Method. You block out negative thoughts coming into your head,
by conscious effort, and say something like “Cancel, cancel.” This
takes practice and effort to reprogram your brain. What we have now in
the US is people who do not know these techniques. We have been doing
this since about 1985. Star Wars Reagan began a process that nuclear
weapons would be reduced. Now in the 1990′s, Saddem was not going to
get by with his “Naked Agression” and thats exactly what Pres. Bush
meant. Now Pres. Clinton signed an Accidental Nuclear Release Treaty
with Pres. Boris Yelstein. If terrorists get ahold of a nuclear device,
we will call first, to avoid an all out exchange of nuclear missiles.
Some in the US, as some in Russia, think a Nuclear War is winable, IT
IS NOT. This has been proven time and time again. Yet minor countries
like North Korea or major countries like China or India or Pakistan
want to continue on with developing longer ranged nuclear missiles.
They already have them. The point is the SDI defense, making nuclear
missiles obsolete. How? That’s easy. It’s still the same with the US.
We have more nuclear weapons than Russia. If anyone launches a all out
War, the US will literally destroy this entire Planet. AND WE MEAN IT.
We have lived it, so when someone comes and says I am from the future,
and there is a Nuclear War and a Civil War, I say “Bull”. Every country
in this world knows that the US will destroy this entire Planet if it
needs too. There will not be a limited Nuclear War in my estimation.
Having all lived through this 50 years of crap, makes us not be
interested by annoying people claiming this or that after having a Cold
War with Russian leaders. We are not amused at this type of behavior.
This will not cause a Civil War, or a Nuclear War, got it.


Posted by John Titor on 03-02-2001 05:46 AM

DANIEL:

((Are the singularities in your machine supposed to be offsetting the
light cones of particles within it’s sphere of influence allowing the
world lines of these particles to appear to loop form the perspective
of particles outside the effected area?))

No, that’s not how it works. The singularities are used to manipulate
gravity around the observer. The singularities do not interact with any
matter except the electrons that are injected onto its event horizon.
The hazardous areas of gravity are quite small and exist only around
the inner singularity ring and another area created in the gravity
sinusoid outside the vehicle.

((I don’t mean to insult you by spelling out the obvious to you so
basically, but that seems the most obvious need of a singularity.))

No insult taken. I would imagine we both agree that standing behind an operating jet engine is an unhealthy thing to do also.

((If so, how can you account for generating a gravity well deep enough
to create such a disparity between light cones without sucking the
planet through the eye of a needle?))

The gravity well created by the singularities is not that large.
The portion of the field that is felt by the operator is about the
equivalent of 2 Gs. I would urge you to examine a Penrose diagram for a
Kerr black hole. As you are probably aware, the singularity is donut
shaped and exhibits two event horizons. The singularities are used to
“simulate” a path through the center of one of these singularities
which is what takes the observer to an alternate worldline. Earlier in
the thread I did go into this in a bit more detail.

((Also, this requires motion through the space immediately influenced
by the mass, yet you claim travel is accomplished while the traveler is
stationary.))

The unit must be stationary during operation due to the sensitivity
of the gravity sensors. Any motion with an acceleration component would
throw the gravity measurement from the signularities off.


Posted by Joe Applebaum on 03-02-2001 06:12 AM

I’m new and I didn’t get a chance to read every post up to this point, so I’m sorry if my questions are repeats.

1. Could you explain your theory about worldlines? Are there

infinite worldlines? Are all worldlines separate or

connected to each other in some way?

2. Where did you attend High school and what year did you

graduate? Was it difficult?

3. What college did you attend, what year did you graduate?

Would you estimate that your college life was similar to

ours in our worldline?

4. Hypothetically: If you fell in love with someone here

(lets say Pamela) and you took her “back to the future” with you
in your timex machine, wouldn’t that act upset both of our worldlines
especiall if she were pregnant? Or all of the worldlines,assuming time
travel is possible? Conversly, If you were gay and you took a gay man
back with you, would that disrupt the worldlines less, assuming the
both you could not bear offspring.

5. Have you had a chance to watch a movie here that you had

already seen in your 2036 wordline? If so, did they have

the same endings?

Thank You, looking foward to your replies.


Posted by Bob Marz on 03-02-2001 06:45 AM

John: Thanks for your response. I understand the dilemma and
paradoxes involved in the moral questions. I’m still not convinced,
though, that of the two basic choices of involvement/noninvolvement
when faced with an immediate moral dilemma, you find inaction okay but
action (active intervention) suspect. I don’t see why you don’t regard
them equally.
Example: I’m at a blind intersection and I see a bus barreling down on
a man who’s crossing the street. Would God condone me staying out of it
because I feared the moral ramifications of the myriad future
scenarios? This kind of second-guessing would prevent any immediate
action. Lifeguards, firemen and cops would be rendered obsolete. With
such a standard I could leave a kitten up a tree, a wandering child
outside on a cold night, a blind woman headfirst in a snowbank, on and
on, because I really don’t know what affect these living beings will
have on future events.
How can a God expect you to be omniscient, that’s His job. Since you’re
not omniscient you’re not responsible, which is what I meant by “moot.”

There are an infinite amount of variables. Therefore the Pearl
Harbor scenario is ambiguous. You don’t know that involvement of a
timetraveller would prevent a nation’s motivation. Or that it wouldn’t.
Or that your inaction is any more moral than involvement.

What concerns me is that your reasoning endorses any sort of
noninvolvement in day-to-day events – yes, even cowardice. All the
lives that Schindler saved, for example? He should have simply stayed
out of it because one of their descendants might someday become a
second Hitler? I’m sure those he saved would have a different opinion.

I need to think about this more.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-02-2001 08:01 AM

Javier: [Well Rick, you seem to have a passionate belief in
something as well. Yet you blame me for having the same zest. You
accuse me of being harsh; yeah maybe I was just a tad. But you call
these people who want to take away the second amendment “nuts,” how do
you think they will feel about you saying that? So I see it as
something one in the same. ]

Javier, I do have a passionate belief in something – the
Constitution. But, you misunderstand a bit. I’m not BLAMING anyone for
anything. Let me see if I can say this simply… we all want to learn
something. By you (or anyone) denying outright the existence of
something – or attacking it directly as a “bad thing” without listening
to both sides, you deny the chance for observation, and therefore,
learning. Nothing against your methods, but, to put the problem into
the perspective that “this is simply wrong” without back up
justification for it being wrong – other than your own perception
(which some of us might not understand) makes it hard for anyone to
follow the story. I just have a problem with anyone lumping EVERYONE
that doesn’t have the same beliefs as that person (doing the
‘lumping’), in the same category.

As for your example of my calling the anti-gun people “nuts” – it
isn’t the same thing. We do not know the “history of time travel” but
we DO know the history of Europe and America and that many, many times
history has shown that tyrants take arms from the people to keep
themselves in power. This has been repeated over and over throughout
history. Our history, our time line. So, I could care less if they are
“upset” by me calling them nuts. They are, plain and simple, ignorant
people who do not know or understand their own history – and who use
emotionalism to take something away. They are wrong and by my
defination they are nuts. You are calling everyone sheep who are going
along with the story line here, because they are curious, wish to
learn, understand or perhaps even believe that there is some truth to
the story. There is nothing wrong with someone following along or
playing along with the story, it certainly does not make them sheep.

The difference is, we do not know for certain Time Travelers can
affect the world time line of ourselves. If they can and do, we
WOULDN’T KNOW IT! If, as in John’s example, he goes up the hill and
helps the Radar folks (and I’m very familiar with not only this
particular story, I’m familiar with various historical changes that
MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED because I’ve written a paper on that VERY subject
many years ago in college) – then there might have been changes that
would have prevented us from entering the war, developing the bomb
before Hitler and perhaps we would all be speaking German today. So if
that happened because of a time traveler… would we know it? How do we
know that someone DIDN’T interfere already ALLOWING US TO WIN THE WAR?
We do not know this.

Michael E. Hendrickson: Just a couple quick comments, because I am
not sure I understand where you’re coming from. Apparently you have a
problem with “militia” people. I’ll tell you this from my point of
view, with 26 years of military and goverment service, having sworn to
protect and defend the Constitution. I have been on both sides of this
fence. The Constitution is first. Before anything else. Militia people
- those who fancy themselves as protectors of the Constitution – are.
They are very keen on what is going on in the world today. They will be
backed up by military members should a “civil war” ever occur in this
country. The military will protect the Constitution first. You see, the
government is by, of and for the people – meaning that people run it.
People are part of this country and people are corruptable, regardless
of your belief that they aren’t.

In the past six months, several illegal raids by the BATF have occurred
in Mesa, Arizon. I will give you the opportunity to look up the
information yourself, because you won’t find it in the normal media.
But you will find that people like the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
organizations have been tracking these things. So, the government, run
by people who make mistakes DO MAKE MISTAKES. And they need to get
their act together before a lot more people become aware of their
mistakes. I don’t care if you’re anti-gun or not, that’s fine. But if
you are (not you personally, but “you” in the generic sense) then you
are unaware of the GOOD that guns can do – or simply do not care (this
is not directed at you Michael, but the general anti-gun people who say
things similar to what you did).

And for the record – just because you’re paranoid, it doesn’t mean
people ARE NOT OUT TO GET YOU! Remember that. A little paranoia goes a
long way to keeping people honest. That is a fact. In my current
position, if I WEREN’T paranoid, I couldn’t get my job done!!!!!!!!!!!!

Albert Cattoir: Albert, I’m not sure if you were trying to teach me
something or not. You didn’t tell me anything I did not already know
and understand. Let me tell you something… I have lived in Detroit
Michigan, Oklahoma City, Washington, DC and Colorado Springs – among
other places. All of those places had dozens of nuclear warheads
pointed at them during the cold war. Some STILL have nukes aimed at
them (specifically where I live now, at NORAD. So, like you I’ve lived
under that shroud as well.

I was there with Reagan and Bush. I wear a belt buckle George H. W.
Bush gave me just prior to his inaguration – not that it has bearing on
this conversation, but it shows at least to me and my family that I’ve
been there through some of the most important moments of history in the
20th century. I was there when the wall fell. I was there when the
Iranian rescue mission failed. I was there, and shot at several times,
during the contra days in the late ’70s. I understand and fully aggree
with the old SDI projects, and now NMD. That’s my job… I want it to
succeed and work. I would love nothing more than to see nuclear weapons
become an obselete, even archane and useless weapon.

So, please do not assume that because you were there, the rest of us were not. As to your last comments….

[There will not be a limited Nuclear War in my estimation. Having all
lived through this 50 years of crap, makes us not be interested by
annoying people claiming this or that after having a Cold War with
Russian leaders. We are not amused at this type of behavior. This will
not cause a Civil War, or a Nuclear War, got it.]

In your estimation – opinion, there will not. In MY estimation – it
CAN happen and will if the opportunity presents itself to those who
wish to see American fall.

Denial, however, is a symptom from which we all suffer from time to
time. We do not want to see bad things come to pass and therefore deny
it can possibly happen. Civil war can be caused by many things. In our
country – a place considered by us Americans to be the best place in
the world to live, it hasn’t happened since the 1870s… a barbaric
time in history. Now, we believe we are above that. I hope we are.
However, look around you. Examine the distrust people have for a
growingly powerful government that can arrest you for even THINKING bad
thoughts today. The so-called “Hate Crimes” bills they keep trying to
pass are a good example. Who cares what you and I think about each
other, or someone else? Only those who feel “threatened” by our
thoughts. Why should I bow down to someone who believes I SHOULD NOT
THINK A CERTAIN WAY? Civil war is not only POSSIBLE in this country, if
trends in social behavior continue, and government continues to grow at
an exponential rate, taking more and more of YOUR MONEY then more and
more people will become dissatisfied.

Limited nuclear war is NOT impossible and under some circumstances,
very probable. You seem to forget that our national policy is to use
nuclear weapons if attacked by anyone with any weapons of mass
destruction. That is, if some city in the US, or military personnel (or
embassy) were attacked with nuclear, biological or chemical weapons,
our response would be swift, and severe. A nuclear strike on the
perpetrators WILL happen. At that point it becomes a limited nuclear
war. (If something I saw yesterday has any truth, then we were so close
to a nuclear war during the Kursk incident, you people will pee your
pants!)

John’s being on this forum and making the claims he makes points
out that there are indeed social problems today with which we all live.
Those social problems, indeed the world problems we observe all around
us from Israel to Russia, from Central America to Washington DC show
that we live in an unstable world, in the 21st Century. Our actions -
those actions of individuals – touch the lives of many, many others
around us. People we know and do not know will be touched by one thing
you do today.

If John is a time traveler, out of his own time line, then he exists
here today because of something some scientists did some time ago, just
as some people, perhaps entire families DO NOT EXIST TODAY because of
the actions of some other scientists in 1945 at the Trinity site in New
Mexico.

Today might be the day that a new Einstein is born, or dies due to
an accident. Today might be they day aliens land and make first
contact. I doubt that any of these things will happen, but that doesn’t
make it impossible. Keeping our minds open to the possibilities of WHAT
MIGHT BE only helps us to prevent the evil things that might befall the
human race. To deny that evil can happen, denies good the chance to
defend itself.


Posted by John Titor on 03-02-2001 08:07 AM

I plan to address the previous questions in more detail but I thought this was interesting and might add something.

Lola States: ((I postulate that you actually do not have any more of an
advantage or responsibility than the person who grabs someone who is
about to step off the curb and get hit by a bus. I would not stop and
think ‘gee, I don’t know, do they deserve to be saved from the fate of
a roadkill?’ A doctor or priest does not take it upon himself to decide
who should be helped. A jet pilot doesn’t stop to think “Hey, air
travel is pretty unnatural, these people should have to walk and row
their way to Paris. I am messing with the way time and space is
perceived and the nature of reality with this form of transportation.”
Time travel is just another form of transportation in one sense. Our
possible new ability to time travel in the future may not seem any more
exotic than our ability to access other cultures is now.))

I agree with this also.

((Why is it different than using a jet to go to a primitive tribe
and give them, say, antiobiotics. (never mind the problems with
antibiotics)It is a high tech way of interfering with a culture. Who
cares what time zone. Ethically isn’t it the same?))

JIM:

(( Are you posting on other (non time travel related) boards
without revealing your status as a time traveler? Is the conversation
as interesting? What are your conclusions so far?))

Not really, there are a number of science rooms and other chats I
do visit and just sit and watch. I have discovered that people who
frequent this board and some others have the most open and creative
minds. I realize no one actually believes me but they are still able to
look past that and ask some very important and interesting questions.

CRAIG:

((… are, or were, you in contact with TTs in 2036, and if so, what
percentage of the people accept it as possible? After the flight of the
Wright Brothers at Kitty Hawk, it took 10 plus years for people to
accept it as anything more than just an urban myth.))

The general public was informed about time travel around 2034. Yes,
I have had conversations with other time travelers on my home
worldline. Your insight on the public is more or less correct. I would
say 60% of the people realize what it is and the possible implications,
20% of the people don’t care, 10% don’t believe it and another 10% see
it as something that should be banned and stopped.

DOUG:

((Likewise, imagine if a time traveler from the future came to this time period and told us the secret of time travel.))

Yes, imagine that. Do you think that would be a good thing or a bad thing?

RICK:

((John – commercials. They are ignorant commercials. In fact,
almost every commercial on television these days are either totally
stupid (so they come out funny), or they are aimed at people whose
humor suffers from being “in the black” a lot. Black humor seems to be
the way things go these days. I don’t much care for it.))

Back in the 50s and 60s, television commercials were pretty
straightforward. Usually along the lines of, “Cheese! It’s good! Buy
cheese.” In the 70s, there was more identification with a producer or
trademark but the commercials were still pretty easy to understand.
“Buy this beer, it tastes great!” Today, I have no idea what some
commercials are advertising until they show the logo at the end. Do you
find this more effective? Only recently have I seen this move toward
dark humor. I’ve never seen anything like it before, even in “your”
archives in 2036.

FLIP top of 20


Posted by Lola Montez on 03-02-2001 12:01 PM

Rick,

Your post brought to mind a conversation I had with a woman from
Yugoslavia several years ago just a few months before the war started
there. She was very adamant that there could be no real civil strife.
Everyone got along very well, there were mixed marriages, mixed
neighborhoods and in general everyone and everything was very
civilized. Not a year later they were in a full civil war and doing
unimaginable things to one another.

This woman was a University philosophy professor who had spent her entire life in Yugoslavia.

As you say, anything can happen.

People are the same EVERYWHERE. It is foolish to imagine that
things that happen in Cambodia, Yugoslavia, Africa and have happened
here are now no longer possible because we are now so evolved and
civilized. History has the most important lessons for us yet we are
unable to learn from them (or maybe it is truly impossible for us to
change). But one thing is for sure-History repeats itself.

Lola


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-02-2001 01:13 PM

Lola… you’re right, and I think you said what I was trying to say in a short note. Thanks.

In America, we look around us and see a civilized society – where
gangs, criminals and hoodlums carry guns illegally every day, and USE
THEM – but law-abiding, non-violent people are denied the ease of
obtaining or carrying weapons with which to defend themselves.

Obviously, this is not everywhere. I think 37 states now have Right
to Carry laws now. Colorado, where I live has limited issue licenses
for concealed weapons.

The point here is that LITTLE things like this challenge us every
day. People somehow feel that “a new law” will fix a problem, when
really, only common sense – and an understanding of previous laws would
really fix the problem. I bring the weapons situation up, because it is
a daily concern in my life, as well as the lives of many around me. It
is a “hot button” issue for a LOT of people. You either want gun
control or you want no gun control.

There are those who want to be in the middle (like a certain
Congressman who hears from me weekly anymore) and concern yourself with
“common sense gun laws” – which still ban guns to some extent.

These hot button issues cause people to get upset and DO SOMETHING
about the situation. Sometimes one side takes it futher than the other
side, which then escalates the situation.

No… there is no reason to believe that we will never have another
civil war in this country, and there is definately no reason to believe
there will never be a nuclear strike on ourselves or another country.
Whether or not either of these scenarios would be survivalable is
debatable but moot – since the possibilities exist that civil war,
and/or nuclear war (whether limited or all-out) still exist.

The American or Western culture to which most of us posting here
belong, are different in some ways than other countries. But, we are
all still human. Humans make mistakes, misinterpert information, and
humans simply in large numbers have differences of opinions. Humans…
kill their own kind too.

Sorry for getting a bit off topic, but I’m still stuck on the Time
Traveler Predictions John has given us. While John might not be a real
time traveler, I can see merit in his statements.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-02-2001 01:29 PM

Don’t get me wrong. I like the topic of time travel. Its been known
that every civilization that has had something new given to them, say
antibiotics, new medicine, or a new belief, has been known to
eventually destroy themselves. The same way if we ever met a alien not
from our Planet. This supposedly has happen, so has time travel. So,
the end result is because we were exposed to this, this civilization as
we know it, destroys itself. The same question in a form is still asked
today:

If a human walks outside and there is a dark cloud overhead, the
human says “I think I will grab an umbrella, it may rain”. The other
human walking outside with the first human, says “You will not need an
umbrella, if no human exists, then no human will know that there was a
dark cloud overhead.” Which type of human are you, either one or both,
or most important, to answer to yourself, why? If we think that
humanity will destroy itself, then maybe our prophecy will fulfill
itself, if we think the other way, then John may be already be in an
alternate reality in a parallel universe in which case, the future as
he knows it never happens. It reminds me of the show with Jonathan
Burke about the book, “Connections”.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-02-2001 03:11 PM

Typing of “Connections”:

How can John assume that as dangerous humans on this Planet, we won’t
kart off his 500lbs. time machine, so we develop time travel by the
year 2036?

How can anyone go to jail for stealing a toy that was made in the future?

Do not worry, John, we will help get you back to your own reality
and own real parallel Universe, so you can travel back in time by the
year 2036. You may have to go through a few alternate realities and
parallel Universes, but you will get back to the future.

Any second of any minute of any hour of any day before you leave, we may interfere with your plans?

Do we fulfill any future prophecy by doing this, afterall we assume that we really are dangerous humans on this Planet?

I do not assume that it will be me who does this, it may be someone else, who can tell?


Posted by John Titor on 03-02-2001 03:14 PM

FLIP:

((Is spiritual awakening a difficult process; if yes, then why is it so difficult, and are we all capable of it?))

Personally, I believe spiritual awakening is difficult. Why? I
think God wants us back but the road we have to haul is no picnic.
Maybe he’s a little angry for some reason.

I think the world is seductively clever in its presentation. “It” wants
us to stay here and it distracts us from God by creating want, greed
and four or five other motivations. Our goal should be to; yes, have
faith and do good deeds but also look past that and have the wisdom and
knowledge to realize that this place, this world, this universe is not
really our home. The question I ask myself is not can I get to God,
it’s am I prepared for what will it be like when I get there.

RANDY:

((There are plenty of great mysteries, but if your only aim its to ‘get to God’, it is not necessary to solve them.))

I mean mysteries not of this world. For example: I suspect that the
final thing we will have to give up to get to God is our free will. Do
you think many people will be standing at the pearly gates saying “yes”
to that one if they had a choice to come back here?

((What do you see for the future of TT in your world-line?))

That’s a good question. I am hopeful that one day when we get the
planet cleaned up it will be a nice place to live on again and no one
will want to leave it. On the other hand, if time travel were
commonplace right now, I think a great many people would leave and
perhaps never return. There is also a suggestion that time travel might
make an interesting punishment. However, I don’t think we have the
right to force criminals on unsuspecting worldlines and sending them to
the Stone Age might be a bit much.

JEANETTE:

((I had met someone, a year or so ago, who said he was from the year
2036 also. He said something happened to make this travel all the more
possible. He gave me some details, I wonder if they are the same as
yours.))

Although not impossible, I doubt there is another time traveler
here from 2036. I have been chatting on and off for quite a while and
in other chatrooms. I have also seen and heard about other people who
have taken a creative license with some of the things I’ve said and
posted. It might have been me but I’ve never heard of the DNE.

RICHARD

((John,thank you for sharing,I find this fasinating.wanted to ask,
has California,had”the Big” earthquake,in your time and has any of the
north Coast disappeared?..also, I really do wish that you could be a
guest on Art’s show,I am sure it would be enjoyable…thanks
again…..Richard.))

The big one? As you are experiencing now, there are earthquakes,
storms and other unfortunate surprises from Mother Nature that have
impacts on your society and future history. That is one reason I won’t
go into detail. However, don’t worry too much about major portions of
coastline slipping under water.

I do enjoy Art’s show very much and I must admit I’ve been surprised
more than once by some of the things I’ve heard. I’ve seen reference to
other “time travelers” that Art has spoken with and I realize his
credibility (and ability to have an entertaining program) is at stake
when he talks to someone making such extreme claims. As you all know, I
think skepticism is good.

I enjoy talking to you too. Thanks for the enlightenment.

CRAIG on page 20:


Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-02-2001 07:51 PM

John, all kidding aside, an extremely important thing; do they ever get around to making any new Aeon Flux episodes?


Posted by Lynne Lynch on 03-02-2001 07:57 PM

Just a couple of questions for you,

1. Can you say if the Geon will be ever be revealed at all in the future?

2. What do Guinea Pigs eat in your time frame?


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-03-2001 12:07 PM

Smile

John,

I was thinking about what you wrote here in your previous thread:

“”…There is also a suggestion that time travel might make an
interesting punishment. However, I don’t think we have the right to
force criminals on unsuspecting worldlines and sending them to the
Stone Age might be a bit much. “”

Whoa! now there is a thought.

putting criminals back in time for punishment.

What if you put a repeat offender rapist back in the stoneage, or even further….before man.

And he started mating with everything he could find.

His first target would probably be the apes since there would be no other humans around.

He might even create a half-ape/half-man being.

Which might alter entire belief systems when they dug up the bones later. Leading people to believe we came from apes.

How’s that for creative thinking???? hahaha

What if he left footprints? or worse yet…a shoe print?

Putting angry criminals back in time is probably not a good idea. could you imagine the consequences??

hmmmm, I think I know what you mean now by no absolute truths when dealing with time travel….things could always change.

sincerely,

pamela


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-03-2001 03:12 PM

Okay, the US has social problems. Every country does, including
Russia. Its not a debate to be that War in any form can be avoided.
Let’s take the scenarios that John lays out. A Civil War needs a leader
first. How is this done? By groups hanging out in the invisible. Maybe.
The Congress and President drafts everyone it can, the military takes
over at first, marshall law can be declared. What happens, leaders take
over, and the President is still left free to perform other duties like
monitering Russia. Russia supposedly attacks. How limited is the
nuclear war. First it must be defined. Any kind of debate concludes
that you are assuming that some form of life exists when it is all
over. How many missiles is limited? 150 missiles. How many get through?
Einstein used a thought experiment, or imagined relativity. We shoot
most of the missiles down, so does Russia, China does not. Little wars
start all over the World. North and South Korea, India and Pakistan.
Use nuclear missiles. The US may bomb Iraq. Now how many missiles are
flying totally. Over 500 about. That may be just enough to end life on
this Planet. The oceans heat up, the water recedes from ultraviolet
radiation from the Sun. The Polar Caps start melting, the oceans go up.
The magnetic pole of the Earth shifts, it goes too far. The Earth
starts moving off it spin axis, resulting in more destruction.
Earthquakes now take place, the atmosphere depletes letting water vapor
out into space. The land starts going under the water level. Animals
turn on humans.

Elephants drop over, trample things. On and on, all because humans
could not imagine what the result would be of even a limited nuclear
war. Would humans survive this? I do not want to find out. There’s seem
to be an emotion about having a limited nuclear war, that humans would
survive, it still takes thought processes. Whatever they are feeling
for that emotion is nothing that I want to be around. I am not their
slave. The result, life ends even if it takes just a little longer.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-03-2001 09:35 PM

Pamela,

Banishing criminals to the past – an interesting thought.

I’m glad that there seems to be no evidence that that has happened. As
it happens, “criminals” are my business and have been so for the past
thirty-three years.

I’d have some very strong objections to sending them into the Stoneage
(or any other prior age for that matter). As it happens, there truly
isn’t a strong correlation between low intelligence and criminal
behavior. Criminals tend to be less educated but do possess at least
average intelligence. If we were to send them into the past we’d create
a timeline where “modern” ingenuity and “modern” man appear in (circa)
10,000 BC…thus no Stoneage. Even with a limited education the
banished would introduce the technical skills of their chosen trades
into that age (criminals really do have work skills – even skills that
qualify as “expert” by our standards.) It gets worse if you send them
into a “pre-human” era. By fiat you have re-defined “pre-human” to
exclude that period from being “pre-human.”

OT area:

I still see no practical applicability for time travel to our
experience. If it turns out that string or bubble theory is true then
time travel is possible – but the “place” traveled to has no connection
to our reality. And a successful return trip from another bubble or
string is tenuous at best. One would have no way of verifying that the
timeline to which they returned was the same timeline from which they
left. If it turns out that there is but one unified timeline, then any
meddling with the past (i.e. time traveling) ends causality on the
timeline from the instant of the Big Bang and renders the timeline
untenable – that is, it precludes the formation of our universe. (The
reason for positing that causality ends at the instant of the Big Bang
is the result of contamination. If time travel is possible in a
non-string/bubble reality then the time line has the entirity of
eternity for time travelers to contaminate the whole of the time line.
Causality fails at all instants on the time line and it collapses
before it forms. A macro-singularity of mass-energy & space-time,
as it were.)

Frankly, I’m probably no different than anyone else who logs onto
the Time Travel threads. Thinking about, fantasizing about and
pondering the significance of time travel is fascinating. This facet of
modern theoretical physics and philosophy is the cutting edge of
critical thought.

I suppose that time travel is so fascinating for me because everyone
who poses an opinion is potentially correct – without exclusion. If
time travel can be accomplished then it will be accomplished. Because
our timeline appears to be one where cause and effect are directly
related then it would appear that string-bubble reality is proved in
that context. Our four dimensional view of reality is one (of an
infinite array of possibilities) where cause precedes effect. That may
not be true of other timelines.


Posted by Bob Marz on 03-04-2001 06:51 AM

RE: Getting back to one’s own time

I assume as we get to the final touches of engineering time travel we
will devise a system to ensure a return trip. Analogous to bringing
along a ball of twine and letting it out, or, as Hansel and Gretal did,
drop breadcrumbs along the way to follow back, or, as spelunkers do
sometimes, tie down an anchor point and explore on the tether.

There will have to be a fixed starting point that the electronics
can follow back. Or some sort of electronic marker or “fix” will be
referenced before the trip starts. This means, of course, more
sophisticated computers than that old IBM box that John uses (or gear
that works in conjunction with it).


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-04-2001 02:54 PM

Thumbs up

Got a message back from Doc. John’s images are back up.

He said he did some study on the problem, and it seems that Geocities
is blocking links from other servers that attempt to access their
database.
He said he put tto’s images on his comteck server for right now until
he can find another one. The pics work on the forum now despite
interferance from geocities.

magisystemstimelordsanonymus

I knew Doc would find a way! hurray DOC!

sincerely,

pamela

[Edited by Mary Rowland on 03-05-2001 at 12:07 AM]


Posted by E. Robert Gonzalez on 03-04-2001 03:35 PM

Question

I have been a temporal researcher for at least two years now and
mostly studied radionic forms of time travel. I personally have not yet
used one of the devices but have heard stories and evidence leading me
to think they work. I was also wondering if you have heard of any of
the radionic and Steven Gibbs devices. I have had a possible encounter
with my future self that I can only characterize as being very strange.
He knew all my most personal thoughts and convinced me over a period of
about a year that he was me or atleast someone who knew me very well.
Apparently he came from an alternate time line like you, and his motive
seemed more like an informational one to me. It appears at some point
in time I might time travel although I’m not sure. What he told me
somewhat corresponds to what you say and that’s what scares me. I was
hoping maybe it was just a future in another universe much different
from ours and that my future would be some what peaceful and good to
live in. I now see a picture of a world that is war torn and hard to
live in. At first I was skeptical and then accepted you as being a true
time traveler with all the evidence and stories you put forth. I hope
to maybe send a comment to my future self and ask a couple of
questions. I would like to tell my future self this message: “Never
forget Echelon Group and the ones you love you most, keep strong and
don’t give up.” If his time line is anything like mine, he’ll know what
I mean. It’s just something to keep his spirits up. Now for some
questions, is it possible that I some how help any areas of time travel
or get noticed in the future (Maybe recognize my name)? Do most of the
people of that time die out, especially ones that currently have health
problems? Is it possible that sometime in your future or in your
present time that time travel will be common place? Have any of the
scientists of your time discovered any new planets, possibly ones with
life? Has the bandwidth of the internet increased greatly? And finally,
one last question…how did Texas fare during the war (If you can
answer)? Thanks for your time…I hope maybe I can e-mail you or maybe
I can e-mail you some how and talk for awhile.

[Edited by E. Robert Gonzalez on 03-04-2001 at 03:41 PM]


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 03-04-2001 03:44 PM

- – - “Craig on Page 20″ ….What comes after that??? LOL


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 02:02 AM

E. Robert Gonzalez,

I take it by your last name that your Spanish, am I right? I noticed
from your post that you believe John’s claims, that he’s actually a
bona-fined Time Traveler. You know, once I asked John a very similar
question to the one you just asked him. “Am I deeply involved in a Time
Travel project?” Knowing already the answer to that question, he
answered me by saying that he didn’t know me. And that if he did, he
wouldn’t tell me.

To everyone:

I just wanted to emphasis to the whole public viewing these posts that
John still has not made it clear what his secret agenda is. To allow
our minds to accept what he says to be true, we accept the very
immorality of his secret agenda, whatever it may be.

He is a Time Traveler, most of you people believe. Do most of you also
believe that he is sincere in everything he says? Yet you forget that
he said he would take people back with him.

I know that some of you wanted to volunteer. Yet John lied, and now
your faith in him is still strong, adjusting accordingly to keep his
ideals true. Why am I the only one bringing this up, questioning him?
Maybe because I don’t believe him, and because I won’t be disappointed
like some of you if I find out he isn’t a Time Traveler. Reminds me of
the Heaven’s Gate movement all over again.

That’s pathetic isn’t it? I know that some of you want to admit it;
you’re in the closet, thinking it over. Whether he truly is, or isn’t.
You still have that doubt that refuses to answer. You have a voice…
don’t be afraid of using it and taking leadership.

Somebody has to be on the opposing side, am I to believe that I am the only one?

John has many followers on his side; there is no doubt about that. But do you know what you are actually following?

He has put his younger self in danger of someday being found out and
exploited by our government. He has exploited the opportunity of using
the past to rowdy up events for some secret agenda he claims to have.
Saying he will video tape his departure, completely irresponsible of
its repercussions. Just to name a few.

The choice is ours people; our future is what we want it to be. Do
most of you want a future where Time Travel is a way of life? I know I
don’t, because how would you feel knowing that your life is not yours
to dictate, but mainly what the future wants it to be.

I wouldn’t dare think of exploiting the past, to benefit in some
event in the future. That goes against my ethics. Obviously, some of
you will have no problem with that, and ruin it for the rest of us.
Gee, thanks a lot.

Sincerely yours,

Javier C.


Posted by John Titor on 03-05-2001 06:06 AM

((He is a Time Traveler, most of you people believe. Do most of you
also believe that he is sincere in everything he says? Yet you forget
that he said he would take people back with him.))

Could you do me a favor and point out exactly where I made that
offer? I do recall a few people asking what it would be like but I
don’t believe I ever offered to take people back.

J.C., a few days ago on Art’s show, I heard Art make refrence to
someone named J.C. who was very persistant in calling the show when
ever the subject of time travel came up. If it’s you, I admire your
dedication.

Also, what happened to your “time cop” thread?


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-05-2001 07:18 AM

Gooten Tag – one and all.

I’ve just spent the worst weekend. Wish I could go back in time and correct it.

Albert: First I want to address some things you said, but not your entire message. I’ll try to keep my comments brief.

“Let’s take the scenarios that John lays out. A Civil War needs a
leader first. How is this done? By groups hanging out in the invisible.
Maybe.”

There are already very, very large militia groups that formed
around the time of the last elections. In fact, the NRA is being
considered a ‘militia group’ by some now. It grew by millions prior to
the elections – mainly due to direct attacks on the right to keep and
bear arms. Organizations such as the Militia of Montana have gained
hundreds of members in recent weeks. There are others, that are larger.
There are leaders, there are invisible groups that even I don’t know
about (and I keep track of who’s who in the militia arena – for
personal reason, nothing related to my job).

“The Congress and President drafts everyone it can, the military
takes over at first, marshall law can be declared. What happens,
leaders take over, and the President is still left free to perform
other duties like monitering Russia. Russia supposedly attacks. “

If and when Martial Law is declared – that will be the straw that
breaks the camel’s back. The current President KNOWS this, and CLinton
knew it too. I surmise from his last actions (the pardons for instance)
that he felt the timing wrong for declaring martial law and would have
if he thought he could have remained in office. Many of the groups I
mentioned before were braced for precisely that event. They are braced
for martial law. The biggest thing is that if martial law is declared,
some believe UN forces will be brought in to suplement US forces. Why?
Because foreigners do not have qualms about shooting americans. Keep
that in mind if things start looking like they are moving toward that
sort of thing.

John – can you… confirm from your point of view any of that? (Nothing specific there obviously).

“How limited is the nuclear war. First it must be defined. Any kind
of debate concludes that you are assuming that some form of life exists
when it is all over. How many missiles

is limited? 150 missiles. How many get through? Einstein used a thought experiment, or imagined relativity. We shoot

most of the missiles down, so does Russia, China does not. Little
wars start all over the World. North and South Korea, India and
Pakistan. Use nuclear missiles. The US may bomb Iraq. Now how many
missiles are flying totally. Over 500 about. That may be just enough to
end life on this Planet. The oceans heat up, the water recedes from
ultraviolet radiation from the Sun. The Polar Caps start melting, the
oceans go up. The magnetic pole of the Earth shifts, it goes too far.
The Earth starts moving off it spin axis, resulting in more
destruction. “

Obviously, all of this is supposition on both our parts. However, I
agree with you about the “smaller wars”. As far as how many get
through… right now, all of them. Life will exist when it is all over.
You know why? Because there have been many, many “Ice Ages” throughout
our geological history. There have been at least 5, (I believe 6) major
extinctions already in the history of our planet. Each time a major
extinction has occurred the dominate life forms were destroyed, and yet
life continued to survive, then thrive and finally a new, dominate life
form took over. Each obviously more intelligent than the last.

The last two involved dinosaurs and other higher lifeforms, and man
is the latest incarnation of dominate lifeform on this planet. Man is
capable of total destruction of this world if man does so.

“There’s seem to be an emotion about having a limited nuclear war,
that humans would survive, it still takes thought processes. Whatever
they are feeling for that emotion is nothing that I want to be around.
I am not their slave. The result, life ends even if it takes just a
little

longer.”

Emotion is the main ingredient in any war, regardless of whether or
not it is nuclear or conventional. People get mad, they fight, they
argue and eventually they go to war as a
group/country/nation/race/religion/etc. The thought processes change
radically from “let’s get along” to “those BASTARDS” to “let’s kill
them all” and then back to a very organized thought process of how best
to kill the enemy.

But, the part that precipitates a war takes very little effort or
thought on the part of the antagonists. They simply let their emotions
take over. When it gets too far, war starts and after the beginning of
the war – the thoughts turn to killing, not how to get out of the war.

Nuclear weapons are the ultimate device with which to put a stop to
a war. As such they won’t be used until they are deemed absolutely
necessary. But, once a war begins, the possibility exists, and as low
as the probabilities might seem, they are always much higher than any
of us believe.

As we can see from this forum alone, the human mind grabs hold of
ideas that are on the fringe and believes them. But thoughts that are
scary, deadly and even point to the real truth about humanity (how bad
and evil people can be if they want) we try to deny those
possibilities. We do not wish to believe that the human race is capable
of some of the evil that we’ve seen in the past.

So – we try to deny it. My point throughout this forum, to everyone
including you and Javier is that even if you do not BELIEVE in
something, do not believe it can happen, you STILL MUST keep your mind
open to the possibilities because then you are forewarned. Forewarned
is forearmed.

Rick


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 08:38 AM

John,

That didn’t stop you from having people believe it. You could have
come forward and made a public announcement to get it straight with
people the first time. And now finally you say you never said it. What
not say that the first time I brought it up too?

My guess, is that I out-witted you, and now you finally found a come back .

Your guess is as good as mine on the thread. I have no idea where it
went to. Perhaps it’s the J.C. that’s calling Art’s show. Maybe it’s a
future me, who took it down to minimize speculation.

Knowing how I am, I know that I will not rest until I bring Time
Travel Violators to justice. So maybe there is a high chance that it
could be me. Why, scared John? You sounded nervous to me.

-J.C.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-05-2001 09:20 AM

I leave the Mr. Time Traveler, and all, a parting gift. The meaning
of life is explicit, the questions are not. Whether John’s future is
true or not, whether any possibility exists, whether foreigner will
kill citizens of the US. The answers were always there, written by
other people long ago thinking about life.

Written by Thomas Jefferson, June 1776, :

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one
people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with
another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and
equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature’s God entitle
them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they
should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of
happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted
among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends,
it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to
institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and
organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely
to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate
that governments long established should not be changed for light and
transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that
mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than
to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are
accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing
invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under
absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off
such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. —
Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now
the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of
government.

The thinking has all been done, still the questions will always be
asked. What is the meaning of life? There a glimpse of it from Thomas
Jefferson.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-05-2001 09:39 AM

“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing
invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under
absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off
such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. —
Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now
the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of
government. “

My point was, and still is that because of this document, because
our government is self-governing, because the people control the
outcome and not some entity called “government” there is and always
will be, as long as the Constitution exists in its present form… the
possibilities that those “in power” will make mistakes, either
accidently or purposefully, and those accidents will lead to nodes in
time.

This “node in time” is what I call the various crossroads where, if
a certain incident had not occured then other, larger events would not
have occurred.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 10:21 AM

Very nicely put Albert. I agree with Thomas Jefferson. We must do
something. The way things are going, lots of people are just letting
the government do things to us. No body takes enough of a stand anymore
in matters of the government taking away our rights, our freedom. Look
at the picture our resident Time Travel painted for us. We can’t do
jack in his Time Line. And to make matters worse, Time Travel is a way
of life to their government and people, and for what hidden agenda?

I’ll bet you’ll have some very interesting stories to tell your government about us when you go back John .
What will your report entitle? That you weren’t prepared for the year
2001, and that you had information about your time device leak out?
It’s true; you stated you weren’t ready for the year 2001, who knows
what things you could have done different had you been ready.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-05-2001 11:23 AM

And in conclusion, Thomas Jefferson wrote:

In every stage of these oppressions we have petitioned for redress
in the most humble terms: our repeated petitions have been answered
only by repeated injury. A prince, whose character is thus marked by
every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free
people.

Nor have we been wanting in attention to our British brethren. We
have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to
extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of
the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have
appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured
them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations,
which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence.
We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our
separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in
war, in peace friends.

The US is backed by NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

I think its safe to assume that the people who bought and paid for
these weapons of mass destruction may well know what to do with the
Devil as soon as I get there, or him, or her.

No, these weapons do not make the World safe, but I do know where
I might be going, afterall: “How can God allow a person into Heaven
even if that person is praying for forgiveness while still socking it
to that place when whoever shows up down there, well maybe?

Is a further question maybe, are humans ever at Peace?


Posted by John Titor on 03-05-2001 11:32 AM

CRAIG:

((What music do 20 year olds listen to.))

People listen to all types of music. A great deal of it is
available over the web. I would also add that people spend much more
time making their own music.

((What’s the future of cloning.))

Cloning full people has been determined to be medically and
ethically unsound. We do have research and progress in cloning body
parts and creating more viable sperm and egg production.

((Any more on Bill Gates? ))

Not really. Just curious, why is he of such interest?

((Do people wear chips yet?))

No. People value their personal independence and ability to take care of themselves.

((Are you a marked man?))

Not that I’m aware of.

LOLA:

((I would still like to know what population makes a city big.))

Cities become targets because of their military and economic value.
Any large area supported by a civil infrastructure is likely to be on
that list.

((Your time sounds grim. Are you tempted to deliver your computer to 2036 and then retire in the 1970′s? ))

Not at all. I’m anxious to get home.

((What did you think about those commercials?))

I think those commercials capitalize on other people’s misery and
misfortune in an attempt to sell a product. I can understand coming up
with an idea like but what confuses me is how does it get past that
stage? How do people sit in a room around a large conference table and
agree that leaving a critically injured person lying in the snow is
funny and will sell cell phones?

Page 21


Posted by Chester Ward on 03-05-2001 12:15 PM

I’m new to the forum as of today and having just read the older
discussions, I can tell you when you “invited” people to time-hop with
you. Although your post of February 9th wasn’t truly an invitation to
join you when you travel back, I can see how it could have been taken
by some as being such.

I’d love to go back to the funkier times of the ’70s; every day I
feel more out of step with today’s world. If there’s room for me and
you are amenable to it, could you really drop me off in 1975? If so
please reply. Thank you.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 12:24 PM

Smile

Ahh haa. Busted John.

See you did lie, and you kept it going. So your just as guilty whether
or not you implied it directly or not. The point is, people believed
you, and you did nothing to stop that.

Way to go John, still waiting for that public apology.


Posted by John Titor on 03-05-2001 12:52 PM

((Although your post of February 9th wasn’t truly an invitation to
join you when you travel back, I can see how it could have been taken
by some as being such.))

I’m sure many things by many people are taken in many ways. I find
this an interesting point because I think its important to have implied
agreements on words and meanings before you can talk with another
person. If it wasn’t an invitation (by your own acknowledgement), am I
responsible for what people think? If I am, how would you propose that
I double check that? Are there really that many people out there upset
about this?

((Way to go John, still waiting for that public apology.))

I publicly apologize for confusing you J.C. and anyone else who is
packing their old bell-bottoms and shalls for a trip back to 1975.

Just curious J.C. Can you think of anything I could do to prove to you that I’m not a time traveler?


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 01:06 PM

Smile

((Just curious J.C. Can you think of anything I could do to prove to you that I’m not a time traveler? ))

I’m confused… what do you mean? I don’t think you are. Just wanted you to get your own story stright that’s all.

It’s not my fault I found some discrepancies. You didn’t get upset
with Pamela when she did too. All I did was pointed them out to you.
Just how she did. Right?

Hypocrisy, I tell you.

-J.C.

P.S. Now don’t you feel better now after you apologize? It wasn’t so
hard after all, I don’t see why you waited so long to do so ?

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 at 01:29 PM]


Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-05-2001 01:14 PM

John;

Since Heaven’s Gate was mentioned, I would like to say those involved
in Heaven’s Gate were seeking a meaning for their lives. They wanted
the easy way out, to hand thinking over to someone else, and follow
with the implication they were now endowed with that meaning. I think
they must’ve had a feeling of lack of meaning in the first place. Maybe
people wish to believe in a time traveler in order to feel the same
way. That they have meaning to their lives, proved by the fact that
they are under the surveilance of someone ‘important’.

Perhaps you are a time traveler, perhaps you are Whitley Streiber under
a pen name, who knows? Thomas Jefferson wrote with thoughts that
mattered not if he ever transcended his own time bodily, his mind did
it for him. The beauty of his soul came from his ability to think in
relation to his fellow human beings with empathy for their plight. If
time travel is possible, someone please give him a bus ticket, because
we need him in every time available.

[Edited by Barbara Clements on 03-05-2001 at 01:44 PM]


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-05-2001 01:21 PM

Now that we have the “What If Scenarios”.

If it happens, it happens.

Similiar to questions asked here, another forum discussed some
possibilities in the form a a Forum Story Googolplex. That was at http://www.sidgames.com/forums
in the topic class: Off-Topic. The story came down to the question “Can
humans with run-on sentences increase the total mass of the Universe,
at which point, it buldges at it seams, and we cause a split, or a
duality, of the Universe with all of this Information Age, or that the
Universe is destroyed, (blows up) from the increase in mass due to
run-on sentences?”

If it happens, well, I guess, it happened.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 01:22 PM

Thumbs up

Barbara,

That was beautifully put . I hope though, that your post actually reach some people.


Posted by Lola Montez on 03-05-2001 01:47 PM

Barbara,

Thomas Jefferson owned 2,000 slaves.

Lola


Posted by Chester Ward on 03-05-2001 01:48 PM

…about returning to ’75.

I’m not in any way trying to jump on the “let’s trip John up”
bandwagon here. I’m sorry if that’s how you took it. You asked if
someone would point out the “invitation” and, as the post was fresh in
my mind, I did, and also clarified it as “not exactly an invitation”. I
asked if you’d consider taking a hitch-hiker, as I’ve no reason to
doubt you’re being who you say you are, I absolutely believe time
travel happens and have, for the past decade, dreamed of going back to
simpler times. Since you’re stopping there anyway….


Posted by Randy Empey on 03-05-2001 02:15 PM

Javier —

Actually, I have a question (which is along very simmular lines as
what I think John is getting at) that I want to see you answer: Can you
prove or disprove anything? And if your answer to that is ‘Yes.’ then
I’d also like to have you prove it.

[Edited by Randy Empey on 03-05-2001 at 02:24 PM]


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-05-2001 02:28 PM

Here is a link to Russia, http://allnews.ru , did I just prove it?


Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-05-2001 02:32 PM

Lola, those were the times.


Posted by E. Robert Gonzalez on 03-05-2001 02:45 PM

I probably worded it wrong when I talked about believing John. I am
now leaning towards the possibility that he is a time traveler for alot
of personal reasons as well. I hope I can get my questions answered by
John and further understand your apparently grim future. Apparently the
more visible mission of my “future-self” was to save my future and that
of my family’s. I am very worried about the future and would do my best
to protect the ones I love. If I can atleast be prepared for it, then
maybe I’ll fare well.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 02:50 PM

Randy,

Prove what? All I did was point out John’s discrepancies. I think it’s
proof enough, if you can see what he’s said in past post, and what he
says now. It doesn’t match up.


Posted by John Titor on 03-05-2001 05:49 PM

ANGEL:

((Can you tell us if reverse speech is used in the future for business or even pleasure?))

I’m not very familiar with reverse speech but what I saw on the web
leads me to conclude it’s a bit objective. I’m not sure if its been
proven scientifically to be very accurate. Are you aware of any
research that shows that?

((Also, can you talk about earthquakes in California or Nevada?))

No I can’t. Besides, I see others predicting earthquakes and very few people pay any attention to them.

((Thanks, John, for starting this topic and sharing your time with us. We are really enjoying it and you!))

I appreciate that a great deal. Your future will be fine.

RANDY:

((Warping time and space takes lots of energy))

Yes it does. A nuclear aircraft carrier and a space shuttle main engine also take a great deal of energy.

((. .. making finding out if or how TT works hard . . . is this
because of some accidental way the universe turned out, or is it a
fundamental law written in by the Creator?))

Hawking believes it’s possible to build a time machine but a
mysterious energy will destroy it if anyone tries to use it. In my
opinion, manipulating gravity is not the hard part of time travel.
Also, with great power comes great responsibility. If man has a
limitation, that’s it.

JAMES:

((John Titor,what if something happens to your device to get
back,let us say inoperable,would you then change the world by
announcing warnings,and also what if you got a flat tire inbetwwen
times would you have to pull over to fix it in a wrong time?))

No, I wouldn’t do anything different if my machine broke. I would
still be a stranger and a guest here. My opinions and “announcements”
would also be the same as anyone else’s. I may however offer advice to
my younger self.

LOLA:

((I still have some questions you have not responded to but hate to
ask again in the event you do not wish to respond or just have not made
your way to them yet. Could you let me know which? I will wait to hit
you with more until I know the status.))

If I missed something feel free to bring it up again.

BRAD

(( Why aren’t you traveling and telling us about your latest trip to the pyramids…))

Yes, that would be fascinating but the unit I have is unable to go back that far accurately.

((instead of talking about specifics you should be bored from in your awareness to them?))

Not at all, I find the subject fascinating. There are two real
issues I hope people think about when I’m gone. One, how will you react
when another time traveler shows up and two, how are we going to handle
the responsibility of time travel when its invented.

((Are the Great Pryamids still standing in 2036?))

Yes, although one of them was severely damaged.

((If you wish to experience society as it was, admitting yourself to be a time traverler is counter-productive.))

Yes, if I was here for that purpose and if you believed me I suppose that would be an issue.

((How’s communication around the world in 2036. Do you still have literature widely available?))

Yes, books and other literature are available but most of the distribution is via the net.

((What’s the latest book you’ve read that you were only able to hear about in your own time?))

The latest book I read was the autobiography of the Red Baron
compiled from letters to his mother. Yes, I was aware of it in my own
time but finding an original copy there was almost impossible.

((Is new literature also so available?))

Yes.

((Is the english language begining to segment into sects and
accents with less influence from trourists? Or is tourism still strong
and thriving in 2036.))

I would say the English language is pretty much the same as it is
now. There are differences in slang and figures of speech but it’s
nothing you couldn’t pick up. Yes, I suppose we do have “tourism”.

CRAIG:

Thanks again for the book reference.

JAMES:

((can you tell me what year the police will stop busting people for smoking weed???))

It happens about the same time they stop coming to your house when you dial 911.

((do they start pushing for legalization earlier than the war????))

It’s not really an issue of the government letting you do
something, It’s more like they have other things to worry about. Don’t
you feel you’re capable of taking care of yourself? If you want to take
mood-altering drugs, why should my opinions stop you from that? They
don’t stop you from taking alcohol, tobacco or fast food.

In any case, it also lets Darwin take over. One of the reasons drug
abuse isn’t a major problem in 2036 is because no one wants to die from
it and everyone else who did is dead.

RICK 22


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-05-2001 06:25 PM

Talking

John,

Hypothetically speaking, what will make your trip to the future impossible? And if you do go back, what here can change it?

Even superman has weakness, and I am sure there is something or someone (hehe ) in this world that can change your future.

Some Yang will always exist to oppose some Ying.


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-05-2001 07:43 PM

Javier,

You make the statement that you do not believe John is really a time traveler…..what is all of this then????

(all from this thread..”Iam from 2036″)

page 21:

“That above example not just shows how irresponsible you are, but
how ignorant as a Time Traveler you are as well: “I just don’t know. I
was not prepared for the year 2001.” Good choice, 2036″

page 22:

..”and your future culture finds no flaw with prolonging it.
Instead, they gave one of their Time Traveler (meaning you) a device to
come to the past and exploit the chance to take and do as you and they
see fit.
Time Travel is an evil means to get what you want; I wouldn’t be surprised if your world is Satanic. “

page 24:

“Hence my hatred towards Time Travel, and Time Travelers. “

“Someone’s got to do something. Who here has the guts to stand up for justice in the matter of temporal violators?”

“And as for me being jealous of John, that’s not likely. Why would I be jealous of a Time Traveler? I hate Time Travelers”

page 25:

“I have to say John is very clever. But personally I don’t like Time
Travelers, so I can’t be like you or the rest and listen to him. “

page 26:

“Look at the picture our resident Time Travel painted for us. We
can’t do jack in his Time Line. And to make matters worse, Time Travel
is a way of life to their government and people, and for what hidden
agenda?”

“I’ll bet you’ll have some very interesting stories to tell your
government about us when you go back John . What will your report
entitle? That you weren’t prepared for the year 2001, and that you had
information about your time device leak out? It’s true; you stated you
weren’t ready for the year 2001, who knows what things you could have
done different had you been ready”

“knowing how I am, I know that I will not rest until I bring time
Travel Violators to justice. So maybe there is a high chance that it
could be me. Why, scared John? You sounded nervous to me.”

“He has put his younger self in danger of someday being found out
and exploited by our government. He has exploited the opportunity of
using the past to rowdy up events for some secret agenda he claims to
have. Saying he will video tape his departure, completely irresponsible
of its repercussions. Just to name a few.

The choice is ours people; our future is what we want it to be. Do most
of you want a future where Time Travel is a way of life? I know I
don’t, because how would you feel knowing that your life is not yours
to dictate, but mainly what the future wants it to be. “

Javier,

With all things considered, Is it not possible that people could misunderstand you as well?

for anyone listening to these statements might just come to the conclusion that you may be the biggest believer of all.

John said: ((Just curious J.C. Can you think of anything I could do to prove to you that I’m not a time traveler? ))

sincerely,

pamela

“Prove what? All I did was point out John’s discrepancies. I think
it’s proof enough, if you can see what he’s said in past post, and what
he says now. It doesn’t match up. “

[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-05-2001 at 08:34 PM]


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 03-05-2001 08:09 PM

Barbara those were nice thoughts though isn’t it a bit presumptuous
to imagine you know how the Heaven’s Gate people felt? It is my
understanding that the majority of them had lived together for some 20
years and had spent a lot of time directly confronting the difficult
issues of their own and each other’s lives, in an exciting, supportive
and sometimes uncomfortably confrontive way. People who wanted to leave
were given $1000 to help get back into the swing of normal life. Most
testimonials talked about how deep their experience of life had been on
their path. People here in San Diego who had contact with them spoke of
what a joy it was to just be around them.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-05-2001 11:04 PM

A future Russian leader starts a conversation answered by the American leader in the future:

Dah!

Duh!

Dah, Dah, Dah, dah, dah, Dah!

Duh! Duh!, Duh!, duh, duh, duh, duh, Duh!

Dah! Dah!

Duh, duh, duh, duh duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh

Dah! dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah,dah dah

Duh! duh, duh, duh,duh,duh,duh,duh Duh!

Dah!

Duh!


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-06-2001 03:43 AM

Well, I been reading more, now I’ll lose some sleep.

It seems that the Civil War part, is what I question.

If I went by what you say John, then, if I’m not too tired,

then it would be the Police that start acting weird?

Well, a lot of people seem to be bent towards hate these days. Want to hand out orders, be in control.

But still I just find that the Police are trying to do their job.

Now the lastest is thermal imaging of houses where drugs may be grown.
Is that a real loss of a freedom, or should they have the right to
(spy) on people with high-tech devices?

A laser that shines on a window can record the conversation going on in the house.

Since I mainly listen to talk radio, this is where I get my info,
from a talk-show host that seems to have a nack for finding out things
going on in this time.

I guess this is the question that we now have to answer, high-tech equipment helping out law-enforcement?

I still think if people are not doing anything wrong, then these
problems can be solved peacefully, not at the expense of human-life?

Others may conclude that it means a loss of rights.

Many people would not like to admit their madness in this day and
age. I find that usually fighting for things that may not change to be
the biggest problem with people, they want to instantly fight over all
things. It’s this pettyness that drives people now. Road rage, not
allowing for other people to think, others not being concerned with
what they are doing, causing problems, but a deep un-relaxed feeling
that everyone is against them.

Are we blooming flowers or dying wilting flowers?

A lot of people scare themselves into thinking doom.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-06-2001 07:36 AM

Pamela,

You out of all people, should know that I speak hypothetically. Or
if anyone claims to be something, I make it sound if he were, what
would he do if he were. Haven’t you noticed? Everytime I question him,
it’s to make it seem that if he were a Time Traveler, why is he messing
up so much? I don’t believe he is though, you took what I said and
attacked me without knowing all the facts. And you know me better then
these people, so that makes it even more difficult to understand why
you would be so much against me.

He didn’t get mad at you when you brought forward his mistakes, but
when I bring out his mistakes he gets mad at me, and you support him
everytime. That’s just not fair.

How many times must I tell you that it’s the principal that drives me.
If he is, or isn’t a Time Traveler, he claims he is. I don’t believe
him though. You do though, and so do alot of other people here.

Excuse me for being on the opposite side of things, but it needs to be known.

Have a nice day,

Javier C.


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-06-2001 08:43 AM

Javier,

I am trying to make you aware of something. I am trying to point something out to you.

“You out of all people, should know that I speak HYPOTHETICALLY Or if
anyone claims to be something, I make it sound if he were, what would
he do if he were.”

How was one to know this? wasnt this what John claimed he was
doing? If he was actually going to take people back with him this is
how he would do it? you called him a liar…would this make you one as
well? Should I ask for your apology to the group?

“you took what I said and attacked me without knowing all the facts.”

I have only done with your words what you have done with John’s. If
you consider this an attack…you might want to consider what you are
doing to John.

“He didn’t get mad at you when you brought forward his mistakes, but when I bring out his mistakes he gets mad at me”

I don’t think John is mad at you. He has never spoken even one bad word against you to me. I can testify to that.

“I don’t believe him though. You do though, and so do alot of other people here.”

you are assuming this but have no idea what people believe on this
forum unless they have stated it openly. even then….people can change
their minds.

You, yourself have no proof whatsoever that John is or isnt a time
traveler. people have the right to beleive or not believe whatever they
want to. Most people just want to hear what John has to say. let them
make up their own minds.

I am not against you, Javier. I am just trying to make you aware of
some things. what you are doing to others, you do not like yourself.
And talking about not being fair…I don’t think you are being very
fair to John.

sincerely,

pamela


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-06-2001 09:44 AM

Pamela,

Well talk about streching the truth. John was direct in claims of
being a Time Traveler, everyone knew I was intentive in exposing him.
If that method is to give the example of “What if you were a Time
Traveler” “what would you do if” and so on, does not mean I believe he
is, if it gave you and him the impression that I believed him. I think
that’s where you misunderstood me and all this started.

I can do very well without bringing up what you said, I know what you
mean. People can make up their own minds. But you must let them choose.
Not just let them have 1 side of a subject to choose.

Me being quiet, will just leave 1 side. Your side. And that is what
I have been trying to make you be aware of for almost a year now.

Moreover, did you think I cared what John has said to you about me. NO! Have I ever asked you, NO! What makes you think I care?

Just because I said it wasn’t fair, does not mean I want others to
feel sorry for me because you think you turned it around on me. I just
said that to point out how hypocritical some people can be.

-J.C.


Posted by James N. Dickey on 03-06-2001 11:17 AM

Wink

Let’s just say for now Ok. I take it the big corporate giants are
still around(GE, GM, GF and the like) is the World of 2036 still Money
Driven or has that changed. Does it still Squelch the little Guy with a
better Mouse Trap(Free Energie) or more Produtive means of producing
Power(Like H2O2 Receprecating Rocket Engine) or the Burk 2-Stroke which
was demonstrated in the 60′s and was able to run an 18-whlr with only
60cc engine size. Did the Perpetual Thermal Steam Disk ever take off in
mass Use. or did it preaty much stay the same as it has been(Exploite
the Non Renuable Resorcess) and their By Products. Just a few Thaughts
for Now. James


Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-06-2001 11:37 AM

Cool

John and all, I have been reading with fascination this thread for a
few weeks now. Are you a Time Traveler, John? I do not know. You make
an interesting and compelling case, regardless of whether I or anyone
else believes that you are.

The whole concept of time travel — with its myriad possibilities
due to an action occurring in one brief moment — is mind-boggling. To
imagine for a moment that a single event sets off unforeseen
consequences, and knowing that this happens in infinite numbers at all
times, can be quite humbling.

Take, if you will, a chain of events which happened to me within
the past day. While proceeding to get my two year old a cup of milk
last evening, I somehow managed to lose the cap off of the milk carton.
My wife then poured the milk into a pitcher and placed it back inside
the refrigerator. This morning my two year old went to help himself to
another cup of milk, and you guessed it, he dropped the pitcher
spilling the contents all over our kitchen floor. This made me 10
minutes later beginning my commute to work, and possibly saved my life
as I was not involved in a car accident that occurred where I normally
would have been had I left at my normal time.

I only mention the above because it seems that even the fact of my
encountering this thread on this website seems to all be interconnected
somehow.

This brings me to another point. I have been very moved by some of
John’s accounts, as well as others, in relation to the projected
upcoming strife and war. I said I have a two year old boy, which means
he is the approximate same age as John. If these prognostications are
true, then I certainly do not like what is foreboded for my children.

I, personally, am not surprised at this picture because I have
foretold this scenario myself, not by implementing any time traveling
means, but through observation and analysis. A person only needs to
look at the recent presidential election to see that a war is a
distinct possiblitiy involving rural America versus the cities. Look at
how the electoral college played out. Al Gore carried the heavily
populated east and west coasts, with the rural areas between basically
favoring George W. Bush. The mainstream media tried to portray this as
proving how close to the “center” the electorate is. I, however, hold
an opposing viewpoint in that I believe it shows just how polarized we
have become. The rural areas want more of a traditional America with
traditional family values. I predicted an imminent violent uprising
even before the election, and I still hold to this belief. I hope I am
wrong.

Do I own a gun? No, but I certainly support the Second Amendment and a person’s right to do so.

Take care all of you, and God bless America!


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-06-2001 12:30 PM

All very interesting David up previous. I really do not see rural
America really interested in starting an uprising. What is bothering
people to me, is constant lay-offs and the changing of life in the
Information Age. Some refuse to need this new kind of thinking, ushered
in by people using computer more. This grand thing called the computer
to make life easier has also had its drawbacks. I wish that America
would look into a Think Tank type of operation for thinking about
issues and quality first, but then I guess that would not be America
anymore. People I guess, feel that they are shoved around, but that is
nothing different than previous management from the past. The social
problems are a relatively few individuals, whom other people hear more
about on the news.

I suggest everyone listen to talk-radio more, only a few shows on TV are worth watching.

As one person put it, greed is driving America, and some feel at
the loss of interaction between people. People have their opinions, but
like arse-holes, everyone got one, and for the most part, opinions are
just a form of belief system held by the individual. People see panic
where there may be none.

I put it this way, upper management looks at America and the way
individuals are acting and says “I put the operation overseas”, well,
at least to me.

Its all concerned with how much of the moola people can have. That
may not lead to anything. Combined with taxes and people talk about
change.

The best way is still the old way, write your Congress People and keep at it. Most people complain but that is ordinary too.

Life could be a lot harder, we have become slack for saying lack of
money to spend on anything. People have no fear, if they do something
wrong, they will not suffer the punishment that is needed to correct
the situation.

I got the opinion that baby-boomers were treated too good, for
some of them, and afterall, I am a baby-bummer, like some of the rest.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-06-2001 02:40 PM

Not much was mentioned about the Middle East (Arab Countries). What happens there? Wiped mostly out like Europe? (WWIII)


Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-06-2001 09:12 PM

Craig;

So it doesn’t matter that the Pied Piper is leading you off the cliff?
Only that you have a smile on your face as you go down. Well then, all
I have to say to you is have a nice trip.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-07-2001 12:04 AM

We live in this world. Not to misuse anyone or site or thing:

Here’s a few, I use to have more, now who’s looking?

England, and BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/

Ireland and the Internet: http://www.nua.ie/ wrote the book about the upcoming digital age for the US. Government.

Antarctica through Australia: http://www.antdiv.gov.au/

Australia: http://www.newaus.com.au/

Russia: http://allnews.ru

Italy: http://www.publinet.it/

Switzerland: http://www.pubblinet.it/

The Constitution: http://www.constitution.org/

Congress but through another website:

http://www.freerepublic.com/congress.htm

Now China can also be reached, 16 million on Internet, HongKong, Japan.

The world got small, so when we assume that America with Canada with Brazil are the only ones on the Internet,

I always wonder who looking at what on the Internet.

Well, that my speech, that all you’ll hear. Who may care anyway?


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-07-2001 09:07 AM

Albert Cattoir: “All very interesting David up previous. I really do
not see rural America really interested in starting an uprising. What
is bothering people to me, is constant lay-offs and the changing of
life in the Information Age. “

If you can’t see this (rural America, for one) then you are not looking. It is as plain as your image in the mirror.

“People I guess, feel that they are shoved around, but that is
nothing different than previous management from the past. The social
problems are a relatively few individuals, whom other people hear more
about on the news. “

People are being shoved around. I have been having some serious
family problems this past week. I won’t go into details, but, let us
say that someone can make an accusation against another in todays
society and the person being accused is arrested, held for up to 72
hours without seeing a judge (thereby missing work, school, perhaps
getting fired or failing classes) all because someone made a FALSE
ACCUSATION! This actually happened so dont come back telling me it
DOESN’T happen. The social problems we see on the news are indeed the
most news-worthy, at least in the sense of the media. However, a LOT of
people are having problems in society, from taxes to government
intervention where there should be neither.

People, in short, in America are FED UP with government
intervention. They are fed up with people attacking their rights
because of a few bad apples.

Your suggestion of talk radio is right on the mark. Folks really
should be listening to alternative news sources. They are accurate,
truthful and most importantly, cover things and facts that the
main-stream media does not cover.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-07-2001 09:47 AM

Rick,

It’s refreshing to hear someone besides me taking a passionate stand on something. Keep it up buddy .


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-07-2001 09:48 AM

Yes, that has happened to me also.

Sense of humor?

Well, would you look at that? What is that suppose to be?

An ET. No, just a crazy human running around with his arms wavering over his head. Oh!


Posted by Dan Richardson on 03-07-2001 10:03 AM

Before I pose my questions to John, I would like to take this
opportunity to point out to all participants in this thread that
regardless of whether one believes in the validity of John’s claims, it
is wonderful to see people engaging in a discussion that pushes
participants to present their opinions and questions based on ones
individual experiences, philosophies, and knowledge. What worries me
most about our future is that we, as a civilization, seem to be more
interested in being spoon-fed our opinions on any given issue because
it is much easier to take another’s word for it, rather than ask
questions and come to our own conclussion. I apologize if I am rambling
on, but I felt it necessary to point out that if we don’t ask ourselves
and each other the hard questions and participate in discussions, we
will always have to take someone else’s word it.

Now, my question for John:

How does time travel affect our future(no pun intended) exploration of the universe?

It seems that the geatest obstacles in our way right now are a
matter of energy (propulsion technology) and economic feasibility. It
seems to me that time travel technology could neatly takes care of both.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-07-2001 10:31 AM

Hope things work out, Rick.

Maybe its a rememberance as a child, but the closet I ever came to
having a distinct feeling of helplessness, and maybe hopelessness, was
during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Now, Pres. Kennedy was not going to allow Russia to move missiles
into Cuba, at any time by any means. When broadcast on TV, his speech
was so that many may have thought that the end of the World just might
occur.

Back then, no one even thought of the possibility of what a War meant, just that it may happen.

Hopefully everything works out, and the future does not have this really occuring.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-07-2001 11:18 AM

I still like the topic time travel, well at least in this minute.

Last dreadful reply.

1) It occurs sooner now, it occurs later, it does not occur at all. I am telling you the future.

2) Missiles come in from some other country. Hit cities.

How many cities hit around Washington D.C. Does the President or
anyone in Congress, or any leader escape in Air Force One? Only 12 or
so minutes before dead. Out to Andrews Air Force base, very fast in
helicopter, 5 minutes, ususally takes 10 minutes. Jet lifts off, climbs
up, oops, caught in blast. All leaders dead. No, maybe a Senator is
alive. Goood! Go fine Senator, leader at moment. Why? What are the
nuclear silo people doing? Will the country launch another attack? Are
their nuclear silo people still alive?

Both are, stay down there for months. No contact with any
civilization. Who got authority to tell them not to launch another
attack? I do not know. Waving arms at all nuclear silo bunkers, with
radiation suit on. Please do not launch another attack. Humans stll
exist. I do not know if through their camera, they can even see me. Who
got authority? Did that person communicate with these trained
personnel? How?

All communication may be down. How do we contact these trained
personnel with orders that may include, “Launch all missiles if no sign
of life after a certain period of time?

My scenario, all life ends, some life may exist?, it never happens.


Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-07-2001 11:44 AM

Talking

Rick:

I, too, wish and hope that things work out for you. I have also
seen too many times when just the false accusation has ruined peoples’
lives.

People in this country are tired of the Constitution being trampled
upon by those in power, and it does seem to be that those in the
predominantly rural areas of the country are the most upset about the
continued erosion of personal freedom by an increasingly intrusive
federal government. John’s description of the future in the relative
short term does appear highly plausible.

John:

My oldest son wanted me to ask if you have any siblings. I
apologize in advance if you have already answered this previously, but
I do not recall you mentioning anyone other than yourself and your
parents in your prior messages.

Also, are you still planning on broadcasting your departure via a broadcast over the Internet? That would be quite interesting.

Is there still an NCAA basketball tournament in 2036, and if so, has it expanded from its current 64 team format?

Please answer at your earliest convenience.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-07-2001 04:48 PM

John,

Hello, again.

I’ve been pondering you and the philosophy that you’ve printed here and it occurred to me:

John Titor – anagram “I John Trot”

Is this possible? In 18th Century pantomime Clown was also known as
John Trot,Clodpole and Clodpate. This character often played opposite
Harlequin and Columbine. In the Frederic Bastiat economic sophism “The
Tax Collector” Clodpate played the tax collector who was extracting tax
from vintner James Goodfellow. James asks of Clodpate how he will
benefit from paying an extortionate tax:

James: And what benefit do I derive from it today?

Clodpate: The satisfaction of saying:

How proud I am to be a Frenchman

When I behold the triumphal column!

James: And the humiliation of leaving to my heirs an estate
burdened with a rent that they will have to pay for all time to come.
Still, one really must pay one’s debts, however foolishly the money may
have been spent.

Is it true? Is your nom de plum an anagram telling us that you are Clown poking fun at both the government and us?


Posted by John Titor on 03-07-2001 06:24 PM

((Is this possible? In 18th Century pantomime Clown was also known
as John Trot,Clodpole and Clodpate. This character often played
opposite Harlequin and Columbine. In the Frederic Bastiat economic
sophism “The Tax Collector” Clodpate played the tax collector who was
extracting tax from vintner James Goodfellow. James asks of Clodpate
how he will benefit from paying an extortionate tax))

Unfortunately, I’m not that well read. But it does look like an
interesting story and I will be sure to pick it up if it sparks a
connection between it and me. Madam I’m Adam…that’s the only one I
know.

Questions coming…


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-07-2001 07:12 PM

((Unfortunately, I’m not that well read.))

Nah fa real? Your to modest .


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-07-2001 10:14 PM

John,

I know…it was stretch. But your political humor would be appreciated by Clodpate in any case.

And: dios mio, Javier. Calmete. Whether John is real or not, he
hasn’t asked me for any money, hasn’t tried to sell me anything and
isn’t “pumping & dumping” penny stocks. I happen to like the John
Trot anagram because John Trot is humorous as is John Titor.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-07-2001 10:36 PM

Hey Darby, tu habals Español too? I’m more of Spanglish then Spanish
and English. But I can still roll my “R’s” as good as the best of them.
I’m a real motoRrrrrrrr .

-J.C.

P.S. I know John is humorous, that’s why I gave a little smile at the end.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-07-2001 11:04 PM

Wink

Javier,

Thanks for confirming that you too can see the humor in this thread.
For me its a bit like coming home to my favorite TV program. We post
one evening, go to bed and then when I get home from work the next day
I can’t wait to see the next chapter in the story.

Oh, yeah. I do speak Spanish…I even pick up my bi-lingual
allowance every payday. Growing up in Santa Barbara County it was a
must…my friends spoke Spanish at home. Little did I know “way back
when” how much money I’d make because I took those classes just because
I enjoyed them. (Sorry Mary & Keith – I know…OT)


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-08-2001 12:37 AM

John,

This evening I was involved in following up on your reference material
from your postings on another site. And guess what? As I was following
the Frank Tipler/Tipler sinusoid material I landed on the “Ultimate
Bulletin Board” Time Travel thread.

There were the Big Three from this thread: You as TimeTravel_0, Pamela, Javier and one other fellow on page 11…Trott.

I believe that I nailed the anagram. And I swear, I didn’t peak at
the Ultimate Bulletin Board first. I nailed Trot last night and found
Trott tonight.


Posted by Barbara Clements on 03-08-2001 03:39 AM

Tried to find this Ultimate Bulletin Board, but am not allowed in,
because one must be a member. Can you list the site? Am I at the right
site address?


Posted by John Titor on 03-08-2001 07:32 AM

((There were the Big Three from this thread: You as TimeTravel_0, Pamela, Javier and one other fellow on page 11…Trott. ))

((I believe that I nailed the anagram. And I swear, I didn’t peak at
the Ultimate Bulletin Board first. I nailed Trot last night and found
Trott tonight.))

I find this interesting because it gives me a very tempting easy
out. I could now rest assured that someone had “figured me out” and I
can relax before I leave.

However, I am not Trott and this name and TTO are the only names
I’ve used online. After looking at my name here, have you considered
its origin from another word-play standpoint? For example, TITOR could
equal TIme-Travel-OR.

After looking at your name Mr. Darby, I can pull out “MEET ME TAR
BABY” which I’m assuming is a reference to the Song of the South. In
that case, are you telling us in a secret way that you are trying to
distract us by fooling us in the bre’r patch?

I would not insult your collective intelligence by leaving a hook
out there for you to discover while I was making sport of you. Whether
I’m a time traveler or not, I think we’ve spoken about many important
things I would not want to diminish.


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 03-08-2001 08:22 AM

One of John’s messages is one of impending Civil War (or some kind of war)

If you haven’t noticed, this generation is Ready to Rumble

DELTONA — A fifth-grade boy on Tuesday threatened to bring a gun
to Sunrise Elementary School, one day after a school shooting in
Southern California left two people dead and 13 others injured.

… With the nation on edge over a deadly school shooting in San
Diego, more incidents of school violence were reported Wednesday, but
no one was killed. In Pennsylvania, police commended a teen-ager who,
after a classmate was shot inside their crowded cafeteria, persuaded
the alleged shooter to drop her gun.

…In the jittery two days after the deadly shootings at Santana
High School, at least 11 California students were arrested and several
more suspended for reportedly making threats against classmates or
bringing real or fake weapons to schools.

…Authorities in Washington state arrested a student Wednesday for
allegedly bringing a gun to Kentwood High School in suburban Seattle.

…Three junior high school students in San Bernardino County were
arrested Tuesday for threatening to place a bomb on a teacher’s desk


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-08-2001 08:26 AM

Hey John,

I don’t know about you being well read, but I do know your well
taught in matters of not wanting to apper manipulative to your fans .


Posted by Randy Empey on 03-08-2001 11:05 AM

Javier –

Me, earlier:

quote:Actually,
I have a question (which is along very simmular lines as what I think
John is getting at) that I want to see you answer: Can you prove or
disprove anything? And if your answer to that is ‘Yes.’ then I’d also
like to have you prove it.



Javier, earlier:

quote:Randy,


Prove what? All I did was point out John’s discrepancies. I think
it’s proof enough, if you can see what he’s said in past post, and what
he says now. It doesn’t match up.


First things first: Prove what? Well, that you can prove anything, for starters.

Discrepancies in written material isn’t proof enough of anything.

It certainly is important information, and thanks for pointing out what you have.

But please stop pretending it is proof of anything.

There still is room for AT LEAST a reasonable doubt, both ways, here .
. . and the generally accepted norm is to assume an individual
not-guilty of a crime until they can be prooven guilty without a
reasonable doubt.

Timetravel ain’t a crime, I’m fairly certain.

But lying certainly seems like one.

So lets assume John not-guilty of lying about being a time-traveler
until you can prove to us that he isn’t without a reasonable doubt.

You still won’t be able to prove it absolutely though, so don’t pretend you can.

And, just so you know, I don’t think the above is a proof, but I do
think it elliminates many reasonable doubts about my argument.

Lets let John and my fellow ‘lemmings’ talk philosophy, physics and
about the human condition, and cut down a bit on the evil-timetraveler
rhetoric, OK?


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-08-2001 01:47 PM

Let’s see, John, you are a time-traveler or not.

Your story is true or not.

Interesting anyway, hoped you used some of the links.

Thanks.


Posted by Jay Richards on 03-08-2001 02:20 PM

John, I want to be sure to get this Q out before you might stop
posting here. I’ve read a number of posts, but I’ll go back and read
the entire thread afterwards, so sorry if this has been adequatly
covered already.

From your perspective of posting as a time traveller from 2036,
please tell if any significant theistic events occur between now and
then and if so, please describe.

(That question does not directly pertain to religion)


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-08-2001 03:10 PM

<<However, I am not Trott and this name and TTO are the only
names I’ve used online. After looking at my name here, have you
considered its origin from another word-play standpoint? For example,
TITOR could equal TIme-Travel-OR.

After looking at your name Mr. Darby, I can pull out “MEET ME TAR BABY”
which I’m assuming is a reference to the Song of the South. In that
case, are you telling us in a secret way that you are trying to
distract us by fooling us in the bre’r patch? >>

Actually, John, I did consider Time-Travel-OR based on the moniker
TimeTravel_O elsewhere. I didn’t consider that as a possibility as it
begs the question, “Time Travel-OR what?”

It’s never been my motivation to attack your veracity. Whether you are
an actual time traveler or not doesn’t concern me. I did consider that
you might have opted to create your own foil in Trott (or even Javier)
to create a sophistic dialogue through which your message is delivered.
You and Trott – Phaedo and Echerates of Phlius: instead of discussing
the four arguments of immortality while lamenting the suicide of
Socrates, you discuss the possibility of time travel and the society of
our not too distant future. I still find you to be humorous and thought
inspiring.

Oh, the anagram of my name: Emmett is my first name and “Darby” is
a nickname taken from my last name, Darbyshire. I hope that my Gaelic
ancestors didn’t play a joke on me by giving me that last name and
having my parents give me that first name.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-08-2001 07:34 PM

Randy,

So am I to assume that there is no way of truly answering your
prove it question? Especially here in a forum, where anyone can
fabricate anything and try to pass if off as the genuine truth.

So I guess however you put it, we can’t prove anything here. And in the
end, we’ll still be asking the questions, “Was John telling the truth”
“Was he a real Time Traveler”?

I personally don’t believe him, but you and others may think other
wise. I only trust what I can feel inside my guts. They have never
steered me wrong before. I got a Spidey Sense .

Can’t prove that either, but I’m not here to convince you of anything. I just call’em how I see’em, that’s all.


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 03-08-2001 09:28 PM

John – Could you give us your reaction to the following. It is from
another folder on these school shootings. And BTW, what are yourt
thoughts on what’s happened this week throughout the country. We had a
kid run over four college students in Sta. Cruz and a rash of weapons
related inceidents in High Schools throughout the country.

Here’s an excerpt. I hope Mr. Hamner does not mind

“I was talking to a dear friend of mine last night. He seemed very upset so I asked what was up and if I could help.

He related that his 14 year old son was now in the custody of the
police. I asked what had happened. He then told that his son and some
other boys had just gotten into paintball. On the school bus they’d
talk about the games they were playing. The bus driver understood that
it was only paintball. Anyway, the bus driver told the boys that “they
were just plain evil” at that my friends son told the bus driver “no,
if I was evil I’d shoot you” (not smart in todays enviroment), this
happen monday afternoon. On Tuesday night the sheriff’s department
showed up and arrested his son, took him to the juvenile detetion
center. As of last night my friend had been unable to talk to his
child. He has met with the school officials, the principle was unaware
of the incident.”


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-08-2001 10:50 PM

Craig,

If you don’t mind me asking, what are you hoping to accomplish by having John answer this?


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-09-2001 12:19 AM

Craig,

I’m with Javier on this one. Other than being just another guy on the
street what difference does it make what John feels about the four
incidents (count ‘em, four) you referred to?

There wasn’t a rash of incidents. There was one major incident at a
school followed by editors running as lead stories anything that
involved a kid and a weapon nationwide. No San Diego incident = no
“rash” (the wire services wouldn’t pick up on the stories) And a small
correction. Unless UC Santa Cruz ALSO had four students run over, it
was UC Santa Barbara (actually in Isla Vista) where the students were
run over – about two miles from my home and 250 miles from Santa Cruz.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-09-2001 01:18 AM

According to a talk-show host that looked all over the country and
was talking about it on his show, there was a “rash” of incidents with
school kids. Let’s see, Thursday.

I think the kids think its “cool” to be able to talk to their
other peers and tell them about what they do. Well, something has to be
done about this. I would tell you what the talk-show host and others
blame it on, but that would probably start a debate that never ended.
Some parents were acting strange also. Parents taking a base-ball bat
to school to, I guess, be arrested. Strange people. Try the relaxation
response. It takes time to work, maybe a month, be when you feel deeper
relaxed, you will know. Concentrate on your breathing and quiet your
brain activity so you dwell on no one thought, let them pass just out
without dwelling on life’s problems. Negative thoughts you have to
consciously do, it takes practice, say cancel, cancel to yourself
should one come in. In a quiet place, and undisturbed for about 20
minutes.

Something else needs to be taught to kids in school.

What has all this to do with time travel?

This thread has a life of its own, traveling itself through time. It may end up in the year 2036, before its done.


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 03-09-2001 05:58 AM

Not to get too morbid, though its interesting to me, as the premise
of John’s situation is that in 2012 the world is at war. Not hard to
see why, with a whole generation of kids wondering if they’re next to
see a friend go postal.

There’s more to this topic, ten year olds become 20 year olds and
carry the day etc. Its not a stretch to believe a civil war is
imminent. That’s all


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-09-2001 06:53 AM

“There wasn’t a rash of incidents. There was one major incident at a school followed by editors running as lead stories

anything that involved a kid and a weapon nationwide. No San Diego
incident = no “rash” (the wire services wouldn’t

pick up on the stories) And a small correction. Unless UC Santa Cruz ALSO had four students run over, it was UC

Santa Barbara (actually in Isla Vista) where the students were run
over – about two miles from my home and 250 miles

from Santa Cruz.”

Actually… there was a rash of incidents. I’m aware of seven
different things that happened here in Colorado yesterday, alone. I’m
certain there were dozens of other such incidents throughout the
country yesterday.

Here we had 2 bomb threats, 3 “civil disturbances” at other schools
in other areas, and there was a kid here that placed a “fake bomb” in a
school in Colorado Springs. There was reference to something else like
a gun being found in another school somewhere, but I didn’t catch the
location.

So.. that was just MY state. How about other states?


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-09-2001 07:03 AM

I need to continue this thought here. First of all, we have in most
of our school systems something called a “Zero Tolerance Policy”. This
equates to a “Zero Common Sense Policy” based upon the busdriver
incident alone. Anyone listing to the kids talk would understand the
kid didnt make a threat, he made a statement.

We have a society where political correctness (read: Thought
Control) is the norm. Kids aren’t allowed to carry a pocket knife (I
carried a HUNTING KNIFE on my belt when I was in grade school, in
Kentucky… as I walked through the woods to school. No one ever said
ANYTHING to be about it.)

Anything that can be construed as a weapon is banned, even if it isn’t a weapon.

The media has the attitude that banning this or that is newsworthy (i.e. guns, kids getting in to fights in school etc).

So, what we really have (all of this above, plus all the other
little things that nag at us every day) is a society waiting for
something bigger to trigger something else.

Now, I’m not saying that we’re waiting for that civil war, but I AM
saying that we have placed ourselves in a very sensitive, precarious
position by making everything so “hair-trigger” likely to put something
else into motion.

Time moves forward for us, and those nodal points of change can be anywhere in our future.


Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-09-2001 07:11 AM

Judging by the endurance of this thread if Mr. Titor is a time
traveler or not will be a moot point. When this topic is done he will
be in his own time.


Posted by John Titor on 03-09-2001 07:52 AM

____________________________________________________________

I think the day when animals are born, raised on a farm, slaughtered
within 15 to 50 miles of that farm, and sold in the area, is just about
OVER. This outbreak is, in my opinion, the swan song for local farming.
I can hear the very large lady warbling in the background…

If, the virus was released because of the bombing of Iraq in Feb., then
there is ONE more Country that remains to be punished. The US. If the
UK was an act of agraterrorism, then what hell awaits the US?

Of course, please keep in my, this is pure speculation…there is no hard data in to support this theory…YET.

____________________________________________________________

Greetings everyone. I do plan to get to the questions soon. I have been
quite busy lately so I apologize for being a bit slow.

In my travels over your web, I came across this section of a
speculative news article. I would urge you all to take a good hard look
at this idea and consider the possibility that it is true. And…..no, I
did not make this up nor am I trying to tell you something in a
left-handed way.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-09-2001 08:36 AM

John,

A comment from “the intel department”. I follow global intelligence
extremely closely. Some of us in my security community believe that Mad
Cow disease is not speculative terrorism, it is fact. No proof, but
many, many talking points on the subject can show it. I’ll give you
some examples.

1) The west uses more beef/red meat products than ANY OTHER COUNTRY – in fact more than most other countries put together.

2) Eco-terrorism, by some of the anti-meat eaters has been
considered, but at the same time, it is not conducive to them to kill
animals, because the majority of non-meat eaters in western culture
believe “animals have rights” and would consider such a thing a type of
genocide.

3) Biological warfare is indeed the greatest threat to our society.
It is cheap, easy to produce, easy to release, and most importantly…
biological warfare is “Stealth Warfare”. Biological agents can be
released as an aerosol, into water, into food.

4) What better way to destroy a country than to screw up their food
sources. By creating a messed up animal supply, you thrust the prices
of meat skyward, quickly. You cause the production to drop, loss of
wages, loss of profit, loss of food supplies. You put a strain on
several other food sources to take up for the lost portion of
production.

5) A sudden and deadly resurgence of a disease that hasn’t really
been a problem for decades is a very obvious attack. This is the very
reason people believe things like AIDS is a biological agent that got
loose on society. It appeared quickly in the 80s. It could not be
traced, and what little tracing they showed, claimed it came from
“monkeys” or apes or something (I don’t recall the specifics at this
point). However, AIDS like other such diseases can not simply “begin to
exist” without mutations or some other intervention. Mad Cow disease,
as well as Hoof and Mouth disease (what we call it in America – they
call it Foot and Mouth in the UK) has suddenly appeared with a
vengence. The former is a relatively new disease. The latter is very
old, but, was pretty much wiped out. Suddenly, it is back.

So, we have two things specifically in the UK that are attacking
hoofed creature. Both of which are either new or resurgences of old
diseases. These diseases came about at roughly the same time, and
spread rapidly.

I believe (and I’ve not had a lot of time to research it, but then,
I’m betting it will be very difficult right now to track it precisely)
that this most recent outbreak occured in several places
simultaneously. If so, it was definately a planned and probably well
carried-out attack.

America is NEXT. But, not only will it be something like Hoof and
Mouth, Mad Cow something else will likely be introduced as well. Swine
flu, something that attacks chickens and perhaps some kind of wheat
blight. That would hit MAJOR portions of our food supplies, causing all
the aforementioned problems, plus more.

A major economic crash is likely. THis would weaken the US to a great extent opening us up for other types of attacks.

Currently America is under attack by several former states of the
Soviet Union, many arab states and terrorist organizations already.
They are coming in through computers and networks, probing constantly,
looking for weaknesses, testing our defenses and looking for the proper
time and place to make a major attack.

Things to watch:

A) Increased internet attacks.

B) A MAJOR attack on the internet.

C) Sudden outbreak of any sort of weird animal diseases.

D) Increased readiness of the military in the US.

E) Increased movements of the military in the US.

F) Increased public awareness of police force training, particularily in computer attacks, raids finding “illegal guns”.

G) Attacks on “militia groups” again.

When the latter occurs, be prepared for the Pro-Consitution forces
to get loud, and “in-your-face” attitudes. They will not stand for more
attacks on the Second Amendment.

Anyway – those are from my point of view. Whether I am completely
accurate or not, remains to be seen. However, I believe my data is
accurate, and I am not usually wrong on the “big picture”.

Rick


Posted by Bob Marz on 03-09-2001 08:53 AM

John, busy? You mean you have other things to do on your vacation besides talk to us?

Darby mentioned a few posts ago that he thought possibly the Javier
personna might be a “sophisticated dialogue” construct of our
time-traveller for self dialogue. Eh? We need to examine your
definition of “sophisticated.”

[Edited by Bob Marz on 03-09-2001 at 09:06 AM]


Posted by John Titor on 03-09-2001 03:27 PM


((Darby mentioned a few posts ago that he thought possibly the Javier
personna might be a “sophisticated dialogue” construct of our
time-traveller for self dialogue. ))

Had you considered the possibility that Javier is the one who made me up? But, as we both know Bob, I am YOUR alter ego.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-09-2001 08:37 PM

John,

Do I sense some covert hostility in that last remark?

Just keeping you honest, how you said I do .


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-09-2001 09:32 PM

Smile

Have you considered the possibility that I made up both Javier and John?


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-09-2001 10:38 PM

Hahaha . Right Pamela. That’s really funny.

And everyone is just a figment of my imagination after all just like I always suspected.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-09-2001 10:53 PM

The moral implications for the future are real enough. Ever since
the US had to construct the atom bomb, moral questions of what we are
doing now seem to last longer.

Take that we, as people, as humans, are getting into enough gray
areas with human cloning, using human embryos, and such topics of the
day, I think the moral questions will be around longer than they were
in the past. Never before this time had we had to ask ourselves the
morality of civilization. Nuclear weapons are still not really solved,
we seem as humans to be digging a hole ourselves with these questions
which can seem to imply that the probability of future events being
grim becomes more real as we grapple with these questions.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-10-2001 11:51 AM

Albert,

But you think Time Travel is Okay?

Just want to make sure I’m understanding where you stand. Because there
is so much hypocrisy in the world these days. Where some people claim
they are against something bad, but not against something else that’s
bad. Which when you look at it, there one in the same. See what I’m
saying?

Javier C.


Posted by Joe Applebaum on 03-10-2001 02:16 PM

Question for John:

You say that you wear some kind of flight suit like coveralls when
you are time traveling and that you experience 2 g’s for 6-8 hrs. How
is it possible to withstand that kind of g-force for such a long period
without the use of an anti-g suit? If not to keep you from blacking
out, at least to make your time travel safer and more confortable? I
know you must be physically trained for space travel, but you should
also have the benefit of equipment to help you out.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-10-2001 04:27 PM

Javier,

Being in a free country dictates that certain people will do certain
experiments(?) without regard to who complain’s about it. The rest of
us are left to decide other alternative actions to prevent these leaps
of technology from interferring with humanity on (as) a whole. I had
little choice in the making of a atom bomb. If the US did not do it,
than it is probable that Hilter would have. With that, things in the
future would be indeed different. So, as with anything, we are (forced,
as in War) to do a certain number of things. In peace, we are still
(forced) to see what other countries are up to. The fear of America is
that if we fall behind, then someone someway will take control of us.
In the case of the Middle East, I suppose that would be Saddam. In the
case of a time traveler, I doubt he could achieve such a possibility
unless he knew every “connection” to change the events of history. That
part was described in that book by Jonathan Burke in the book
“Connections”. I make no commitment as to the morality of time travel.
Someone will do it, if it’s possible, someday. Otherwise, we have no
freedom. We are left to change things in the future should enough
people agree that time travel is a “bad” thing. But then there might be
“bad” people time traveling and “good” people time traveling in a kind
of “time travel war”.


Posted by John Titor on 03-10-2001 07:26 PM

Dear Fellow Time Travelers:

In about 30 days, I will be leaving this worldline to return home to
2036. I first want to say thank you for the wonderful conversation and
insight into your society. I have learned a great deal and my opinion
on quite a few things has changed dramatically.

I will finish the questions that have been posted on this site up
to this date. Unfortunately, I must now spend my spare time preparing
to leave and I will not be on the computer very much. I do however want
to repeat my offer and add a slight twist.

After going over my flight plan home, I have discovered my VGL holdover
period is a bit longer than I expected. I will be spending at least
three weeks in April of 1998 as I make my way back to 1975. Therefore,
I not only offer you the chance to leave a message to yourself in 2036
but I offer you the chance to leave yourself a message in 1998. I will
take any compiled messages and email addressees you provide and send
them on the net when I get to 1998.

Granted, this will not affect you on your worldline now but you make
take some comfort that another “you” on another worldline has the
advantage of knowing something you wish you knew three years ago. Based
on the earlier questions I’ve seen, I’ve decided a day-to-day record of
the Dow a day in advance should convince you that the messages are real
in 1998.

In addition, I am hopeful a series of photocopies and photographs
will be available for you that may give you more insight into the
technology of the distortion unit. I will let you know the address of
the site when it is available. I also plan to have my parents videotape
my departure. If they succeed, it will also be posted after I leave.

I look forward to these last few weeks with my family and I will check in periodically to check this site.

Live in Peace 2001,

John


Posted by Bob Marz on 03-10-2001 09:19 PM

Maybe Moe Howard is a “sophisticated dialogue” device for Steven Hawkings?

Well, Johnny, you’ve been entertaining for the most part.
Nevertheless, I find it rather depressing that time travel, the most
exciting and profound accomplishment of man, is being put to such banal
and frivolous use. The most wonderful invention possible in all of
human history and they apparently can’t figure out what to do with it
other than arrange for you to amuse us few idjits here on the Art Bell
message board. Kinda makes ya proud. (thniff)

[Not edited by the future Bob Marz on 03-10-2036 at 09:21 PM - message being sent back to 2001]

[Edited by Bob Marz on 03-10-2001 at 09:27 PM]


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-10-2001 11:35 PM

Good luck in whatever worldline you return to.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 01:10 AM

Albert,

Well I had a hard time getting through what all your rhetoric was
about. And still didn’t see you actually answer my question. “Where do
you stand?” Well that’s not important now, as I see that you believe
John Titor, A.k.a. TT_0 is for real. So thank you for proving my point
correctly.

Hypocrisy I tell you.

First you came off as inspirational, speaking with convictions about
right and wrong. But in the end, you’re only as much a hypocrite as the
rest of us are.

I however do not tolerate immoralities on any level, and I live my life
according to basic human law. Compassion and principal our my guiding
truths. “We the people” should realize this, and not accept what is
basically wrong. There have been to many compromises, too much
acceptation. But the truth is clear, that despite all of what we are
trying to accomplish, of becoming an advance civilization and people,
we are failing in the worst possible way. And that is by following our
principles.

Just think about that…

John,

I see you finally made your big pre-farewell speech. Very nice, you
almost made me feel sorry to see you go. Then I remembered what you
are. An opportunist.

Well wherever you go, just remember me! And know that wherever you
stand, that somewhere someone with enough guts exists to change the
entire face of Time Travel someday. Your days are numbered…

30 more days huh John? You know that’s a very interesting number. Because I’m going to FL in 30 days also, coincidence huh?

Let’s see in 1998, I was 18 years old. I graduated high school that year
good year. Except for some personal problems. I wrote a story that year
about my new experiences, I think you read it before Pamela. Remember
“Displacement?”

Catch-ya on the flip side,

Javier C.

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 at 01:13 AM]


Posted by Stephen McKay on 03-11-2001 02:37 AM

John,

These messages to oneself in 1998 sound very interesting.

Is there somewhere I can e-mail it to rather than post it on the board?


Posted by Michelle Esposito on 03-11-2001 03:59 AM

John, I’d like to take you up on your offer for the 1998 message to
myself. I assume your instructions will appear on this thread . . .


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 04:15 AM

Geeeez Louise… See now that’s what I’m talking about, right there.

Talk about being a lost soul.


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-11-2001 06:10 AM

John has asked me if I wouldnt mind collecting the emails for him again and forwarding them to him.

anybody who wants to can write me using my email address found in my
profile and I will forward your letters or “messages to 1998″
,”messages to 2036″ to John.

All messages I receive I will keep confidential and they will be forwarded right to John.

sincerely,

Pamela

[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-11-2001 at 06:17 AM]


Posted by LaMar Prince on 03-11-2001 06:23 AM

Thumbs up

I would like to E-Mail You. I would like to Leave message. Like the
the Poster said I’m sure You will leave instructions?………Peace!
L>P>


Posted by Randy Empey on 03-11-2001 07:08 AM

Javier —

Didn’t you ever play ‘pretend’ as a child?

Also, why do you feel that you have such a firm grasp on reality right now that you can say such things with such certainty?

I find that, usually, those who shout ‘hypocrisy’ from the rooftops are trying to draw attention from thier own.

Their are so many untruths and myths that bombard us daily, either
through design or simply the uncertain nature of communication, that we
ALL swallow hook-line-and-sinker that most the things you think you
know are wrong.

Since there is no firm basis to rate new experiences about,
generalizing from past experiences can be a dangerous game of darts.

Reserving judgement and thinking things through is warranted.

Quite being so loud the rest of us “can’t” think.

Everybody has an agenda. Everybody has shortcomings.

BBSes are fantasy worlds by nature, and nothing you try can change that.

Let the people who still remember how to pretend play thier games
without too much trouble and you won’t get called names on the
‘playground’.

Life’s all a big play anyway. (Probably a play within a play . . .)

Let the guy play out his ‘final scene’ if he wants . . .

. .. wait, maybe I’m infringing on your pretending .. .

… if I am, my sincere apologies.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-11-2001 08:45 AM

John,

So long and have a good trip home.

As I’ve pondered your experience of being here it ocurred to me
that I should cover my bases and at least try to make a living from the
information that you’ve given us. So…

I’m in the process of filing copyright protection in my name for the following terms:

Temporal Displacement Unit

Variable Gravity Lock

VGL

Variable Gravity Lock Model C204

VGL C204

Model C204

Variable Gravity Lock Model C206

CGL C206

Model C206

Singularity Magnetic Field Coil

Electron Mass Injection Manifold


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 09:58 AM

Javier,

First, I’ll keep the social demise in mind.

Second, I do not believe.

Third, I do not think TT will be solved in my lifetime, therefore I do not have to have any morals about it.

That will be for some future person.

Fourth, from my viewpoint, it is just one of many possibilities that could occur in the future.

Fifth, if TTler is true, then wishing anything to him is just something that I wish upon myself also.

Sixth and most important. There have been problems associated with
the theory presented that neither the TTler or I can resolve at this
time, in my estimation, and I am usually right. So, for the other
people, I leave them also with their thoughts.

I would discuss this in more detail about the problems associated
but I really have got other things to do and these other things are
really more important.

Seventh, to me it has been just an exercise in thought, and I
think humankind have more immediate problems facing us now, that I see
on other websites like the BBC in England and Talking Point or some of
their news articles.

Eighth, that’s all I can do now. I can not solve the technical problems associated with building a time machine.

Ninth, I getting close to the end of my post.

Tenth, when all else fails, count to ten.


Posted by E. Robert Gonzalez on 03-11-2001 10:19 AM

Hopefully you can answer my past questions before you leave and send
that message out. It really has been enjoyable watching this thread and
getting to know you John. There is a part of me that wants to believe
and another that says your not a time traveler. But right now I believe
you, and you being here means one way or another time travel is real. I
only hope all my alternate selves are doing well. I was thinking
though, if all these alternate timelines are so similar… Then
shouldn’t another “you” be doing the samething in another timeline,
possibly in infinite time lines? Because if that is so, then another
“you” would go back to our timeline in 1998 per se and we’d actually
get the messages that people are sending. Now, I’m not sure if that is
possible or not. But, in my understanding it seems likely with what you
said about alternate universes.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 10:31 AM

Javier,

First, Good luck to you in your worldline.

Second, The things the TTler is talking about in the near future will not occur in your lifetime, to me.

Third, Have you visit this website, http://www.nist.gov/

There you will find a picture of an atomic clock at present.

Fourth, Our Solar System is near the edge on an arm of the Milky Way Galaxy.

Fifth, There may be a Black Hole at the center of our Galaxy.

Sixth, I think humankind will have to worry if the Sun, Sol, burns up
first in 5,000,000,000 years or the Solar System gets sucked into the
Black Hole at the center of our Galaxy.

Seventh, Still its nice to dream, or have a fantasy wish.

Eighth, I must really really go now.

Ninth, I will just say that social problems have been around
forever on this Planet, and it is still traveling in space along with
the Milky Way Galaxy, at what I think is, at about 33 miles/second. No
need to be space-sick.

Tenth, Ever since I became, I been traveling through space and
time. Just trying to have a little fun in the great demise of things,
all past, all present, all future, all, all.

Best wishes to everyone on this forum and the world and “Just say No”.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 10:49 AM

While, I probably get in trouble: specific links:

http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/stations/wwv.html

Good luck All!

[Edited by Mary Rowland on 03-11-2001 at 10:55 AM]


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 10:51 AM

Oops, the other link, while I’m getting in trouble.

http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/stations/tour.html


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-11-2001 12:41 PM

John -

In 2036 I will be in the mountains in Colorado. Somewhere west of
where Colorado Springs used to be. Not sure if I will have access to
the internet at that point, but I WILL have access to radio equipment.
Somewhere around January 1-10th, 2036 I will be broadcasting on 28390
Khz, USB. I will look for you there on that frequency in the middle of
the day.

I will 77 years old – and will turn 78 that year.

I expect to hear from you then.

Rick

PS – I AM one of the “farmer generals” John mentioned. Perhaps not the most famous… but, I will be there.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 12:42 PM

Randy,

Obviously you must not have been listening to what I been saying from the start.

And people blamed me for speaking for everyone.

((Quite being so loud the rest of us “can’t” think.))

Is it perhaps because I make you think of what your doing, thus spoiling what you what you want to believe him as real?


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-11-2001 12:46 PM

Ack!

I forgot to mention that I’ve also listed “John Titor” on the
copyright application – just in case I want to write a book using that
name as a character.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-11-2001 12:58 PM

After spending the last few days working on family business and
keeping my mind busy thinking about time traveling, from John’s point
of view, I have come to a sudden and surprising conclusion.

John is perhaps what he says he is… however, I don’t think he is
a “TIME TRAVELER” – I think he is a world-line, or for lack of a better
word, a dimension traveler.

I say this based on a couple of assumptions. His machine uses
gravity calculations/measurements to maintain his “physical position”.

But, he claims there is up to a 2.5 % divergence from his reality.

That means to me that:

1) He is NOT on his ‘reality” but on ours.

2) He will be going back to his reality – or at least pretty close to it.

3) Our reality is not precisely his reality.

4) There are multiple worlds, multiple time lines if you will and he is no longer on his orginal one.

5) Anything he does here on our time line will NOT EFFECT OUR TIME
LINE EXCEPT locally (time related). That is, if he were to kill
someone’s grandparents here, they would NOT cease to exist on HIS time
line. They would here though. If he goes back to 1975 and does this,
OUR grandparents will be JUST FINE. It is the ones on the time line
where he stopped.

6) John’s machine uses tipler cylinders – somehow. I believe it
would be very possible to create a tipler cylinder using singularities.
A physcist I know confirmed my suspicions on Friday-last. He stated
that such a machine could be built now. He said that it would take some
strong scientific work on the part of linear accelerator scientists
though, and so far as he knew, it hasn’t been accomplished YET, but
will be in the very near future.

7) If microsingularities are made, they can be held in ‘statis’ or
in a magnetic field in a vacuum. According to my physcist that is. If
so, it would be possible to effect them with magnetic fields in such a
manner as to allow them to interact with each other (on that micro
scale).

8) If so – then it might be very possible to speed up, slow down or
even STOP time altogether. In fact, he believes it possible to reverse
time altogether.

9) The effects of using such a machine would be that “high
gravitational fields would be present around the machine”. However, at
this point, neither myself, him nor other folks we talked to could come
up with a way to measure gravity fields with any reliable method.
(Scales, things like that work, but… that is rather crude I think).

10) Anything within the field of a tipler cylinder would be carried
along with the device… the method of “travel” would or could be based
on voltages applied to the magentic fields in some manner as to cause a
change in the rotation of the field.

11) John’s machine will not take him back in time. It takes him to
a diffent time LINE, in a different world, on a different plane of
existence.

Anyway, that’s my 2-cents worth. Perhaps I’m wrong. Perhaps I’m
right. No matter if John is a real TT or not is moot at this point.

John… take this message back in time to 1998 and … how do you propose to see that we get these messages anyway????

I will post it on my web site, which is already up in 1998.

Rick


Posted by Jim Houlahan on 03-11-2001 01:51 PM

Albert,

Although laboratory standard atomic clocks are huge, commercial
standard atomic clocks are the size of a suitcase today. Given 35 years
of future development, I can imagine four of them fitting into John’s
device. Here’s a picture of the “suitcase atomic clock”…

http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/cesium.html


Posted by Randy Empey on 03-11-2001 02:15 PM

Javier —

Since I seldom sub-vocalize as I read, I don’t think it matters
whether I was listening or not . .. . I have been reading and trying my
darndest to understand… from the start.

As to this question:

quote:Is it perhaps because I make you think of what your doing, thus spoiling what you what you want to believe him as real?



My answer is simply, “Of course not.”

But you can pretend so if you wish. Pplease understand that
delusion is often a team sport. Or is it that non-delusion is often a
team sport?

Actually, I just have to wonder why you feel you have such a firm grasp
on this reality that you feel confident in many of the things you have
asserted.

But I guess I don’t expect an answer, since I am merely a figment of someone else’s imagination.

Either play by ALL the rules or throw them ALL out — no middle of the road please, I am already confused.

John –

Seems your journey will be forking from some of ours — watch out and don’t forget to smell the roses.

That said, lets disregared the sentimental stuff and keep up the
philosophizing. How about a few more monologues from the main character
here? The stage has been set, and your ques have been uttered.

(Javier — if it sounds like I speak for more than just myself, please just chalk it up to schizophrenia or simmular talents.)

[Edited by Randy Empey on 03-11-2001 at 02:21 PM]


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 03:35 PM

You know what Randy?

I’d expect that kind of a responds from a John Titor supporter.

The only difference between you and me is, is that when I make a
statement like that, but of speaking about morals and principles? I get
an angry rowdy crowd who believes I’m waking them up from their
fantasy. Hence the attacks.

And the difference is Randy, is that there are more of you then they
are of me out there in this world. So no one will ever complain to you
about being hostile, or not being open-minded. Your perfect, you fit
right in the norm of things in society. You’re perhaps the majority of
people who voted for Bill Clinton the second time around. The kinds of
people that support same sex marriages. You’re also the kind of people
that are waiting in line to get genetically engineered, or to clone
your self. Or to just try every “New Fad” that comes into the market.

How low can this countries morals get? I’d hate to find out.

So yes I do have a firm grasp on reality. I’m not blind, I can see very clearly. And I know what needs to be fixed. Do you?

-Javier C.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 04:42 PM

Thanks, Jim, I saw that page.

John, if you come back from the past or from the future,

can you call yourself “Power Time Traveler Ranger” in the “Way-back Laid-back Time Machine”.

By the way, is there a way that a yellow school bus can be included in the time field as a way of travel?

That might scare anybody from the past or the future.

Just a thought.


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-11-2001 05:04 PM

Wink

Javier,

For your sake, lets hope when you get discussed in the future, all
of John’s time travel buddies in his unit are as nice as he
is…………. hehe

[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-11-2001 at 05:06 PM]


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-11-2001 05:09 PM

Craig,

Can you tell them to speed up the development of that device by the year 2014, and bring it down in price so that I can buy one?

I am not joking.

Just a thought.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 05:20 PM

Pamela,

What’s that suppose to mean? Sounded like a threat to me. Care to clearify?


Posted by Bob Marz on 03-11-2001 05:40 PM

Seems pretty clear to me.

“Darby”: Good stuff!


Posted by Anthony Reed on 03-11-2001 05:56 PM

That seems clear to me too. I’m just sorry I’m late to this board.
And why would you be worried anyway Javier? I thought you did not
believe him anyway.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-11-2001 06:10 PM

Well Anthony,

Like you just said, your late to this board. Of course some details
will be unknown to you. But rest assured, if you read back I answer
that question.


Posted by Donnie Smith on 03-11-2001 08:44 PM

Wink

Rick, you are absolutely right. And, what John Titor has said
reflects exactly that. John is from the end result of a reality
shifting movement that is being given birth to now. They have
recognized that time does not exist in the fashion that many believe in
today, only infinite parallel realities in the same or different stages
of history or alternative history. The term time travel is, however,
the closest thing that humans of this period can relate to. In the
future, it has been adjusted to refer to the illusion of traveling to
the past or future. Those realities are mere reflections of where we
have been and where we are going, but are by no means the real mc coy!
Carry on John Titor, Peace from the Eye of Harmony of the Matrix of
this Reality. Have a safe trip.


Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-12-2001 08:41 AM

Wink

John:

Good luck to you. I do hope you make a visual record of your departure.
Thank you for the interesting thread. And did you ever answer whether
or not you have any siblings?

I have not decided whether or not you are a Time Traveler, but I do
believe the near future you have described is a real possibility, if
not even a probability. Let’s all be prepared and pray for the best.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-12-2001 12:55 PM

David,

Earlier in posts, if I understand it right, he said he was single. Many
stillborn in the future because of the War according to him.

He will probably check back.

Just thought that I include that.


Posted by Ron Polesky on 03-12-2001 01:31 PM

Wow! I have just spent the better part of an entire day reading
EVERY message within this thread and I must complement everyone on a
fine job! This has been some of the most entertaining and thought
provocative writing that I have read in a long time. Great job
everyone! I extend my sincerest thanks, a hearty cheer and (as a first
time poster) a warm hello.

To John Titor I reserve a special thanks for starting this thread!
Your consistency in conjunction with an entertaining narrative complete
with motive, ethics, physics, and general openness is amazing and
enlightening to say the least. However, above all of that, your calm in
facing some staunch and intelligent critics is an inspiration and
something rarely found on message boards when one is met with the fire
of emotion based in disbelief. If I take nothing else from this thread,
your steady coolness under such adverse criticism will be fondly
remembered and hopefully emulated.

Now, onto the crux of this posting:

Whether John is or is NOT a time traveler is moot, based upon my
own personal beliefs and experience. Simply put, the most powerful
component of ANY interaction or activity involving humans is the human
will. Because humans make hundreds or thousands of decisions everyday,
most very minor and immediately forgettable, the possibilities of
potential outcomes to ANY situation in which one is involved is subject
to randomness (chaos?). Our own personal decisions are influenced by a
multitude of factors such as mood, health, weather, stress,
intelligence, finances, family, interactions with other people, past
experience, future expectations, hopes, personal and societal myths…the
list could be endless.

And, of course, we are subjected not only to the outcomes of our
OWN decisions but also to those of others. For example, one poster
noted that a simple and common occurrence with a child potentially
helped him avoid a tragedy. If one accepts that my statements are true,
then it requires no giant leap of faith to also agree that this
randomness prevents anyone from EVER predicting a future event that
involves the decisions of humans.

Let us assume for the moment that John is indeed a traveler from
2036 and that all his statements are 100% fact. Within his own
timeline, these major occurrences of a civil war and a nuclear
holocaust have occurred and, based on a randomness factor of 2.5% one
could speculate that the same could occur here. We do, after all, have
the SAME people involved. However, 2.5% is a HUGE variable given the
already incalculable odds that a small decision by a child, for
instance, could change the whole scenario or outcome.

History is rife with stories of decisions that seemed meaningless
at the time averting or causing major disasters or occurrences. We even
have several words and terms to describe these things: luck,
misfortune, angel on my shoulder, God watching over me, wrong
place/wrong time, caught a break, etc. In fact, one of our favorite
pastimes as humans is “what if”. Given these factors, it is little
wonder that John will not give short-term “hard facts”…because he
doesn’t really KNOW! And, I speculate he knows he doesn’t know.
Just because Duke, for instance, won the NCAA tournament in 2001 in his
timeline is no assurance the same will happen here (if they and their
opponent score 150 points total in the championship game, nearly 4
points or 2.5% are going SOMEWHERE..add decision making under stress
and there is simply no WAY that an outcome could be predicted with
certainty).

Regardless, whether OUR future is the future that John “remembers” or
not, the randomness of human will and the factors impacting it will
insure a different outcome, for better or worse, in this timeline.
Different decisions cause different actions which nearly always render
different results.


Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-12-2001 02:30 PM

Ron Polesky:

Very good post. I wish you had been able to be here all the time.
You have drawn some conclusions that are thought provoking regarding
John’s or anyone’s ability to predict the future.

I, for one, take what many many find to be a simplistic view of
time travel theory, and that is that should time travel become
available, there is nothing any time traveler can do to change or alter
anyone’s timeline because it already has happened. I guess I would add
that if my theory is true, Javier, then you have nothing in which to
worry regarding John or any other Time Traveler.

Just my two cents worth….


Posted by Randy Empey on 03-12-2001 02:46 PM

Exclamation

Javier –

There is a difference between a John Titor supporter and a person who believes John Titor is a time-traveller.

I support John Titor in his effort to have a discussion in this thread.

I’ve reserved judgement about his veracity because there is simply
no way of knowing, and very little to be gained by guessing, even if I
guess right.

Frankly, I don’t think it matters whether he is hoaxing us or not.

It is the interaction and exchange that occurs here that matters.

Why is it that the moment I question the nature of reality and ask
you to do the same, I become a nazi-lovin’ liberal-satanist wannabee in
your eyes?

Javier, I am unique, friend. There are only one ‘of me out there in this world’. As such, I can’t out number you.

People will complain about anything and everything, as you now are proving.

I am not perfect, nor do I pretend to be.

Norms do not exist.

I never voted for Bill Clinton — your wrong on that one too.

Same sex marriages are just plain sick and wrong, IMO.

I don’t see how you can know how I stand on genetic engineering and
human cloning when haven’t even decided for certain — you really are
amazing.

Next time you chose to share a diatribe with us, please don’t engage in
character assassination as you do so. It makes it hard to see that much
of what you say agrees with the way I see things.

If you really are against John Titor and rational discussion in this
thread, calling names is the best way to declare your alignment.

Once again Javier, I must ask you (and I direct this at everybody
else too): Why are you so certain that you do have a firm grasp on
reality? Are you sure you see and understand all things very clearly?
How do you know what you know?

Indeed, do I know what needs to be fixed?

At times I feel I do, and I often act upon my beleifs and impulses in
an attempt to ‘fix’ the world . . . but, at other times, I wonder
whether its me or the world that needs fixing . . .

Proving things is impossible in this realm.

But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try.

It means the reward is in the trying.

The idea is to keep learning (ad infinitum) until you finally do
know everthing. And not to stop when convenient and declare that the
end has been reached.

.

Lets talk about the possibilities, since there are no certainties.

Excuse this outburst, it just felt right at the time.

Its not over till the fatlady sings John.

— Randy E.


Posted by Kevin Spooner on 03-13-2001 04:10 AM

Red face

There have been almost 19,000 views of these posts since its
inception and that alone gives credit to the number of people who are
interested in this topic.

Given the extreme interest (and it is extreme) and the number of
people who no doubt repeatedly visit here (as I do) even if not to
always post, but to READ… that is incredible.

John has stated he is ‘leaving’ in about 30 days. Someone else is
critical of that. If John said he was going on a two month Time travel
excursion for a particular reason, someone else would be critical. If
John said he’s making some kind of adjustment to his devices, someone
would be critical. Hmm.

Given that there is in my view no problem in relating information
by John – given the odds that his timeline deviates from ours by around
a possible 2.5%, it would seem fair to this threads viewers for John to
provide a thorough discourse on what his timeline offers (afterall
John, there’s no way you can be judged on that given your noted
deviance.)

It seems most of us are acting as if its the last goodbyes – but
don’t forget he gave us 30 days (or given himself the same.) Can we not
make use of that (whether he is or is not a TT is irrelevant.)

Perhaps final concrete questions could be answered at this time? We’ll see. There’s nothing to loose is there?


Posted by John Titor on 03-13-2001 06:32 AM

I’m going to try and get to the remaining questions today. Pamela
has been collecting the email and forwarding them to another address.
In respect for your privacy, I am not reading them. I am only planning
to forward them.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-13-2001 07:28 AM

Randy,

((It is the interaction and exchange that occurs here that matters. ))

Even if that interaction is generating a group of people following him,
praising him, looking up to him as this perfect role-model? It could
all just be a front, but they don’t care. They should however be made
aware of this. Just look at how those people in “Heaven’s Gate” felt
towards their founder? Mighty similar to what is happening here, and it
makes me sick to see it.

I am reminded of this quote. I don’t know who said it, just got it
out of some book with quotes: “Use your eyes. Sometimes those who offer
us eternal salvation surround themselves with dead plants.”

How many people here wish they could go with John in to the future?

How is that any different then those people who wanted to get on the Hale-Bop spaceship to Heaven?

((Why is it that the moment I question the nature of reality and
ask you to do the same, I become a nazi-lovin’ liberal-satanist
wannabee in your eyes?))

Because you and lots of people are 1 sided individuals, who can’t
conceive the possibility that I can actually be right about John and
Time Travel.

((I am not perfect, nor do I pretend to be. ))

I agree, I’m not either.

((I never voted for Bill Clinton — your wrong on that one too. ))

I said: “You’re perhaps the majority of people who voted for Bill Clinton the second time around” I didn’t say you did.

((If you really are against John Titor and rational discussion in this
thread, calling names is the best way to declare your alignment. ))

Is there something wrong in what I am trying to accomplish here? Am I not trying my hardest too?

I am also reminded of this quote: “Give the world the best you
have, and it may never be enough. Give the world the best you’ve got
anyway.”

((At times I feel I do, and I often act upon my beleifs and
impulses in an attempt to ‘fix’ the world . . . but, at other times, I
wonder whether its me or the world that needs fixing . . . ))

So your uncertain, I’m not. I know what needs to be fixed. I’ve seen it, I still see it. If you only knew…

And for the last time, yes I do have a firm grasp of reality. But
if you wish not to accept that answer, because it’s not to your
expectation, then I ask you to please stop asking it, for I will not
answer it again. Because there will not be a good enough answer for
you, no matter what I say.

((Proving things is impossible in this realm.))

I can prove things in this realm. Something’s are harder then others though.

((The idea is to keep learning (ad infinitum) until you finally do
know everything. And not to stop when convenient and declare that the
end has been reached. ))

The end will come when justice is served. I am merely trying to see
that justice gets served in the mean while. Cops do it all the time; do
you blame them for doing their job? I see something wrong, I have to
help. I can’t let someone down, especially if there is something I can
do about it.

((Lets talk about the possibilities, since there are no certainties. ))

Say’s you. But I don’t think I will take your word for it.

-Javier C.


Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-13-2001 07:40 AM

I will certainly miss this post when Johns gone . Maybe we can keep
it alive until 2036! If you’ve followed this thread you’ll notice I’ve
tried to keep a lighter side to my responses, mostly stupid comments
meant to break up the intense scrutiny some people have put John under.

As far as the most verbal of John’s critics, Javier Cortez, if I’m not
mistaken he has posted his age on the birthday thread as being 21 years
old. That could explain a lot. Now age is not that relevant, but
maturity rarely comes at that age. He is not a “Time Cop” as he states,
rather he probably harbors that fantasy. This is not an attack or
threat or anything of the sort. Just a statement of fact.

As far as John goes, it would be great if he is who he said he was. I
cannot pass judgement on him. All I can do is thank him for this most
interesting thread and wish him “God Speed” and tell him to keep the
Chevy out of the ditch.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-13-2001 08:01 AM

Mel,

The Time Cop statement was hypothetical. And I am very mature for my age, thank you very much.

Good-day,

Javier C.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-13-2001 08:41 AM

I belong in a cave.

Well, not yet. We (what do you mean we, human?) have lived through some
difficult times (from the past). But still the fact remains that
somehow, humans have gotten through it.

One could say that the probability of having a War increases since
we have had nuclear weapons around for a long time. If it comes to
pass, then what will you do?

I see no problem with being concerned about the future, maybe it becomes a good thought question.

What can anyone do about it? Meaning that the interaction of humans
may have a nullifying effect. Maybe John’s purpose is simple, maybe it
is complex. Still from leaders in the world, we still have posturing.
Here’s and example:

General Ivashov: Russia insists on preservation of 1972 ABM Treaty

12.03.01. 18:29

Russia’s position on the 1972 Treaty on the Limitation of
Anti-Ballistic Missile Systems is unchanged: it is necessary to
preserve the Treaty, strictly observe its standards, and perform all
obligations the sides took upon themselves, Colonel General Leonid
Ivashov, chief of the Main Directorate of International Military
Cooperation at the Defense Ministry of Russia, was reported as making
an official statement at a press conference in Moscow March 12.

He also stressed that “Russia regarded and regards NATO’s progress
east as a threat to its security and the Russian position in this
matter has suffered no changes either.”

In his opinion, the Russian proposals on the creation of a European
non-strategic antimissile defense system, which were handed to NATO
Secretary General George Robertson in the course of his February visit
to Moscow, “are diametrically opposite to the U.S. intentions of
creating a national missile defense system.”

The Russian proposals “are not leading to breaches of some
obligations or other treaties in this sphere,” he explained. The U.S.
intentions at the same time are leading to the disruption of the 1972
ABM Treaty, he said.

Russia’s proposals are based on the idea of creating “international
mobile forces for relocation to directions of missile threat, whereas
the U.S.A. intends to cover only its national territory with a
protective umbrella,” he said.

In this connection, in his view, the Russian proposals, as opposed
to the U.S. ones, “will not cause an arms race but rather may reverse
it.”

Creating an U.S. national missile defense system, on the contrary,
“will lead to a competitive process between creators of strategic
defense and attack systems,” he claimed.

In accordance with his statement, Russia will never agree to having
the United States unilaterally disrupt the foundation of international
security such as the ABM Treaty is.

Russia’s proposals on the creation of a European non-strategic
antimissile system are “diametrically opposite” to the U.S. plans to
create a national missile defense system, he said.

“Our proposals do not breach any agreements and will not lead to an
arms race whereas the U.S. program will assist a competitive process in
the area of strategic defense and attack systems,” he stressed.

He also mentioned the fact that in the UN Security Council 89
countries spoke against the U.S. national missile defense system and
only four in support of it. “The majority of countries are on our side
and this frightens the U.S.A.,” he concluded.

He also said Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov and U.S. State
Secretary Colin Powell would soon discuss the U.S. plans and the
Russian proposals in this area.

“For our part, we will try to convince the U.S.A. that the
implementation of their plans will have ruinous consequences for the
world community,” he said.

(It just seems right when a talk show host around where I live
still says that Russia still has people that react the old way, (as a
Communist) when discussing anything about these treaties.) As of
3/12/01, this article from a Russian newspaper (on-line) is still what
they are trying to convince their people of.


Posted by John Titor on 03-13-2001 08:46 AM

EMMETT:

((As you know, bodies under acceleration lose their initial
constant velocity worldline reference with respect to each other – the
Twins Paradox.))

I’m not sure that’s accurate. Twin Paradox time travel only
suspends your perspective on a local level as the “world” around you
goes on. You do not change worldlines.

((Given that you have a possible 2.5% divergence from your own
worldline (5% on a roundtrip?)on a 60-year trip and the
micro-singularities (each having their own worldline) are subject to
the same divergence, how do you keep them in phase?))

Good thinking but that’s not exactly the way they work and divergence is not cumulative.

((Does the divergence extend into N-dimensions? Is the 2.5% the
total error or is each dimension subject to the 2.5% divergence
individually?))

Yes, that’s a little closer. You should perhaps change the “N” to and “X” to avoid string theory confusion.

((…but how did you manage to overcome the problem of gathering
sufficient power to artificially create a micro-singularity in such a
short time (sometime prior to 2036))

The “machine” with the energy to do it will come on-line very soon.
The “method” for doing it has already been “mostly” perfected in the Z
machine at the National lab in New Mexico.

((I believe that it would theoretically take the total energy
output of the Sun since the time of Richard the Lionhearted (about a
thousand years) to form one micro-singularity, let along two.))

Not that much.

BOB:

((I haven’t seen an answer to my issue concerning moral turpitude through action or inaction. Did I miss it?))

If I missed something, please repeat it.

BRIDGET:

((But let me ask you one simple question: instead of sitting at
your computer, why not present yourself to George W, proof in hand?
THAT would throw quite a monkey wrench into the government’s cover-up
machine, don’t you think?))

Please take a look at the front cover of this month’s Popular
Mechanics because it’s a great example of your legacy to 2036 after the
war. One side of the cover it describes in great detail how your
government is ready spying on you. On the other side (and just as
important) it tells you how to install a hot tub.

The reason time travelers do not revel themselves is because your
society scares the hell out of us. We do not want to end up in a cement
room on a permanent supply of sodium prenatal as men with lab coats
poke at our machine with a screwdriver.

ALBERT:

((…but would not the vintage computer from 1975 be bigger than the time machine to haul back to the future?))

Not at all. The 5100 series will fit on a tabletop.

ANGEL:

((Are people using “reverse speech” in courts, etc. or even recreational?))

Not that I’m aware of.

RICK:

((…and John’s explanation was “gravity sensors”. While I’m not
aware of anything called a gravity sensor in this day and age, I
wouldn’t discount such a thing.))

http://es.epa.gov/ncerqa_abstracts/sbir/other/monana/warburto.html

For a second there, I thought 2.5% took a big chunk out of this
worldline. I found this site and I’m sure there are others out there.

((Russia, China, N. Korea, Cuba, Iraq, Iran, France – and you can add
quite a few others to this list – would just love to see America on her
knees and will do whatever it is they can to help us down there. NEVER
EVER UNDERESTIMATE enemies – especially FORMER enemies (like Russia).))

Didn’t North Korea just break off some sort of talks with South Korea?

MICHEAL:

((WACO…with criminal violations of the law either directly or
impliedly as is done in this video, simply doesn’t accord with the real
facts. Actually, there’s some evidence now to suggest that not only the
FBI, but other federal as well as state and local law enforcement
agencies have learned something from the Waco tragedy, and will take
great care not to repeat it.))

A large point of contention seems to be the “flashes” of light that
appear to be gunfire that were recorded from the aircraft flying over
the compound. The FBI has stated that these flashes were sunlight
reflections. I find that rather interesting since the camera was not a
visible light camera, it was a thermal camera. If the federal forces
learned anything from WACO it was to install more reliable suppressors
on their automatic weapons and don’t use flash grenades that leave
shell casings after the fire.

JOE:

Sorry for the short answers.

((1. Could you explain your theory about worldlines? Are there

infinite worldlines? Are all worldlines separate or

connected to each other in some way?))

Yes, worldlines are infinite. Yes, they are separate but can be traversed through certain large gravity anomalies.

((2. Where did you attend High school and what year did you

graduate? Was it difficult?))

No, I did not have a “high school” experience.

((3. What college did you attend, what year did you graduate?

Would you estimate that your college life was similar to

ours in our worldline? ))

I was educated at the University of Florida. I entered a military
sponsored program in 2029 and graduated between 2033 – 34. No, it was
not very similar.

((4. Hypothetically: If you fell in love with someone here

(lets say Pamela) and you took her “back to the future” with you in
your timex machine, wouldn’t that act upset both of our worldlines
especiall if she were pregnant? Or all of the worldlines,assuming time
travel is possible? Conversly, If you were gay and you took a gay man
back with you, would that disrupt the worldlines less, assuming the
both you could not bear offspring. ))

No, it would not disrupt anyone’s worldlines.

((5. Have you had a chance to watch a movie here that you had

already seen in your 2036 wordline? If so, did they have

the same endings?))

Interesting question. If I watch enough of them I should see a difference somewhere but I haven’t seen one yet.

BOB 25


Posted by John Titor on 03-13-2001 08:52 AM

EMMETT:

((I’m not sure that’s accurate. Twin Paradox time travel only
suspends your perspective on a local level as the “world” around you
goes on. You do not change worldlines.))

After reading this, it occured to me that our definition of worldline may not be the same.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-13-2001 09:18 AM

John,

(This may seem like a stupid question, since I am not familiar with any of this in my reality.)

Can world-lines converge closer together every so many years?

(Something like world-lines coming closer together during the time
Jesus was on Earth, and now in the future, with the awesome power
(nuclear) we have, an ebbing or flowing of the convergence and
divergence of world-lines.)

((I must add that if this is true, then morals of all world-lines
are tilted towards a certain aspect (good or evil) at these times,
(causing the outcome of many, many, many worldlines to be similiar at
those times)).

Just a thought.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-13-2001 12:26 PM

JOhn,

At one time I asked you about the mass of your singularities but
didn’t receive an answer. From other information gathered here it
appears that your machine heats to about 100 degrees (approx. 400
kelvin).

The Hawking Radiation of a singularity with a mass of 3 x 10^20 kg of mass would have a temperature of approx. 400 kelvin.

Hawking radiation in kelvins=(6 x 10^-8/M) where M is Solar masses. The smaller the mass the greater the temperature.

The mass of 3 x 10^20 kg is equilalent to a slice of the Earth 1.2
miles wide at the equator, extending from pole to pole to the depth of
the center of the Earth. (The mass of the Earth is 5.98 x 10^24 kg.)
Your society isn’t involved in space travel (according to earlier
posts) so it appears that your singularities are madfe from the Earth
itself. Ouch! Your society is killing the world. Eco-terrorists as it
were.

Where is the mass coming from?


Posted by John Titor on 03-13-2001 12:43 PM

EMMETT:

((Where is the mass coming from?))

E=MCsquared can be solved for mass too.


Posted by John Titor on 03-13-2001 12:49 PM

EMMETT:

This appeared to be the same question from the other site so I just copied my old response.

((For instance, he has stated that his society is not involved in
space travel. He’s also stated that the temperature in and around his
device while in use is approximately 100 degrees (approx 375 kelvin).
))

I’m not sure I understand the connection between no space travel and the temperature around the device.

((If the Hawking Radiation of a black hole stated in Kelvins is…))

The singularities are not unstable; therefore, uncontrolled
evaporation is not possible. In addition, there is no extemporaneous
matter near the singularity that would cause it to give off radiation
or heat.

((Or – he’s taken a slice of the Earth about 1.2 miles wide at the
equator from pole to pole down to the center of the Earth and
compressed it into a singularity. And his machine has two of them, GE
has a larger unit (C206) and there are multiple machines of each model
(C204 & C206). ))

A singularity about the size of an electron would only require the
mass of a large mountain. The singularities inside the C204 are much
small than that. And no, I didn’t make them.

((If his society doesn’t space travel – then they are gobbling up the Earth to make their singularities.))

You know… E = MC squared can be written to solve for mass too.


Posted by Don Berg on 03-13-2001 04:44 PM

John Titor, would you consider having your departure from

this time period be video taped for Art Bell? What would

you expect to be seen during that event from the outside

perspective? I remember that Art wanted to do this when

MadMan Markham was going to attempt time travel, so I

would expect Art would be interested. Please email and fax

Art about this proposal if you accept.


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-13-2001 05:01 PM

Smile

Dear Don,

He is planning on having someone video tape his departure.

What it will look like:

((Pamela: 1.What exactly would an observer see as they saw you arriving in this

time? and exactly what would they see as you departed? would you just appear

suddenly or slowly? would you look like a heat mirage for awhile? any

light effects? or hazy misty shimmering distortion?

Time travel_0- The observation of time travelers “appearing”
suddenly in a world line do not happen very often. There are two cases
and two points of view to consider. In the first case, the time machine
does not move as it goes from one world line to another and then
returns. The people watching on the original world linewould wave good
bye and watch as the machine is turned on.
There would be a static discharge and the air would appear to “ripple”
as if it were getting denser. Then, it would stop and the machine will
have appeared to have gone no where. If the machine doesn’t move its
position from world line to world line, the observer would not see it
disappear at all. In the second case, if the machine is moved, it would
disappear from the viewpoint of the observer and return in a different
location based on where it was moved and turned on from the destination
world line. In that case, the rippling seems to dissolve the machine
and it disappears. If that happens while you are watching it leave and
you expect it to return, you know it was moved or had a serious
malfunction. It is actually quite dangerous to get too close to a
distortion unit as it enters or leaves a world line. It vents radiation
and has a very strong localized gravity field. Personally, I worry
about that a great deal.))

sincerely,

pamela

[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-13-2001 at 05:14 PM]


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-13-2001 10:20 PM

Actually John,

You really do not have to answer my questions. I saw the computer
on a webpage after I asked that question. I was under the assumption
that IBM only had larger computers back then at that time. I do not
think any other questions I asked are even that relevant. I was also
under the assumption that space travel would come first, now I have my
doubts, and as one person put it:

Space is big. I saw some of the other webpages also.

Time is big. I will be thinking about all of this more in the summer, too much to do right now.

Well, certainly I wonder what humans will be doing in the future as
to the wisdom that may be needed with certain aspects of technological
breakthroughs. I really wonder if humankind has the wisdom in some of
these pursuits.

I really wonder.

Here’s hoping we did not step on your toes too much.


Posted by Raxamon Bathory on 03-14-2001 02:05 AM

Exclamation

Good evening to all of you, and John. I wont start this off by
displaying whether I fully beleive you or not, other than I’d love to
beleive you, perhaps even love the fact that I’d love to beleive you,
but not whether I concretely do, or not.

I am not very good grammatically, or even at organizing my thoughts
in a cohesive list of things, so please bear with me as I struggle to
manipulate an unweildly and cumbersome form of communication to the
best of my ability. First and formost I am inquisitive about religious
beleif systems you seem to make many references to a obviously Male
Dominated religious system, perhaps even the religion I loathe so much,
known as Christianity. Being that you claim to be from 2036, you must
forgive my arrogance but I will assume for you to be a representative
of people in that time, and that worldline. Am I, a faithfull
Witchcraft Practicing Neopagan to beleive that Christianity is still
the dominant form of religion in whats left of a post-catacalysmic
United States? And that mankind is still aspiring towards a rather
unbalanced religion, responsible for alot of the sorrow, misery,
toture, death, and narrow mindedness of this worldlines past, and in
some ways present, and none actively seek reunification with the old
ways, seeking to come closer to the bosom of earth based religion? Or
is it that Neopaganism is such a minority in your time and worldline
that you have yet to mention it in any form? I am sorry to sound rather
bitter, but with regards to most of christianity and its followers, all
I have seen and experienced is narrow mindedness, hatred, and
malevolent intent towards anything remotely different from themselves
(Holy War is a good example, Salem Witch trials is another, and down
here in the deep south you can find it anywhere simply by walking into
a southern baptist church on sunday wearing a pentagram and wearing
black). If neopaganism is not a viable and accepted religion or
tolerated much amongst the christian counterparts in your communities,
I should think I know where I’ll be aiming my guns when, and if such a
war arrives. It is my deep seated beleif that if all religions dont
wake up and unify and realize all religious (and spiritual) beleif
leads to the same sources, there may well be uprisings from pagans (I
should think after so many centuries of hatred we’re quite fed up by
now, and its showing in the Black Metal musical underground movement
occuring presently in Norway, and some of europe in which angry fans
are quite litterally burning centruies old catholic churches to the
ground sometimes with followers inside).

I wont leave anything aside in saying I’m a Gen X individual, only
difference instead of not caring, I’m angry, Not only am I angry, I’m
rather overjoyed to hear the possibility of Mutually Assured
Destruction for all mankind, because for the most part, most people
dont deserve the life given to them, I’ll be cheering from the
sidelines when the bombs start dropping, waiting for an opportunity for
an anarchistic environment wherein I could easily inact revenge upon
Governmental officials, and Religious Zealots with deadly force.

However, the image you produce of mankind drawing inward upon
itself, and becoming….more wholeistic in a sense, caring more about
the community as a whole, and the wellbeing of the mass body, than the
greed of the self I must admit is a heartening one, perhaps a step
towards spiritual enlightenment, for all parties, in wich Christian,
Pagans, Muslims, Buddhists and the like can all sit down and break
bread with each other and be as brothers. If such is the case I would
indeed think, even through the hardships, I’d be more than willing to
live through that. Furthermore the possibility for daily bloodshed from
water raiders and the like would thrill me, a more earth based, rather
than economy, or rather Capitalistic based life would seem more than an
enjoyable experience.

Personally many seem to think of the fact of millions of dying as a
bad thing, I dont. I think getting rid of the mass populace would be a
wonderfull thing, and rest assured if it happens, I’ll be doing my part
to weed out the morons that slipped through the cracks of devastation
with the point of a gun, of that you have my oath.

At any rate, I have a favor to ask of you, if you dont mind. You
stated earlier, you would post this information up on the net in your
worldline when you arrived back at your destination (or rather as close
as you can get to your original worldline). I have two children who I
should hope will be smart enough to live through the devastation
(perhaps though it would however be a kinder gesture that they did not
however, considering possibility of nuclear winter, fallout, mutatuion,
cancer, morons freely toting guns etc). Please do me a favor and look
up if you can Celeste Electra Watson, and Damon Caine Watson, and tell
them their father loves them deeply, and wishes them the best in all
that they acheive, and that I wish the light grace and love of the Lord
and Lady to shine upon them always and in all that they do. I have no
message for myself, as in truth its not me, and even if it was, I
should be 57 by this time, and possibly A. Dead or B. a doddering old
fool. And also how would the other me with a different timeline know to
even look myself up. which means only that the message would never get
to me. Which is why I ask you the favor of directly looking up my
children if they still live and telling them such.

On another note, out of curiosity, say one turned on a tesla coil
nearby the machine you use to travel, emitting the emp dreaded by
anything with transistors, and then attempted to utilize the time
machine? is it sheilded against the effects of EMP or would you then be
sitting, staring at a now useless peice of machinery stuck in a time
period you were unfamiliar with? Furthermore, also electromagneticism I
should think would be slightly different from our time to yours,
considering massive worldwide global thermonuclear war would destroy
most power grids *snicker* in your time period, do other
electromagnetic feilds such as those produced from surrounding
powerlines, and such in any way hamper the proper utilization of the
machine? or make it more difficult to take accurate “snapshots” so that
you remain “stuck to the world” ?

Also on a further note…considering you’ll never actually get back
to your own worldline, why go back? I dunno bout you, but I’d say FuX0R
that, and not care anymore and slide further and further back in time
(or forward) as far as I possibly could, expecting cumulative
divergance from my point of origin, seeking out and exploring the many
possibilities of the multiverse. I should think a world where hitler
won would be on the side of the amount of divergance I’m talking about,
or a World Where the Egyptian Empire was never beaten by the persians
and Alexander the Great, thusly resulting in a superpower of the same
might of Rome by the time of cleopatra’s reign (or lack of reign, lol
we are talking massive divergance here are we not?) and why settle for
the efforts of petty human civilization? go back, keep going back,
Millions of years, grab up specimens of the triassic era, then have fun
hopping back into the future with your specimens then gleefully set
loose say, hell a pack of raptors onto the populace of newyork? then
laugh as you warp off to another point in time, in another world, where
any possibility could be reality. (only thing I’d be really worried
about is hopping into a world where the russians did not back down from
the cuban missile crisis, under the Kennedy administration). After all
who is gonna stop you? the multiverse is now your playground, and who
cares about your time period and their problems, as you said others
would step through from other worldlines to take your place in your
concurrent worldline, perhaps one of them will decide to go back with
the machine so they get what they want, and you get a free ride on one
of the greatest adventures I could imagine.

I dunno, but thats what I’d do, I mean you just took a mission
where in essence quite simply there is NO return, so why give a flip
about the issues of humans, your now above all that with the multiverse
being your playground.

Anyways thats just a few ideas and questions and whatnot I figured
I’d toss your way. Sounds like fun were it real, and if it isn’t ****
man write a book. I’d pay just to read it LOL


Posted by John Titor on 03-14-2001 08:12 AM

Departure Video for Art Bell

((John Titor, would you consider having your departure from

this time period be video taped for Art Bell? What would

you expect to be seen during that event from the outside

perspective? I remember that Art wanted to do this when

MadMan Markham was going to attempt time travel, so I

would expect Art would be interested. Please email and fax

Art about this proposal if you accept. ))

Earlier in the thread I had said I would be willing to videotape my
departure and Pamela copied a much earlier post describing it. There
are a few technical and logistical problems but I do plan to have it
done. (i.e. the videotape recording has static and interference if it’s
too close to the unit.) At this point, the videotape would be for pure
entertainment value. It won’t prove one way or another if I’m a time
traveler but I feel you deserve just a tad of bread and circuses.

When I approached my grandfather in 1975 it took me quite a while
to convince him I was who I said I was. He said something I’ve never
forgotten and I’ve heard some of you allude to it also. After looking
at the unit he turned to me and said, “Either you’ve escaped from an
insane asylum or you’re a time traveler. As the weeks went on, it
occurred to me that both were just as threatening and dangerous to him
and I’m not sure he ever decided which one was worse.

Based on my own experiences on the web and a few comments some of
you have made, I suspect Art is growing weary of people claiming to be
time travelers for the same reason. As we have discussed, there is
really no way to prove it and I would imagine Art is tired of putting
himself at risk by entertaining the idea. He does have a responsibility
to his listeners and I respect that. I suppose it goes back to the old
question you’ve all asked yourselves. What is proof of time travel?


Posted by Joe Section on 03-14-2001 08:59 AM

John Titor,

I am confused by one of your actions. Why is it NOT ok to give us
information about our near future in detail, but it IS ok to take back
detailed emails and totally modify that time line?

I would like to know the next AOL on this time line, not another


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-14-2001 09:23 AM

Well what a way to play the crowd John. But what are you truly trying to say?

Often times you have hidden meanings in your statements. And I know
that this time is no acceptation. Why are you now emphasizing trying to
say something about proving to us if you are real or not?

As a way out perhaps?

That video of your departure, are you afraid that it will be proven fraudulent?

And you just want to spare people the disappointment?

Well if my guesses are correct, I think we found something we agree on.
We both wouldn’t like to see people suckered into believing you as a
fraud.

-Javier C.


Posted by John Titor on 03-14-2001 10:09 AM

((Why is it NOT ok to give us information about our near future in
detail, but it IS ok to take back detailed emails and totally modify
that time line?))

I’m not saying anything in your messages. You are. Are you
suggesting I edit your emails? Are you unable to weigh the consequences
of your opportunity and I am now responsible for what you might say to
yourself? Now that you have the chance to put your own morals to the
test do you feel you’re incapable of living up to your own standards?

Is it wrong to say one thing and not something else? If you feel you
should tell yourself to buy a certain stock than I suppose you are
willing to take the risk that “your” advice doesn’t prove wrong in the
next few days.

What ever I might do, I would consider the fact that someday you will have to address this question again as an entire society.

J.C. Why would I offer to make the video if I thought it would
“expose” me? If it makes you feel better, I doubt it will change your
mind anyway but it will give you something to talk about when I’m gone.
I think that’s the greatest gift I could give you.


Posted by Joe Section on 03-14-2001 10:48 AM

John T,

It is not against my morals to give myself a financial edge with
some information from the future, but it does seem to be against your
morals as you won’t give any of us a stock tip or any specific
information from the future.

Why would you allow all kinds of information to make it’s way back
in time, yet give no information on this time line? The exchage of
information would not be possible without your help.

I am sure if you asked the future me, he would give permission to give the current me some useful information

>>I’m not saying anything in your messages. You are. Are you
suggesting I edit your emails? Are you unable to weigh the consequences
of your opportunity and I am now responsible for what you might say to
yourself? Now that you have the chance to put your own morals to the
test do you feel you’re incapable of living up to your own
standards?<<


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-14-2001 10:57 AM

Greatest gift for me? How do you know what the greatest gift for me is? I’d take it you didn’t mean just me when you said that.


Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-14-2001 10:57 AM

Wink

I am not going to be sending an e-mail to myself in 1998 because I
am sticking to my belief that since I did not receive an e-mail from
myself in 1998, then it never happened.

I would, however, like to receive an e-mail message from myself in
the future. I would now how I would be able to prove to myself that it
was legit.

Have fun, all, and I look forward to seeing your departure, John.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-14-2001 11:19 AM

John,

I know that you don’t understand…which is sad. Its the Hawking
Radiation that you can’t overcome. This radiation is seperate from any
other radiation given off by extemporaneous matter falling into the
singularity. It is part of the description of a singularity per se
absent any other matter. A singularity emits Hawking Radiation.

A simple “E=Mc^2″ isn’t the answer here. You have to form the
singularity for your machine to work and that takes mass – real, not
virtual mass. You have to get the mass for the singularity from
somewhere and if you can’t or don’t travel in space (to grab the mass
from somewhere other than Earth) then you have to be gobbling up the
planet itself.

The truly faulty part of your description of your device involves
the Hawking Radiation. You can’t overcome it and you can’t ignore it.
Its not the size of the singularity that matters – its solely the mass
involved that determines the temperature of the radiation.

400 kelvin or 100 degrees C emitted as Hawking Radiation from the
singularity requires a mass of 3 * 10^20 kg. Lert’s assume that the
mass of the singularity is “about the mass of a large mountain”. Let’s
say that the mass of the singularity is 1/1,000,000th (5.98*10^18
kg)the mass of the Earth. The Hawking Radiation temperature around your
singularity will be approximately 20,000 degrees kelvin. The surface
temperature of the sun is about 5,600 degrees kelvin. That’s a sunburn
that you won’t forget for a while.

So, the reparte has been fun. But your device, as described, simply won’t work.

Its too bad that this has occurred. People want to believe in the
future and future technology but get confused by bad science. As I’ve
said before, it doesn’t particularly bother me that you don’t really
have a time machine. Its fun to ” jus’ ‘spose” it was true. The problem
comes when people really are convinced that its true based on bad
science. In any case, there’s plenty of evidence available for people
to check on their own so they can make informed decisions and learn
what the true state of the science is. Where we are in physics today is
truly exciting without making it up.

20,000 degrees…ouch, ouch, ouch!


Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-14-2001 11:20 AM

Smile

John, I just want to clarify my last post: I am not looking forward
to your leaving in the sense that I want you to go, I meant it that I
am looking forward to seeing your departure from an observational
perspective. This has been an enjoyable, educational, and
thought-provoking thread.

[Edited by David R Ferguson on 03-14-2001 at 11:41 AM]


Posted by John Titor on 03-14-2001 11:55 AM

((I know that you don’t understand…which is sad.))

Perhaps you are just having a hard time making yourself clear? I will
admit you are a little out of my ballpark but I do understand what you
are referring to.

((It’s the Hawking Radiation that you can’t overcome. This radiation is
separate from any other radiation given off by extemporaneous matter
falling into the singularity. It is part of the description of a
singularity per se absent any other matter. A singularity emits Hawking
Radiation.))

Yes, that is true. If you firmly believe that Hawking radiation
cannot be controlled or goes on even without the presence of virtual
particles forever until the singularity explodes than you are correct.

((A simple “E=Mc^2″ isn’t the answer here.))

You asked where the mass comes from. I simply pointed out that mass
and energy are interchangeable in the same equation. One of my Stanford
pals tells me there is a running gag about the chances a VW Beetle
spontaneously appearing inside the accelerator. It could only come from
the transfer of energy to mass.

((You have to form the singularity for your machine to work and that takes mass – real, not virtual mass.))

That is incorrect.

((The truly faulty part of your description of your device involves
the Hawking Radiation. You can’t overcome it and you can’t ignore it.
Its not the size of the singularity that matters – its solely the mass
involved that determines the temperature of the radiation.))

You seem to be quite upset and I understand your argument. I do
however think it is important to gather the facts and probabilities
before expelling emotional energy on them. Please keep in mind that I
have not shared all the technical details of the machine with you. So
an easy out would be for me to just make something up.

However, and as I’m sure you are aware, Stephen Hawking admits that
his own equations support the “possibility” that microsingularities may
not totally disappear as they evaporate in a sea of virtual particles
and in fact may leave behind a very stable naked singularity. I’m sure
you can look that up. I suppose the difficult part is believing that
we’ve taken advantage of it, not that it’s impossible.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-14-2001 11:58 AM

My.

Back to my reality.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-14-2001 12:47 PM

Inherently, freedom from responsibility, is not evidenced in this Universe, this is why humans are so small.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-14-2001 01:32 PM

Darby, I simply do not have time to get into details right now -
but, if you take some time to do some internet searches you will find
that not only is is POSSIBLE to create a microsingularity, it is
possibly to do so NOW with a linear accellerator. In fact, there was an
article recently (about 5-6 months ago I think, which is why I can’t
remember the exact source right now) that stated there is a distinct
probability of it happening.

I THINK if you do a search on the discovery channel, or discovery magazine, you should find this information yourself.


Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-14-2001 08:49 PM

Question

speaking of time, i am on page 18 and have spent hours
contemplating, reading, going to links etc. Facinating stuff. Great
Discussion.

I do have a question or two, and please forgive me if they were addressed and I have not reached them yet.

In the years leading to the civil war in the US and ww3, when
searches are being conducted in homes, what is being searched for
specifically? I can assume weapons, but that seems too simple.

Also, John, can you elaborate on recognizing who the enemy will be
domestically? You had stated sometime back in the thread that it would
be those who had the most to lose..(paraphrasing) I may be taking this
out of context, but maybe not.

I am on the fence post, but intrigued by this topic. I cannot
obviously say you are a TT, but that is not the issue for me. I need no
proof. At the least, this discussion has been a laymans guide to
understanding Time Travel theory. At most, you are “visiting”. Either
way, Thanks :-)


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 11:41 AM

Who’s going to remember this thread in the future?

Have you made a poster about something like “I am from 2036″ to jog your memory?

If these events come to pass, have you made plans about what you will do?

No need to answer me, but in a couple of years, no one may remember this thread, due to life events of the yous or you.

I find the events mentioned as incredible, I also find that most people
could look forward and describe certain events that might take place in
the future. These possibilities have always been with us.

I, myself, and I have a lot of meetings with myself, self, and I am
having another meeting with myself, dictate that the 50 me-s that are
all having meetings with myself may get confused from time to time.
This leaves 50 or more me-s in every worldline with more me-s showing
up possibly all the time.

With all of you doing all the same, then these parallel worlds are all busy with all the you-s and me-s.

We all only take up one space on the gameboard still in the world.

Further thoughts on all of these meetings may be forthcoming, soon I hope.

In the near future, I know what I have to do, due to obligations of
all the me-s that had meetings with all the other me-s, I guess.

Well, that leaves all of the me-s tied up at the moment.

Anyone else feel this way?


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 11:48 AM

If it seems that I may be howling at the Moon, Ah~~~~~~Ow, would you might think of it as a form of March Madness?

Afterall, all of the me-s holding all of these me-s meetings may
have nothing to do, if not howling at the Moon, leaving the other me-s
to say, what a pity, that some of the me-s are howling at the Moon. I
also have to assume that all of the other world-lines are having quite
a time also with this.

I can not decide when I had the time to do all of this, though.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 12:03 PM

Also, one could write a paper describing this action as a Class,
perhaps even putting it in a computer, with a programming language to
describe this Class. Making a Object of the Class and referencing it,
would instansiate this Class. This would give the computer a Busy Class
Object that describes the methods, events, and properties of the Busy
Class Act.

I must be a Busy Class Object Act.

Is this part of the Future events?

Fitting at this time, I must include a Prayer:

Now, I lay me down to sleep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep.

And if I should die, before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 12:15 PM

I leave to go into the Future, moment by moment, step, by step.

What awaits me there?

There was another forum where a topic was created. Oxuma, a Brailizan, came up with this: (Give credit where credit is due).

What has someone said to you that was stupid at some time in your life?

Some of the replies given back by people who responded could be made into a sort of conversation that would go like this:

Space is big.

The idea is good, but the forum is not.

There’s grass on the lawn.

Is that all there is to talk about?

The seashore is where the sea and the shore meet.

If I taught you everything I know, you still would not know anything.

Can someone go out and get me a monkey sandwich?

The winner was given some sort of symbolic prize: The Golden Grass Award.

And the winner, was: There’s grass on the lawn.

I leave you to your thoughts.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-15-2001 01:17 PM

John,

Honestly, I’m not upset about any of this…and the only emotion
involved for me is joy. This is fun! It really is. And the energy
expelled (other than the Hawking Radiation <poke> is intellectual. Back to the didactic…

I realize that you haven’t given “all of the technical details” of the
device. If it (the device) exists, the details aren’t yours to give in
any case. The details of the device, as intellectual property, belongs
to GE and its shareholders (of which I am one). The details that you
have posted publicly may actually be in violation of copyright and
patent law relative to the rights of GE in 2001. Did the Board of
Directors of today’s GE authorize you to publicly post their technical
drawings? (Did GE in 2036 for that matter give similar authorization?)
The reason that I ask this question is that we don’t know that GE
isn’t, in fact, working on this device as we speak. The technical
drawing that you have posted, if it reflects a reality, has some
implications that you may not have taken into consideration. You see a
time machine. I see a very powerful weapons system – an x-ray emitter
with directional control. It’s there in the drawing.

X-rays will be emitted if matter is pumped into the device (which you
say isn’t happening) and the engineers are concerned about where to
vent the x-rays – a mismatch. The drawing indicates in Detail #5 “X-Ray
Venting Zone”. It details x-rays being focused and vented
directionally. It has applications as a weapons system and today’s DOD
& GE would not want any details of the system publicized.


Posted by John Titor on 03-15-2001 02:11 PM

EMMETT:

I too enjoy these conversations.

((I realize that you haven’t given “all of the technical details” of the device.))

Actually, I’m hoping the cut-a-way drawing from the manual will be available to you very soon.

((If it (the device) exists, the details aren’t yours to give in any case.))

…smiling… So let me get this straight, John please prove you’re a time traveler but don’t show us any copyrighted material?

((The details that you have posted publicly may actually be in
violation of copyright and patent law relative to the rights of GE in
2001.))

No, I am not breaking any of “my” laws but I suppose that’s
something else you and your worldline will have to deal with when time
travel comes.

((The reason that I ask this question is that we don’t know that GE isn’t, in fact, working on this device as we speak.))

They might be now.

((You see a time machine. I see a very powerful weapons system – an
x-ray emitter with directional control. It’s there in the drawing.))

Yes I suppose that is one thing you could do with it. I could also
cut my hand off with a power saw or heat up a crowd of people with a
microwave. However, I believe Teller already came up with an X-ray
laser that destroys itself after going off.

((X-rays will be emitted if matter is pumped into the device (which
you say isn’t happening) and the engineers are concerned about where to
vent the x-rays – a mismatch.))

Actually, I thought we were focusing on the degree of radiation and
temperature. I don’t believe I ever said it didn’t give off radiation.
Yes, the device does give off x-rays.

((The drawing indicates in Detail #5 “X-Ray Venting Zone”. It
details x-rays being focused and vented directionally. It has
applications as a weapons system and today’s DOD & GE would not
want any details of the system publicized.))

As you said, it’s interesting that I see a time machine and you see
a weapon. Maybe it’s a sign of the “times”. However, it is a good
point. If the Chinese or Russians thought you had one of these what do
you think they would do?

Again, maybe you should ask yourself if you’re sure you want me to
prove I’m a time traveler. Maybe that’s what makes a time traveler
“evil” in that he would be willing to share everything with you. If
that were true, does J.C. have a good point after all?


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 03-15-2001 02:30 PM

John – This has been fascinating.

John – IF you (or other TTs), were to lose – a way to get back -
would there be a rescue team? Your story would not go over really well
here in 2000, if you were in need of assistance – probably lock you up
with the other time travelers. No, I’m sure of it. Though I understand
you have family. Are there interesting stories of TTs who have had to
wing it through tough missions? What would you do. Get a job? Freelance
engineering?

Another thing, if you were to take back a carload of shopping items, would they make it?

Sounds like your heading back soon. Did I hear that correct?

Does the “you” in the other time line, have to “absorb” you back? How do you keep from having two “yous”, back home?

Can you e-mail us from the future and tell us how we’re doing there? No, guess not.

[Edited by Craig Cuthbert on 03-15-2001 at 02:51 PM]


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-15-2001 04:24 PM

Darby,

you are so funny.

“The details of the device, as intellectual property, belongs to GE
and its shareholders (of which I am one). The details that you have
posted publicly may actually be in violation of copyright and patent
law relative to the rights of GE in 2001. Did the Board of Directors of
today’s GE authorize you to publicly post their technical drawings?
(Did GE in 2036 for that matter give similar authorization?) The reason
that I ask this question is that we don’t know that GE isn’t, in fact,
working on this device as we speak. The technical drawing that you have
..”

If John’s device is real .it belongs to another world altogether.
another GE, therefore it would violate no known copy right laws here.or
patent laws here. infact with a 2.5 divergence how do you know the
patent numbers or the device would be the same? besides as of now the
patent doesnt even exist here. technically it would not be THIS GE’s
pictures. It would not be THIS GE’s device. it belongs to another world
line. since it hasnt been invented yet how would you say he got the
pictures?? Now THAT would be an interesting case indeed. would they
have to prove him to be a time traveler? Is there known laws at this
time that states this as a criminal offense to share technology from
other world lines? what if it is NOT an offense in John’s world?

The Burden of proof would fall on YOU, not on John.

…..Wouldnt want THAT case! Would any lawyer actually TAKE that case??? heheh

hmmm…noticed Doc’s board is down again…

-pamela

[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-15-2001 at 04:51 PM]


Posted by Lola Montez on 03-15-2001 08:47 PM

Just to change the subject for a minute; doesn’t it seem strange
that this board has been hit so much? I checked and most don’t get over
500 or so. (this one over 19,000!!!)This has had more than any other.
The only other ones that come close are two discussions about c2c
guests. What do you think of that, if anything?

Lola


Posted by John Titor on 03-15-2001 09:33 PM

((If John’s device is real .it belongs to another world altogether.
another GE, therefore it would violate no known copy right laws here.or
patent laws here.))

Any government document can not be copyrighted. I could also argue
that the manual “could” be from a future where it has become public
domain but then again, it would mean proving I am a time traveler.


Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-15-2001 09:41 PM

Cool

LOLA: Hi, I agree that it is amazing how many views have been done
on this discussion. Well, maybe not. It is a topic that does not itself
generate tons of controversy it seems, but as evidenced by the many
exchanges, it can get heated. I wish I had been here for the whole
discussion instead of reading up.

No matter if John is a real TT or not. He started and kept up with a
wonderful and informative discussion. In a way I will be a little sad
when this thread stops altogether. It was truly the best thread I have
read in a long *time*. I am not a PhD, but I did get a good laymans
view on the theories surrounding Time Travel. It has been an interest
for as long as I remember.

Question: Anyone else acutely conscious of the word *time* in daily speech? I am now. Just my focus I guess.

To All who Participated:

Thanks for the great read! Everyone. There are many well thought out parties on this sys.

Rick: You really DoD Intel?


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-15-2001 10:31 PM

John,

So what do you have to say about what you started here? Have you no
idea that some of these people are following you like the Pie Pipper?

I don’t know about you, but I call that taking advantage of buying into
people’s fascination with Time Travel, using that as leverage for
perhaps your “Secret Agenda.”

Wherever you go in 3 weeks John, you’ll find someone with enough
guts to stand up to people like you, and oppose your exploitation.
Remember ME!

-Javier C.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 10:57 PM

I still do not see how anyone can be from a future when that has not happened as far as I am concerned yet.

No doubt the answer is here in this thread.

I will have to go over it again.

For a moment, I was thinking that a microsinglularity might just
eat energy, and mass just gets in the way, (it’s not needed), making a
microsinglularity a kind of energy generator that can move mass with
its energy field, (skirting around its edge horizon event).

I have to look that up, again.

If so, then building this thing may not be all that difficult, except for a few engineering problems.

Should of listened to the Prof in Thermodynamics, afterall he wrote the answers for the test on the blackboard.

At the time, I guess I was interested in something else, I could tell you what, but I’ll keep it to myself for now.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-15-2001 11:14 PM

Oh, I see you invented a new machine here. What do you call this thing?

I call it a ‘Time Travel’ machine.

Well, what do you hope it does when you turn it on?

I hope it doesn’t blow up the entire Solar System.

Interesting.

Well , I think it be more interesting if humans waited until we can take the whole entire Universe along.

Well, what do you mean?

Well, if we had antimatter, and could blow up the whole entire Universe, we could call it, “The Big Bang”.


Posted by Al Ryder on 03-15-2001 11:17 PM

Do you have a Timex Sinclair in your collection ??


Posted by Jim Houlahan on 03-16-2001 12:22 AM

Hi John,

You’ve mentioned (and it makes sense that) computers get much
better by your time. Considering the vast difference between that
1975-vintage IBM 5100 you’ve picked up and the computer I have sitting
on my desk, I can’t imagine what computers will be like in 2036. Are
they even still called “computers”? Are you carrying a computing device
from your time? Have you had to use our ancient technology for all this
posting? I think I’d like to use my 1978 TRS-80 Model 1 again for
nostalgia’s sake, but 10 minutes of that and I’d have to stop from
frustration. How are you coping with our “stone-knives and bear-skins”
technology? That’s a Star Trek reference. Have you watched Star Trek?

What can you tell us about future computing technology without
conflicting with your “temporal prime directive”? We could guess some
things based on Moore’s Law concerning storage, speed, etc. It would be
nice for computer-geeks like me to hear some specifics though -
especially about form, function and interface.

Thanks for spending time giving us all great stuff to think about!


Posted by Jay Richards on 03-16-2001 12:36 AM

John, you never addressed my question posted several days ago. Would you address it?

Also, I noticed a post from you on a different thread where you
said something to the effect that everything that can or could have
ever happened has happened, and thus there’s an infinite number of
realities.

If there were an infinite number of realities, then there would
necessarily arise a reality that somehow causes there to be no other
realities. In fact, an infinite number of such realities would have to
arise that cause there to be no other realities.

It’d also necessarily give rise to a reality that somehow causes
there to be only one single reality. In fact, it would necessarily give
rise to an infinite number of such realities that somehow cause there
to be only one reality.

It’d also necessarily give rise to a reality that somehow causes
there to no realities at all. In fact, it would necessarily give rise
to an infinite number of such realities that somehow cause there to be
no realities at all.

One might desire to argue that such realities could arise in the
future, from our perspective, and we simply haven’t encountered the
effects of that yet but we might in our future. But if that where the
case, then there would necessarily arise an infinite number of
realities that somehow causes there to have never been any other
reality from any perspective.

Etc.

There seems to be a bit of a problem with any sort of “infinite
reality” concept (or infinite Universes, for that matter), doesn’t
there?

So furthermore, if there’s a limit to the quantity of realities (or
Universes, for that matter), which logic clearly dictates that there
must be, what is the limiting factor?

Is it the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin? I don’t think so. There can be only one.


Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-16-2001 06:31 AM

Arrow

AL: The Timex Sinclair…I had one. I was 10 and it was incredible!
At that time I remember getting the expansion pack for the RAM, it came
stock with 2k i think. All Basic code on hot keys. Thanks, never
thought anyone else used one. Seems to me the Sinclair was as useless
as the Altair though. (that was b4 my start in comps.)

JOHN: I agree with Jim. I to am interested in your thoughts on the
future of computers and their interface etc. Any new types of periferal
devices?

Also,if the WTO protesters in Seattle had been at the time of the
future civil war, would they be at all similar to the victors of the
war?

And 1 more thing, I know you have commented about your puzzlement at
questions regarding Bill Gates. Well, Bill Gates has an interesting
story in how he became the wealthiest man (monetarily) on earth.
Obvious, however if what you suggest of the future is true, I see Mr.
Gates as a becoming a pinata for the amusement of those opposed to his
iconical representation of wealth. Hmmm. Being that his company has
been (arguably unfairly) chased by anti-trust issues..does he become a
financial force behind the Constitutional defenders?

Just wonderin’


Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-16-2001 07:04 AM

Sounds like the computers of the future will be much like the kind
found in the Monty Python movie” Brazil” with their ancient typewriter
keyboards and those hilarious screen magnifiers. Can anyone tell me
what a “Pie Pipper” is?


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-16-2001 07:09 AM

Phil: “Rick: You really DoD Intel? “

My background is in intel. Communications, electronics,
intelligence. Currently I work in the computer security field. I work
in a national reserch facility. I keep my hands in intelligence -
though no longer professionally. Once you’re a part of that, you never
really leave it.

I am a very patriotic person. I joined the military when I was
younger because of patriotism, not for college, not for the fun of it,
and certainly not because I HAD to do it. I did it because I believe in
the Constitution of the United States.

At the same time – I believe, apparently like John, that our
society, and indeed our government, has taken a turn for the worst.
See… we the people, ARE the government. When a society’s morals break
down, the government isn’t far behind. We’ve got this “entity” called
“government” now, that has grown massively in power, while losing all
common sense. The truth is a non-existent entity can’t HAVE common
sense. It can only have bureacratic ‘thoughts’ – the collective
thoughts, and actions of a group of people controllig the purse
strings, controlling everything, even down the people of the country.

The problem with this is – people like me still exist and probably
always will. We sit within a system that we view as corrupt, and
believe we can change it within the system itself. We try, hitting
brick wall after brick wall.

I still believe that our greatest acheivements are yet to come -
and yet, a nawing feeling in the pit of my stomach has been telling me
that something is going to happen, and soon. I’ve felt this for about
5-6 years now. I can not put my finger on it, but, it all comes back to
your question… Intelligence.

We watch foreign governments and wonder what they will do next,
even predict what they will do next. We see things like Mad Cow disease
- and more recently a suddenl virile outbreak of hoof and mouth
disease. It didn’t hit just one farm, it hit most of England at the
same time. I believe – along with others, that this was a biological
attack (what better way to get away with murdering millions of people
without getting caught? You reduce their food supplies, and they die
slowly. You’re never caught because no one knows where you released the
disease).

Sitting here, reading this forum – and seeing what someone else saw
- that there were 19K hits or more makes me wonder about the future.
John may or may not be “for real” – but I will reserve my final
judgement for the upcoming video – even so, he has sparked an
intelligence, well thoughtout discussion on the part of each and
everyone writing here. We all are going to come away with a heightened
sense of our own reality, mortality and perhaps even our own future.

If John has been accurate on even a small portion of his future
predictions (which by the way, he has made several, you simply have to
carefully read the notes here) then my own thoughts follow along on the
civil war, and even nuclear war. MY family will have a fallout shelter
within a few months.

I already am a ‘survivalist’. My web site has been online for years
and contains a lot of information about nuclear war, disasters, storms,
earth changes… you name it, it’s there. If anyone wants the URL,
write me privately (Not sure if I can post it here). In the mean time -
I personally will be keeping my eyes on the intel side of things. Many
others will be too.


Posted by John Titor on 03-16-2001 07:55 AM

To my knowledge, there are no other sites where these pictures can
be seen and is stable. A few of them have not been posted before. I
suspect they will generate more questions which I will try to address.

John

http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=get_album&ID_Topic=2&ID_Community=MyTimeMachine


Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-16-2001 08:28 AM

Smile

Mel:

I believe you are referencing a comment made by Javier a few posts
earlier, and I believe “Pie Pipper” was just misspelled…I believe he
meant “The Pied Piper,” the legendary character and exterminator from
the German fairy tale of the same name who first led rats out of a
village by playing his magic pipe. Later he led all the children of the
village away when the town folk refused to pay him for ridding their
village of the rat infestation.


Posted by Bob Marz on 03-16-2001 09:10 AM

No No No. The Pied Piper was a mere facsimile of our future Lord,
the Pie Pipper. A poseur. An interloper. All hail and bow to the Lord
of the Future! The Pie Pipper. Mothers shalt bake the pies, even shalt
they include the apple, the strawberry-rhubarb and the chocolate silk.
Baker’s Square shalt become places of worship. And the pies shall be
the symbol we shalt follow. Heretics and infidels who shalt mock and
ridicule the Pie Pipper shall be cast into a cherry pit.

I (vaguely) remember a book by Joe Haldeman where one of the characters
says, “With all these infinite moments, the future must get pretty
crowded, eh?”

That time traveller answered, “You can’t crowd infinity!”


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-16-2001 09:34 AM

We’re going to die.

At least while you are here, John, have you visited some of the people’s leader, at Disneyland, “Mickey Mouse”?

Who’s the leader of the land, whos made for you and me?

M–i–c–k–e–y, M-o-u-s-e,

Mickey Mouse, Mickey Mouse

Forever will he lead us to the end.

Who’s the leader of the land, whos made for you and me?

M–i–c–, k–e–y, M-o-u-s-e.


Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-16-2001 09:37 AM

Thumbs up

MEL: I think what John actually said was that typewriters are in use
in the future because it requires no electricity. Makes sense to me.
Consider what a waste it is to use a computer (electric) to type a
single note that will be simply thrown away after it is read….hmmm

As for the “Pie Pipper”, I am not sure what is meant except perhaps
it is really the Pied Piper, a fictional character that led rats out of
a european town by use of a flute?

RICK: I identify closely with all you stated above.

“I keep my hands in intelligence – though no longer professionally. Once you’re a part of that, you never really leave it.”

I believe that. I have done skip tracing for an attorney and am
glad I developed those skills. Helps me now in searching for truth and
reality. I knew a fella who claimed to be retired CIA. One night we had
a couple drinks..well I did, he had more than a few. Anyway, he
proceded to tell me a lot of really intense stuff and some less intense
but still interesting as far as discussion. About a year later some
things he talked about were coming to light in media and the net….he
had been retired for several years. What was really sad in his case was
that he was obviously an intelligent man, but he was so burnt out
mentally and physically, and very aggressive.

“At the same time – I believe, apparently like John, that our
society, and indeed our government, has taken a turn for the worst.
See… we the people, ARE the government. When a society’s morals break
down, the government isn’t far behind. We’ve got this “entity” called
“government” now, that has grown massively in power, while losing all
common sense. The truth is a non-existent entity can’t HAVE common
sense. It can only have bureacratic ‘thoughts’”

I agree with that statement as well, but I see a further influence
in this. Media attempts to entertain instead of inform and so skews the
focus of life in our country. Seems to me that a properly managed info
show is entertaining. Hmmm, Art may have some far out people on
sometimes, but he does inform > entertain.

“a nawing feeling in the pit of my stomach has been telling me that
something is going to happen, and soon. I’ve felt this for about 5-6
years now. I can not put my finger on it,”

For a long time I have interpreted a feeling that I am supposed to
DO something (maybe better prepare for eventualities), but as of yet do
not know what for sure. I too sense a shift somehow and there is at
times a feeling of massive change on the horizon. I have learned to
embrace change as good though. I have stagnated in my personal life
before and even the downside to change can be welcome for everything
seems to balance in the end result.

“We see things like Mad Cow disease”

Me too. I posted an opinion here on the bbs at
Predictions>Terrorist Attack in US. I would like you opinion on this
over there if you could be so kind. :-)

“John may or may not be “for real”… he has sparked an
intelligence, well thoughtout discussion on the part of each and
everyone writing here. We all are going to come away with a heightened
sense of our own reality, mortality and perhaps even our own future.”

I could not have said it better.

“If John has been accurate on even a small portion of his future
predictions (which by the way, he has made several, you simply have to
carefully read the notes here) then my own thoughts follow along on the
civil war, and even nuclear war. MY family will have a fallout shelter
within a few months. “

At the least John seems to develop plausible, nay…probable
analysis. I have this sometimes annoying habit of catching things based
on the way they are phrased and I too caught several cue phrases that
suggest predictions. I am not so fortunate as to have a shelter. I live
35 miles from downtown LA in a suburb. I would be atomized in a
surprise attack. I plan to abandon the southland for someplce else if
imminent attack occurs. I know a place that is likely not targetted for
its non usefulness in a strategic strike. I plan to survive. Afterall,
that would be a change and tragicaly facinating.

Also Rick, in playing catch up in the posts two days ago, I did come across your link, just have to go check it out further. :-)

JOHN: That link you provided does indeed show pictures that were
not on Doc’s page. Actually its better, Doc’s page has that annoying
Comet Mouse thing that stalls my browser. It is interesting to note,
for me anyway, that you use “archive” as a task label. I have used that
myself over the years, but it is not a common phrase. Is it a label you
use because of research?


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-16-2001 02:24 PM

((If John’s device is real .it belongs to another world altogether.
another GE, therefore it would violate no known copy right laws here.or
patent laws here.))

(((Any government document can not be copyrighted. I could also argue
that the manual “could” be from a future where it has become public
domain but then again, it would mean proving I am a time traveler)))

John,

I like the way the thread is going here.

I brought up the patent/copyright ideas because time travel does
pose some interesting threats to intellectual property rights. We could
argue that the future GE has no problem with the release of
intellectual property into the public domain in 2036 and that they have
no connection with our timeline. However it could still impact the
present GE. It’s an interesting area to explore.

How do the two Boards of Directors protect their company(s) and their
shareholders? For the doubters, again, let’s “jus’ ‘spose” that the
research is ongoing today. It will not be cheap even if underwritten by
the government. Shareholders have a right to expect a return on their
investment and that includes protecting the company from disclosure of
“secret” documents. John has released post-R&D materials. They are
details of a working model. But their release is at a time while the
R&D is in process. GE would not want potential competitors
(Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Westinghouse, etc.) to have access to any
such material.

What, if any, standing does a potential plaintiff have and how do
they assert their rights? Where do they assert their rights (in what
time and what court of law)?

John, I still have my doubts about your machine based on the
science – but there’s always the chance that I’m wrong. So, I’m not
changing-up on you but posing some questions for you and everyone else
to consider. If we view the two worldlines as separate nations that
have contact with each other and to some extent affect each other, then
the political-legal implications have some validity. How do we resolve
these issues as we move forward?

BTW – Government documents actually can be and are copyrighted.
Here’s one example. The “California Building Standards” portion of the
California Code of Regulations (Title 24) is copyrighted. This not only
a government document, but it’s also the law of the State of California
(go figure).

Taken from: http://www.oal.ca.gov

“Why is Title 24 (the California Building Standards) not included as part of this CCR Website?

Title 24 of the California Code of Regulations, known as California
Building Standards, contains copyrighted materials under the ownership
of several model code publishers and cannot be provided here. The
eleven parts of Title 24 that comprise California’s Building Standards
are available for review at depository libraries, or for purchase in
paper format from the copyright holders…”

When private companies are contracted by the government to do research
there are contractual agreements between the parties as to which, if
any, items discovered, written, produced, etc. are the property of the
government and which are the property of the private company


Posted by Lola Montez on 03-16-2001 02:31 PM


I find Rick’s attitute supportable as well. I think the youth are
indeed ready to rumble. They are an angry and aggressive group to a
large degree. It probably hasn’t helped to watch the love and peace
generation turn into the biggest, most hypocritical sell outs of all
time. As long as members of the 60′s generation take a yoga class once
in a while they feel free to consume and pollute without a backward
glance at the ideals they once held. (I am describing a good number of
my friends. And, God help me, maybe myself as well) It must look
obvious to the kids now that had we paid our ideals more than lip
service the United States might be in better shape. It must make them
bitter and also instill a good measure of hopelessness. My nephew is in
a band that travels internationally and he comments on how the European
youth do not have this hostility so present in all of the US cities he
plays. So many of us are insulated in our little realities we just
don’t feel those currents.

One comment on infinite realities. Infinity is something we can’t wrap
our brains around. We just don’t know what it means. We dismiss
infinite realities as an impossible situation because it is as yet
beyond the scope of the human brain. Mathematicians work on it as a
“problem to solve”. Mathematically, finite is as impossible as
infinite. Go figure!

Lola


Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-16-2001 03:14 PM

Smile

DARBY: Indeed it is interesting you bring up the possible problems
of the R&D phase of a project being affected by post R&D
documents. One thing you overlooked is that while GE is in direct
competition (in some areas)with the other companies you list, I cannot
recall a single project that was soley developed by a single contractor
in recent time. Even various projects for NASA are Boeing/Lockheed
products if I am not mistaken.

For Example: The B2 Bomber is a Northrop creation, they are Prime
contractor….with sub-contracted systems developed in partnership with
Lockhead and Boeing and scads of smaller companies as suppliers to
these larger systems.

What I am suggesting is that while GE may be the Prime Contractor for
the C204, it is unlikely they manufacture the entire unit in house.
Certainly most of the research will encompass GE solely, but Lockheed
is the only one I can think of that can come close to producing useable
products *almost* by themsleves through skunk works. My assertion here
as it relates to your question is that even if these docs ‘from’ 2036
are genuine, the impact is unlikely to alter anythink based on
copyrighted status, for many companies will have had a hand in the
process.

Besides, being that this is a separate world line from John’s, the
point is moot. At worst the development of the C204 is accellerated. No
problem there for me. Also, maybe in John’s world line a man introduced
documents in 2001 that enabled the development of TT by 2034…hmmm

LOLA: Hypocrisy, that is what you described in relation to many 60′s
folk that sold out for the cash. I do not remember the 60′s very
well…..I was not alive yet. :-)


Posted by John Titor on 03-16-2001 05:28 PM

((BTW – Government documents actually can be and are copyrighted.
Here’s one example. The “California Building Standards” portion of the
California Code of Regulations (Title 24) is copyrighted. This not only
a government document, but it’s also the law of the State of California
(go figure).))

My fault. It’s Federal documents.

“”Federal documents and publications are not copyrighted, and therefore are considered to be in the Public Domain.””

http://www.benedict.com/basic/public/public.htm

Courtesy of your web.


Posted by John Wade on 03-16-2001 08:21 PM

Wink

I didn’t have time to read through all of John Titor’s

statements. I do find it interesting that a high technology person from the near future who is into the dynamics of

moving objects through space and time doesn’t even know the correct date for the Wright Brothers first motor powered

heavier than air aircraft flight which is 1903. He said 1910 which
is way off. Its only the most important date in the history of aviation
and flight other than 1969, the date

for Neil Armstrong’s touch down on the moon. The 1903 date is in all the encyclopedias and history of aviation books.

To get the date wrong, and so totally wrong, to me is absolute proof that this person is a fraud. John


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-16-2001 10:47 PM

I do not know what the 60′s folks sold out of. Since I was around
then, you had two choices, either go to Vietnam or go to college. Take
your pick, you had no other. What I see out of the young generation is
more time for the future to take hold since I lived through very
turbulent times. I wonder how really mad the young folks would be if
they were drafted, or well, go to college. Seems younger people we
tried to make the world better for, do not appreciate it.

How about they do something better, before they find out that life doesn’t have to be nice!


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-16-2001 11:02 PM

Exactly, some enlisted because they knew otherwise they would be
drafted. Excuse us if we decide to change our minds again and decide
that drafting people would solve some problems in this country.
Probably not, they are still convinced that the cure is college.

Certainly Norway or Denmark did not, they rescinded their
Constitution for a couple of months last year or the year before
because of problems I guess, then re-instituted it again. That has not
happened in the US yet.


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-17-2001 01:07 AM

John, Got up this morning and checked the web sites and where you posted your new pictures yesterday is this message:

“Sorry, MSN Web Communities is temporarily unavailable while we update our service.

Our improved site will be up and running again as soon as possible.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and encourage you to try back later.

Thank you! “

hmmm….Is there NO WHERE safe???? hhehehehe

what a coincidence…huh?

good news: Doc got his board back up and working…again.

[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-17-2001 at 01:16 AM]


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-17-2001 01:26 AM

John,

I just checked the site again because I couldnt beleive it was down.
you better check it…some of your pictures are gone and they have a
little box with a red X in it……………………just like Doc’s
board had.

wow…that IS weird.

hmmm….oh well…Iam sure it will be fixed soon.

when you click on the pictures that are still there you get this message:

“The server is temporarily unavailable.

Sorry, the server is maxed out now. Please try again later when the pressure lets up.”

Nothing like being there at the right time and right place huh?? heheeh well, got to go…

[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-17-2001 at 01:32 AM]


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-17-2001 01:38 AM

hahahahah…went back again before I logged off and all the pictures are back up again.

well…I guess they were just updating their systems.


Posted by Andrew Hubbard on 03-17-2001 03:55 AM

1) How big is your time machine?

2) Is it possible that this world line ends at a different time to yours?

3) Does the bible code fortell any events that happen between now and 2036?

4) Is it possible to have a war between two different worldlines? for instance, mine and yours?

5) Couldn’t you be the person single handedly responsible for not
saving the man who finds the cure for cancer, or the person who finds
out how to filter the sea water of nuclear polution, by not
giving us advice on survival? There has been a lot more people who have
done great deeds for makind than people that have nearly destroyed it.

6) How fast is the average connection to the internet in the future? is it all broadband?


Posted by John Titor on 03-17-2001 05:23 AM

((heavier than air aircraft flight which is 1903. He said 1910 which
is way off. Its only the most important date in the history of aviation
and flight other than 1969, the date))

I suppose its impossible to defend every possible combintation of
what people want to see. I don’t believe I said anything about the date
for the first flight. All I did was pick a moment in history.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 11:40 AM

Dear John,

Well, it had to have a ‘Dear John’ reply sometime.

Simply putting us in this multiple world-lines ‘theory’ to us is not
known. Therefore, I can only relate to how the me in this worldline
thinks about this multiple world-lines.

I am the boss of myself here, if anything, then the other mes in
other world-lines that act worse than the me in this world-line do not
have a chance. They can complain about it all they want, but since I am
the boss here of me in this world-line, then I simply imply that I am
killing off (those mes are actually killing themselves) those other
world-lines where the me is worse, simply the me here will not put up
with it. Then the me here is creating new world-lines where the mes
bosses all think that we edge slowly towards a coherent whole before
most of the mes ‘goodly-mes’ die, leaving the dead mes in the other
morally bad worldlines to not have any choice in the say of it ( and
they should now know to repent). Now, this is about as much sense as
this multiple world-lines multiple realities means to me, here in this
me worldline, and if no one including me can understand this new
theory, than I have acheived my objective, understanding that the me in
this world-line is still not sure that all this is happening at any
given moment of time. This is the way to the ‘Source’ and all of the
world-line mes can fight all we want to, but it will not do all of the
infinite mes any good, I guess.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 12:04 PM

I will now try to refine the previous post.

Since in the energy flux of the mes, we are all blinking in and out of
existence at the energy level of existence. Since most humans are not
aware of this sub, sub, sub-atomic energy level, where we all form into
a sorta one energy flux, the infinite mes are always having meetings
for a brief energy moment of all mes. Therefore, information of all of
the mes can change world-lines at those moments of blinking in and the
blinking out of existence of all the worldlines. This may lead to
different part of mes exchanging with the exact same me that left this
previous one world-line. The reason that most of the time this will not
occur is because the information is retained by the me in the worldline
that briefly left for this microscopic energy meet of all the mes, and
ususally the same me that left one particular world-line will still
usually be the same me that comes back to the same worldline. This is
why we would all try to fight if meeting for the other mes know that
this is going on also, and most of the time they cannot interfere with
the good mes in the good worldlines and are left to travel back to
their other worldlines where they take it out on those worldlines.

Thus all of the mes can never be sure that part of some of the mes
just did not happen to change minutely even if just for a moment. This
all goes on continually, as a way of interaction of all mes in all
world-lines.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 12:16 PM

Oh.

Dissertion of Reality

It implies that the Universe and everything in the Universe of all
universes in the superverse is nothing more than an form of energy.
That the mass you imply that you see is nothing more at the sub, sub,
sub, atomic level than energy, given form to appear to make it more
appealing to us as a reality. This was dicussed in books in the mid
80′s and I doubt if you will find anything about this subject on the
Internet. Dealings about reality.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 12:34 PM

Also, since everything everywhere is energy, this has allowed
communication between these different energy ‘states’ and has allowed
the creation of self ‘consciousness’ or self ‘awareness’ by the
constant filtering action of the now energy ‘states’ left to determine
how these energy ‘states’ dealt with determining the best way to
develop these concepts and all concepts in all dimensions of all time.
I guess one could call this the “All”.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 12:47 PM

Now if no one is getting tired of this discussion. I will leave with
the final thoughts and you can have all of your own thoughts.

Through the energy ‘states’ all meeting at all times, it is left
to these moments of meetings to determine the most appropriate ways of
getting to the “All-knowing” God figure we subscribe to. This does not
imply that evil does not have its share of these moments, but simply in
the end of the “All” if there is an end, then the figure of “God” has
already won, and should evil still have its moments than it has been a
bad decision on their parts of these energy ‘meetings’ of information.

Well, something like that.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 01:00 PM

This implies the “soul” as being a self-healer, that may or may not correct itself, on the journey to the “All-knowing”.

This implies that the journey can perhaps be as long and as knowing
as it allows itself to be and that we are left with a “Wonderful God”
and the “All” is of good design.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 01:24 PM

Not to ‘hog’ this thread, for I am busy, very busy.

<b> I do not see the need for bomb shelters. Did I not state that it may do you no good.</b>

The fact that underground water sources, that exist, may be at least be
partly shielded from such a blatant exchange of radioactive fallout,
including the lead in it and other parts that may have to be filtered
out, may leave a source of water, but that would depend on where you
set up camp, when the stupidness ends if the radioactive event should
happen.

I leave you with your own thoughts about this.

Next:

Petersen Guide to Wild Berries.

Petersen Guide to Mammals on the North American Continent.

Petersen Guide to Birds of the North American Continent.

etc, etc, the end.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 02:58 PM

Conclusion of the “Perfect Symmetry of All”.

As an example:

In Einstein’s Equation there are four possible ‘states’ of reality.

These four would be:

+E = +(MC^2)

-E = +(MC^2)

+E = -(MC^2)

-E = -(MC^2)

The two middle results are of an imaginery numbering system.

The signs are not minus, but negative.

The two middle equations cancel out, forming a “nonexistence”. The other two equations form “existence”.

E = MC^2

-E = -(MC^2).

Both exist.

Now we must venture in to the imaginery worlds of existence.

I leave you to your own thoughts.

As Einstein stated “God does not play dice with the Universe”.

To do other, may lead to irrational and implausible ‘states’ for existence, that can not ever be as been defined.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 03:05 PM

Oh, I beg for your pardon with all of this existence.

It is all contained in the Chocolate Sandwich Cremes filled cookies
or in a slice of Apple Pie or with a scoop of Ice Cream of your choice.

This leaves anyone to deal with the anti-dimensions. We all
conclude that dealing with anti-dimensions may be a waste of time, for
we break down the “set” of mathematics (existence) to suit our own
purposals.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 03:16 PM

Oh, I concluded with a new word “purposals”. Its a combination of
“purpose” and “proposals”. I just did not know that I did that, but now
I do.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 03:54 PM

Therefore, there is “infinite world-lines where morals equal zero”
and a “anti infinite world-lines where morals equal zero”, which we do
not use in the reality we subscribe to; and the two imaginary existence
that does no good or evil to prove.

Therefore, there are more “All of yous” in existence, that can be
proved mathematically, for to define “Mathematics”, you have to reduce
every equation for its proof to zero equals zero. Equations must pass
that test or you have no “Mathematics”. It would be reduced to
absurtium.

I beg for your pardon with all of the yous in all of existence.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 04:09 PM

Yous are left free, free, free, free, to receive, receive, receive, receive with all of “This”.

You have permission to receive.

Yous may put yours “Evil Eyes” along with yours “anti-Evil Eyes”
and yours “Imaginery Evil Eyes” along with yours “anti Imaginery Evil
Eyes” to all of “This”.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-17-2001 04:21 PM

There is then the possibility of “surround protection” that protects
these clumps of energy, although I suppose, that if allowed to break
down, that can happen also.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-17-2001 05:28 PM

John,

Away the political-legal palaver and back to science for a bit…

A few of our posts back in reply to my comment, “A simple E=Mc^2 is not
the answer…you need real, not virtual mass” to form the singularity”
you said “Not True” or close thereto.

You’re still missing it, John, as we talk about singularities, Hawking Radiation and General Relativity.

The universe that you described, that is, one where mass is
accelerated to light speed and forms a singularity doesn’t exist. If
that were so you have some really bad problems:

1. As you accelerated to light speed in your machine you and your machine formed a black hole

2. From your perspective as you accelerated to light speed every
other object in the universe formed a black hole due to your relative
velocities

Of course neither event occurred. The problem is the comic book
view of General Relativity and the definition of mass in E=Mc^2.

The word “mass” has two distinct and very different definitions:

Mr = relativistic mass

Mo = invariant mass (rest mass)

Invariant mass is independent of v velocity.

You are stating your singularity forms as a result of Mr = E/c^2…The formula is correct. The statement is not.

The definition of rest mass is Mo = sqrt (E^2/c^4 – p^2/c^2)

p=momentum! Momentum…motion…kinetic energy! Its not there in E=Mc^2.

The comic book view that General Relativity somehow suggests that a
if a body is accelerated to light speed that it will form a singularity
is based on the formula “2GM/c^2”. That is, if the body is squeezed
small enough by acceleration its radius will be smaller than the
Schwarzschild radius surrounding it…it falls inside of the event
horizon. This comes from very early interpretations of General
relativity which ignored momentum and angular momentum…it was a static
solution. Einstein himself stated that it applied to kinetic energy –
not rest mass. There are many places where this can be verified.
American Journal of Physics, 55, 739 (1987) which quotes from a 1907
interview with Dr. Einstein; “Out of My Later Years”, Einstein, Albert
(1950), Philosophical Library, NY, Chapter 11 (“E=Mc^2”) note: I’m
proud to possess a very nice copy of this tomb.

Your science is still very wrong, John. (And the baseball players
at Stanford should know better than to suggest that a VW would form in
the accelerator – it would be an Audi)


Posted by John Titor on 03-17-2001 06:04 PM

EMMETT:

((..where mass is accelerated to light speed and forms a singularity doesn’t exist.))

I can’t find where I said that. Could you point that for me?


Posted by Anthony Reed on 03-17-2001 06:37 PM

Hi John,

I went to see your pictures, the one is a bit dark. The red light
arc. I liked the cutaway view but, will you be posting the picture of
the key or legend that goes with the cut away view? Let us know when or
if you will, please. thank you.

A Reed.


Posted by Bob Marz on 03-17-2001 08:04 PM

John: You didn’t say “..where mass is accelerated to light speed and
forms a singularity…” but you did chide Emmitt a few pages back
saying “E=MCsquared can be solved for mass too.”

[Edited by Bob Marz on 03-17-2001 at 08:07 PM]


Posted by John Titor on 03-17-2001 08:31 PM

((You didn’t say “..where mass is accelerated to light speed and
forms a singularity…” but you did chide Emmitt a few pages back
saying “E=MCsquared can be solved for mass too.”))

The speed of light squred is a constant number used to represent
the variation between energy and mass. It does not imply that
acceleration is required to change or represent the other.


Posted by Michael E. Hendrickson on 03-17-2001 08:36 PM

Hey, Cattoir, enough of your “cybernoise”. (How’s that for a
neologism?) Get thee to an abattoir!,( metaphorically speaking, of
course.) MH

[Edited by Michael E. Hendrickson on 03-17-2001 at 08:38 PM]


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-17-2001 11:21 PM

John,

The accelleration to light speed is implied in your reference to
virtual mass. Virtual particles travel at light speed. I tried to give
you an out there but you insisted that the mass was virtual.

OK…here goes:

John was born sometime between 1954 and 1956. He attended a west
coast university, UC Davis, UC Berkeley or Stanford. He has an IQ of
about 120 but was never a physical science major. His major was either
cultural anthropology or general sociology. He may have dropped out in
his senior year but his expected year of graduation was between 1975
and 1977. He took, as an elective, cosmology, introduction to astronomy
or both. He did not take any upper division physical science. Neither
of his parents graduated from a university but managed to provide a
very stable life for him.

His understanding of physics is based on 1970′s emerging physics
but he didn’t keep abreast of the advances in the field until about six
months ago. His new knowledge since that time is based on cursory
internet searches so that he can respond to inquiries. He is very
intelligent and a deceptively good debater even though his knowledge of
physics is limited and a quarter of a century out-of-date.

John, I laud your effort to have tried to take on such an onorous
task as to debate both the social issues of futurism and the scientific
debates of physics. Next time, though, bite off a small slice.

[Edited by Emmett "Darby" Darbyshire on 03-17-2001 at 11:27 PM]


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-18-2001 01:01 AM

Splendid work Emmett .

Hey John,

Took a look at your pictures of your Supposed “Time Travel Device” on the other message board.

And usually I can pick whether it’s outwardly or just an ordinary piece of technology.

(Partial Psychic remember )

And I couldn’t pick up anything, no hidden impressions, no memories,
all I could see was something just put together with no real purpose.

Well in a way I did pick up something, maybe just 2 Army soldiers.

Purpose unknown??

Btw, Where did you steal it from ?

Lately I have not had any Time Travel dreams. But visions I have. And non show you as a Time Traveler. Sorry .

-J.C.


Posted by John Titor on 03-18-2001 05:57 AM

((The accelleration to light speed is implied in your reference to
virtual mass. Virtual particles travel at light speed. I tried to give
you an out there but you insisted that the mass was virtual.))

The word implied is not a very stable platform to come up with a profile for my parents education but I applaud your attempt.

Well at least we aren’t seeing any more thermal and mass stabs in
the dark. Interesting profile but you couldn’t slide me just 10 more
points on the I.Q.?

Are you suggesting that in all cases there must be an acceleration
component in the conversion of energy to mass or mass to energy?


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-18-2001 07:37 AM

<<<Are you suggesting that in all cases there must be an
acceleration component in the conversion of energy to mass or mass to
energy? >>>

No. Just the present case.

The bigger question is why you weren’t aware of the difference
between relativistic mass (M sub-r) and invariant mass (M sub-o).
You’ve consistently misapplied relativistic mass in situations where
invarient mass is to be used. This isn’t new information…its a
century old. Its a common mistake among pop-science buffs to misapply
the terms. Michio Kaku wrote “Hyperspace” and Steven Hawking wrote “A
Brief History of Time”. These were wonderful books so far as
pop-science is concerned. They aren’t, nor are they intended to be, the
foundation for PhD level physics discussions. You’re understanding of
physics is at the level of those two books and I’m assuming that they
are heavily drawn upon by you as source material.

To continue…

John has held several jobs during the past 25 years, but hasn’t
held any one for more than about 8 years. He interviews well and has no
problem getting hired. He annoys his co-workers and especially his
supervisor. He’s a 60′s Northern California child and has a problem
with authority. He works best when he works alone. He’s taught before,
probably at the Community College level (Palomar Commuity College?) and
maybe even at the State College level (SF State?). He still lives in
the Bay area.

[Edited by Emmett "Darby" Darbyshire on 03-18-2001 at 08:11 AM]


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 08:51 AM

Smile

ok Darby,

heres my profile on John,

(guessing on some of course!)heheh

John is a 38 year old male. who has roughly around the same IQ I do and could probably pass a Mensa exam .

He is a kind and caring individual who was chosen to go on a mission
based on who he was related to and how easily he could get the person
to cooperate.and his skills obtained at his university.

He is able to work alone and under great pressure he is very calm.
although he has a great sense of responsibility and morals he will
defend himself and others when confronted to the point of taking a life
if needed. He believes strongly in peoples rights and freedoms and his
community.he cant stand lazy people who dont work.he is a good
samaritan and will not pass by the wounded man laying on the side of
the road. He feels accountable to God for his actions.

He has the basic knowledge to operate and control his machine
.although he is not a physicist he understands the basics in the way
his machine operates and can make minor repairs if needed and he
greatly exceeds in the area of mathematics.

his favorite food is oranges.and he loves to sail.and read old
magazines and books of life before the war.he likes to communicate with
other people on the internet and gets joy out of just the communicating
experience.sharing ideas and learning of history.

and his parents are just as kind and wonderful as he is.

-pamela


Posted by Bob Marz on 03-18-2001 09:19 AM

Hey, let me try this too!

Re: Pamela

Pamela is a loyal person (with dark hair) who (while having an
overly inflated opinion of Mensa) greatly admires John Titor and has
been actively involved or consulting in the Titor memoirs on the
ArtBell BBS message board, mainly on the posts concerning social
issues.

Pamela had a black and white Teddy Bear and though she’s passed
through San Rafael many times has never stopped there. She once ate
Chinese food in a small town called North Salinas, CA.

My name is Bob, I have an IQ of 60, on a good day, and I am a member of
Densa. And even I sensed there was a problem on the acceleration/mass
singularity issue.

[Edited by Bob Marz on 03-18-2001 at 09:23 AM]


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 09:28 AM

Smile

Bob-

HEHEHEHE you are funny!

sincerely,

pamela

p.s. that chinese food was good too! heheh

[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 at 10:22 AM]


Posted by Randy Empey on 03-18-2001 10:46 AM

Emmit –

Now, are you arriving at these ‘facts’ through the written word
equivalent of phrenology — or have you actually played amatuer
detective and tracked our storyteller here down?

If it is textual-phrenology, I would be interested in knowing what you’ve deduced from my words here.

If its amatuer detective work, I’m not certain how you are going to get people here to believe you.

Lets assume for a moment that all john has said is true or at least accurate to his knowledge.

They didn’t send back a physics proffessor, but a more down to
earth type guy whose experience in the field would help with survival.
Of course, he mentioned that having family in the right area was a
major factor, but — there is a number of good reasons they wouldn’t
send thier equivalent of Stephen Hawkin back here.

If you don’t know how your time machine works, you are pretty much
stuck to the game plan — less improvision, less hotwiring, more
possibility that the objectives will actually be achieved.

I’d be suspicious if John’s concept of the physics involved made much more sense than it does now.

Currently, there are two main possibilities from my POV — he is
fake and is a gifted story teller (his tale is self-supporting in it
incompleteness, a hard thing to achieve on purpose), or he is real and
definetly not a top of the line 21st century physicist.

Basically, tell us where you got your most recent profile for him
— textual-phrenology, amatuer detective work, imagination? Where?

[Edited by Randy Empey on 03-18-2001 at 10:53 AM]


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-18-2001 11:57 AM

If it helps the ‘dogma’ of this forum topic, “they” have found traces of antimatter in this Universe.

Even Enstein would know that both views of his equation is real.

+ (E) = + (MC^2)

and the anti-Universe

- (E) = – (MC^2)

Both exist.

And I might add “just as expected by proven mathematics”.

While we’re dicussing life and death, here is something playful:

Death be with us and with us all.

Ever lurking near or far.

Death may be lurking just around the corner.

Death, Death, Death.

Its a wonder we are still all alive on this Planet, maybe it should read.

Live be with us and with us all.

Ever lurking near or far.

Life may be lurking just around the corner.

Life, Life, Life.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-18-2001 02:34 PM

Hey Pamela, that profile you made for John sounds just like me too .
Except I’m not that Old, I am Anti-Time Travel, and I have a high keen
sense in picking things up that are flawed, especially when someone
claims to be from the future. Other then that, it’s just like looking
right in the mirror .


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-18-2001 04:27 PM

Randy,

Its not related to “written phrenology”. Its associated with
linguistics and statistical modelling of the use of English words in
this case. (And any detective work would definitely not be amateur
<wink>

Language, written or spoken, is broken down into regional dialects and
even temporal dialects. That is, when and where you learned to speak
and write a language will determine how you tend to use it (patterns,
word frequency, colloquialisms, idioms, “buzz words” etc.) Someone born
in the late 1920′s (my parents for instance) speaks the language
differently than I…that is: upon very close inspection a distinct
difference is seen.

You can analyze the written word of a target and make some very
reliable guesses about what, when and where they are (were). WIth a
sufficiently large volume of written words you can even determine who
the writer is (maybe). One use is to help validate newly discovered
historical documents that are associated with an historical figure: is
the document a forgery or real?

John’s use of the English is very (and I mean VERY) baby-boomer
typical. Give that a degree of confidence of 90%+. There is absolutely
nothing in his use of the English language that is atypical of someone
born in the United States between 1945-1975 (degree of confidence 99%).

[Edited by Emmett "Darby" Darbyshire on 03-18-2001 at 05:49 PM]


Posted by John Titor on 03-18-2001 05:33 PM

EMMETT:

((John’s use of the English is very (and I mean VERY) baby-boomer typical.))

I actually worked quite hard on that. It appears the physics questions
have come to a hault but at least you’re not insulting about my mother
anymore. Thanks.

((There is absolutely nothing in his use of the English language
that is atypical of someone born in the United States between 1945-1975
(degree of confidence 99%).))

Perhaps you could raise your confidence level to 100% by going from 30 to say… 100 years; maybe 1930 – 2030?

The tools you use to have that much faith in my profile must be
pretty good. I’m interested in what you compared me with. How exactly
does a person born in 1998 who traveled across worldlines from 2036 use
the English language?


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-18-2001 06:02 PM

The use of the language isn’t something you can practice so that you
can change it. The linguistic synapses were formed by the time you were
three years of age – by age 12 they were fully developed (which is why
aphasic children over the age of 11 or 12 rarely learn to talk). Much
like a polygraph, the analysis would reveal the forced use of the
language via inconsistencies. There is no such anamoly in your syntax,
frequency, idiomatic usage, etc. Northern California baby-boomer
American Standard English with a slight Depression Era southeastern
U.S. “accent” from your parents.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-18-2001 06:18 PM

The answer to the question, “How does a person born in 1998 use the
language…?” is – who knows? Those persons are three years old today
and just learning to speak. What we do know, however, is that during
the course of their life they will learn how to talk by age 12…and
the common usage of the language will be statistically different than
what we use today.

Everyone knows this instinctively. We can listen to a movie made in
the 1960′s, for instance, and there is no doubt that we are listening
to a movie made in the 60′s based on the dialogue. We also have a
pretty good chance of figuring out that the script for a recently made
60′s style movie was written in the 90′s – the words seem forced,
contrived, unnatural. The untrained person may not be able to put his
or her “finger on it”, but they can tell the difference. It’s also
possible to quantify the difference.

Your new name is John “Boomer” Titor


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 06:21 PM

Well now John, Golly! I would take that there as a compliment.oh nelly!

yes siree! by george! You studied that area and I would say you “passed with fly’in colors!” “your as smart as a whip!”

oops! excuse me not using terminology from my generation.

WHATZZZZ UPPP??? (heheheeheheh)

Gee wizz! Im so confused I almost forgot what generation I came from! what letter are we now? “X” “Y” “D”????

-pamela


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-18-2001 06:51 PM

Come now Pamela, I think you shouldn’t take John’s defeats to
personal. I mean there is a difference when you defend a friend, and
when you stand up for someone because of devotion to a cause. I’m sure
John can fight his battles just well on his own.

After all, who else here has a cheerleader on the side supporting anyone in particular?

No one, just you…

So this question is for you John, do you feel like you need to be defended?

-J.C.


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 07:01 PM

Talking

Come now Javier, I was just having fun with Darby!!

But as for my cheerleading….

Give me a “J”

Give me an “O”

Give me a “HN”

whats it spell? JOHN!!! GO JOHN GO!

heheheheh

[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 at 07:21 PM]


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-18-2001 08:30 PM

Smile

My bad Pamela, but I just call’em how I see’em .

You know, just like actions speak louder then words.

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-18-2001 at 08:34 PM]


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 08:46 PM

Good thing your not an umpire.


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 09:15 PM

John,

Darby said:”Your new name is John “Boomer” Titor.”

you might have to take this name since he COPYRIGHTED your other name! (snicker..heehehheeh.. I know you are laughing John!)

[Edited by Pamela Moore on 03-18-2001 at 09:27 PM]


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-18-2001 09:53 PM

Nah, I’ll give John something to really laugh about .

“Johnny has a girlfriend, Johnny has a girlfriend.”

I know I’m LOL, heehe

-Javier C.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-18-2001 10:10 PM

Well, hopefully the Russians do not screw up the total eclipse in
the year 2017 passing through around the center line by Cleveland,
Ohio.

In fact, what can you do at the end of March of any year?

Well, you can visit your local astronomical society and view all 110 Messier object in the sky at night.

Only time during the year around when you can do this.

Don’t worry, your eyes will adjust to the dark.

Hooray, for the dark.


Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-19-2001 07:07 AM

Red face

Although I can appreciate the study of language and the
determination of locality based on that, I would suspect that IF John
is from the future, language pattern would have changed and in some
ways not progressed too much insofar as patterns. John painted a
picture of a world in distress for many years, and indeed our US.
Looking back in my studies to WW2, there were many things that changed
and progressed, but what did not change was language…..except slang
terms.

I have not noticed too many slang terms from John, but I have
noticed some (real or not) difficultly with certain phrasing. I refer
you back to earlier in the thread when questions arose from phrases
involving ‘sell out’ type of things. I am not an expert on language,
but aspire to be so I am not saying I am correct. I am just guessing
that if John is from the future, and less focus is applied to money and
greed, as he implied, phrases implying the selling and buying of goods
as slang, would be confusing. That remains consistent.

I am all for being skeptical, but approaching the language factor is
not, to me, proof John is from our time. Conversely, it does not imply
he is from the future either. His story actually supports the idea he
is from the future when subtleties such as what I mention are look at.
Go figure, we are still at the point of maybe-maybe not.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-19-2001 07:29 AM

John Wade: To get the date wrong, and so totally wrong, to me is absolute proof that this person is a fraud. John

Actually John, that doesn’t prove anything except he got the date
wrong, and that he is human. Even historians do not remember every
single, important date in history.

For instance… can you tell me the exact date and time that the
Lucitannia was sunk? Can you tell me the exact day and time of D-Day?
Can you tell me what day Louis Pasteur came up with the “vaccination”?

I mean… think about it. You can certainly look those things up if
you’re so inclined – and answer them, BUT, do you know them RIGHT NOW,
without looking them up?

Rick


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-19-2001 07:36 AM

Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire: Darby I liked your take on John’s background. Please do mine now.

Rick


Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-19-2001 08:12 AM

Red face

I mean, this hole talk iz gettin’ perty intense, dude.

Any guesses? Where is that lingo from? Written language is
interesting, but if I were to go in the past, I would study the
language and customs. Much as one might study language and customs
before travelling abroad. Sounds like I am defending John, but I need
not do so. Here is the excerpt from Johns post on page 40:

>EMMETT:

>((John’s use of the English is very (and I mean VERY) >baby-boomer typical.))

>I actually worked quite hard on that.

John stated he worked on talking our talk. At the least, his story
is still plausible and consistent. May I urge people to quote the
phrases being used when being critical of them. Page numbers help. I am
enjoying the speculation, but linguistics in this case are also subject
to interpretation. My interpretation supports Johns assertion he is in
florida and a native of there.

Peace, Man.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-19-2001 08:13 AM

Interesting this “language” thing Darby came up with. I’m certain he
is correct in his assessment of listening to a movie made in the 1960s,
or ’50s. I know that I can personally tell you from the dialect of a
movie without having seen the video running approximately which year
the movie was made. Of course, there is a degree of inaccuracy in doing
so.

As far as dialect changes go, I’m sure that from decade to decade there
are obvious changes and some not so obvious changes. There are terms I
remember from when I was a kid that are used even now. There are things
I’ve seen in movies made before I was born, that also are in use, even
now.

I do not see that this placing someone based on their language is an exact science.

John/Pamela – Pictures. I have plenty of web space, and I expect
the site to remain online (though is has gone down on and off over the
past couple of years due to weird problems). My web site http://survival.anomalies.net and another site I assist in managing http://www.anomalies.net
are both available for the video, as well as the pictures. I have the
pictures already and will try to get them up on my site tonight – under
the heading of “Time Travel”.

If and when there is a video made available – I would be happy to
convert that into a format (or several formats) for the computer and
place it online for download. I would be more than willing to come film
it independently myself – if John wishes (besides which, I would love
to be there to see it for myself – if only to know for myself that it
is real).

So – John, you’re welcome to contact me privately and I will
personally arrange my own travel, and bring my cameras and video the
whole thing – with complete confidence that I will not reveal location,
time, date or anything else until after your departure.

About Albert Cattior… I’m wondering if Albert himself isn’t a
time traveler as well.. and is suffering some sort of time dysphasia or
something. <chuckles>

Speaking of that – John, if you have time before you go.. are there
any known mental disorders that are associated with time travel?

Lastly: Someone mentioned (Sorry, can’t remember who now, or where
I read it, but it was this forum) something about “shelters won’t be
needed”. If I understood the gist of this statement, it was meant in
the terms that if a nuclear attack becomes a reality, a shelter will be
useless.

That can not be further from the truth. I can tell you I am
accutely aware of what atomic/thermonuclear weapons are capable of
doing – and what they are NOT capable of doing. I also know that
depending on the attack and the type of weapon, not only is an attack
survivable, placing yourself and your loved ones, as well as a few
weeks worth of food in a fallout shelter will protect you from fallout
radiation.

My web site has survival information on it regarding such things, and
believe it or not, it comes from the US Government. So, even they
believe nuclear strikes are survivalable. They just do not press that
publicly, because 1) they do not want to panic people (because if the
government says you should have a shelter, conspiracy theorists
suddenly become convinced the government is trying to warn us without
warning us, it upsets natives of other nuclear powers into believing WE
will start a war – etc). 2) Doing so legitimizes the use of nuclear
weapons to everyone, thus making it more of a possibility they will be
used without a second thought to doing so. 3) It will raise the price
of land throughout the United States. Precived “safe zones” would go up
in value – especially with pre-existing shelters. I’m sure there are
other reasons I haven’t thought of, but suffice it to say that the
government DOES believe nuclear war is survivable. Just not by
everyone.

I believe it as well. I’m not one of those guys that wants to be
around for the blast. With my luck I would get blinded and blown
around, but not killed outright, leaving me blinded and crippled and
not able to fend for myself, left to die miserably. I’d prefer a
fighting chance. Give me a basement, some water and a little food and I
will make due. Don’t count the human race off as defeated the minute
the nukes start flying. We’ve been around a long time, and will
continue to be around for many more centuries.

The question is not, can or will the human race survive. The question is how WELL will they survive?

Rick

[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-19-2001 at 08:18 AM]


Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-19-2001 08:32 AM

A total eclipse in Cleveland in 2017? WOW!! Finally something our
fair city will be famous for. By the way, we put out our “Flaming
River” back in 1969 for those of you who think it is still on fire.

We better get busy writing out invitations if we only have 16 years left.


Posted by Bob Marz on 03-19-2001 09:04 AM

Darby, As brilliant as I think you are, I just can’t buy it that
your linguistic analysis is all THAT comprehensive and precise. You
have no voice inflection, no body language or handwriting patterns to
supplement the analysis. Only his printed texts. And I think a smart
person, intuitively aware of the more common giveaways, could take care
to maintain a neutral linguistic demeanor. I suspect, if you do have a
high success rate with your method, it’s because you yourself have
psychic abilities (that are being sublimated through your more mundane
rationalization). Your leftbrain is doing a wonderful job explaining
what your rightbrain is doing. The breadth of your insights suggest,
otherwise, an external source of information.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-19-2001 09:07 AM

Rick,

You haven’t submitted enough written material to use statistically.
Boomer has submitted materials all over the net – thousands and
thousands of words. Its not magic or para-psychology. Its simply
statistics. Sorry.


Posted by Randy Empey on 03-19-2001 10:20 AM

Question:

quote:Basically,
tell us where you got your most recent profile for him —
textual-phrenology, amatuer detective work, imagination? Where?



Answer:

quote:Its
not related to “written phrenology”. Its associated with linguistics
and statistical modelling of the use of English words in this case.
(And any detective work would definitely not be amateur <wink>



Of course I am leaving out a lot, but I’d like to shine the hypothetical laser pointer at these two things.

So … its not phrenology of the written word, and not amatueur
detective work, and we are led to think that it is not imagination or
non-amatueur detective work.

In fact, it is heralded as an off-shoot of modern linguistics and statistical modelling of the usage of English words.

If that is not at least simmular to textual-phrenology, I am misunderstanding things.

Which is completely possible.

But it involves statistics, which I’ve always had a superstitious disbelief in.

You have to be very carefull to qualify your results. Can you
establish a one to one relationship between certain subsets of
attributes and certain subsets of people? Not absolutely. But you may
be able to come close enough to make your 90% probable guesses — but
the amount of work that would really take would be staggering.

If you undertook it, then I salute you. But still respectfully
choose to view this as only one of many possibilities here, with no
special status.

The sample sizes involved (that I am aware of) are simply not large enough to lend the confidence levels you are implying.

It would take the analysis and comparison of billions of words from
millions of reasonably ‘representative’ individuals, and then a
relativily large number of words from the target.

At least thats my intuition, and I’ve yet to see proof or convincing evidence hinting strongly enough to the contrary.

John simply hasn’t written enough words here. Perhaps you’ve dug
through his trash and anaylyzed his snail-mail correspondence . ..
making your sample size bigger, and more representative … but would
it be big enough?

Way too many variables to play with here, even for the mythic strengths of ‘statistics’.

Language usage is mutable. Upbringing and other factors of
environment have effects. But so do conciouis decisions while
composing, the nature of the form of communication, the subject’s
emotional state at the moment, the proximity of a thesaurus, etc..

At the moment, ‘he’ could be a accidental persona who is the
results of thousands of chimpanzees in a labs across the usa, involved
in a program that posts the results from thier typing on gov. issued
typewriters onto the internet, when it seems to make sense. The timing,
and appearant ‘on topic’-ness is then just a weird coincedence.

That is just as likely as any of the profiles presented so far.

Explain why this isn’t phrenology of the written word — or diff. enough from phrenology that we should pay attention to it.

Maybe we should devote a thread to such ‘profiling’ … where gurus like yourself analyze all comers ….

—–

http://www.dictionary.com says:

quote:phre·nol·o·gy


n. Abbr. phren.

The study of the shape and protuberances of the skull, based on the
now discredited belief that they reveal character and mental capacity.


—–

How many days left here John?

If they started a ‘countdown’ would it embarrass you or feed your ego?

[Edited by Randy Empey on 03-19-2001 at 10:50 AM]


Posted by Lola Montez on 03-19-2001 11:25 AM

I thought Darby’s observations interesting. Since I read his post I
have tuned into a couple of old movies; 40′s or 50′s stuff. The
differences can be subtle but they are there. I will now be listening
for those linguistic time bubbles whenever I hear conversation or a
movie. It is especially fun listening to my nephews in their early
twenties. I agree that during crisis those sorts of changes may happen
more slowly (with less media input) but I should think John’s phrases
and slang would more resemble that of my nephew’s than my own. Also, I
don’t understand why it would have been important to study the nuances
of the time for John’s particular mission. Certainly, a turn 1900′s era
gentleman could carry on a conversation today without being suspected
of being a time traveler.

This is an interesting and educational way to view John’s claims.
Far superior to mindless bashing or searching for stock tips. I bet
John enjoys this scrutiny as well. After all, what does he have to
loose if we believe him or not. This board is hardly big time exposure.

Darby, do you mind saying what you do for a living? It seems your
background must be varied to have insight into both linguistics and
physics. How about a profile of yourself.

Lola

[Edited by Lola Montez on 03-19-2001 at 11:30 AM]


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-19-2001 11:28 AM

http://www.anomalies.net/time_traveler/

Pictures posted.


Posted by Randy Empey on 03-19-2001 11:49 AM

‘Darby’:

I’m not really saying your linguistic-phrenology, or whatever you call
it, has no validity — just that its validity is yet to field-proven
to the masses here, or at least myself.

Why don’t you share the specifics and your reasoning, as you share the results?

Where does your data come from, exactly.

What expertise do you draw upon?

Is this like Javier’s intuition — which would be perfectly fine,
as long as your honest about the source of your knowing, and don’t
expect us to believe you implicity with out a good ‘track record’.

Or is this some scientific method you’ve troubled yourself to learn
– which would also be perfectly fine, as long as you share your work,
if you expect to be believed.

Question to John:

Does this linguistic phrenology type ‘technology’ have a prominent existance (that you know of, of course) in your native time?

[Edited by Randy Empey on 03-19-2001 at 11:54 AM]


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-19-2001 01:00 PM

Red face

Here’s a couple of hyperlinks:

http://www.physics.ucsb.edu/~jpierre/strings/links.htm

http://www.treasure-troves.com/physics/about.html

Computer: Security retina scan complete.

……..

Dr. Carol Markus: Project Genesis … A Proposal to the Federation

Spock: Carol Markus

Kirk ……Yes

Dr. Carol Markus: Exactly what is Genesis? Put simply, Genesis is
life from lifelessness. It is a process whereby molecular structure is
reorganized at the subatomic level into life-generating matter of equal
mass.

……

Spock: It literally is Genesis.

Kirk: The power of creation!

……

Bones: Dear Lord, do you think we’re intelligent enough to, suppose, what if this thing was used where life already exist?

Spock: It would destroy such life in favor of its new matrix.

Bones: This new matrix! Do you have any idea what you’re saying?

Spock: I was not attempting to evaluate its moral implications,
Doctor. As a matter of cosmic history, it has always been easier to
destroy than to create.

Bones: Not any more! Now we can do both at the same time.
According to myth, the Earth was created in six days, now watch out,
here comes Genesis, we’ll do it for you in six minutes!

Spock: Really Doctor McCoy, …you must learn to govern your passions. They will be your undoing. Logic suggests….

Bones: Logic?! My God, the man’s talking about Logic, we’re talking about Universal Armageddon! You green blooded, inhuman.

Bridge to Admiral Kirk: Admiral, sensors indicate a vessel in our area, closing fast.

Kirk: What do you make of her?

Bridge: Its one of ours, Admiral, its Reliant!

Spock: Reliant?

Kirk: Try the emergency channels…….Picture Mr. Sajvek.

Kahn: Slow to one half impulse power, lets be friends.

Movie: 1982, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Kahn


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-19-2001 01:26 PM

What’d that have to do with anything? Unless you were talking about the moral implications of time travel.

Linquistic phrenology.. I think it is a crock.

Tell you what my friend, since I haven’t written enough here,
please, feel free to use my web site as your model. There are
litterally gigabytes of my writing there. Articles, news, views,
op-ed… even a biography. But, it doesn’t tell all. I suggest though,
you not read the bio if you have any propriety regarding this so-called
ability to predict where people have been in their lives using their
words as a guide.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-19-2001 01:43 PM

Lola,

Some very brief notes on my background would contain reference to a
degree in Experimental Psychology (including psycholinguistics and
neuro-physiology). Psycholinguistics is the study of the psychology of
speech – phonetics (This is Noam Chomsky’s work). Professionally the
notes would include work in the intelligence community including
de-briefing.

Phrenology, the work of the German scholar Franz Joseph Gall (very
early 19th Century), is a word that has too many negative connotations
that have little to do with Herbert Spencer’s work in evolutionary
biology. It dredges up pictures of Gestapo “scientists” seeking out
Jews based on skull and facial knots, ridges and shapes or 19th Century
English detectives “identifying” criminals by similar methods.


Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-19-2001 01:51 PM

Thumbs up

John is a White male of 38 years who may or may not be a time
traveller. He shows a well worked knowledge of Time based technology.
He claims to not be a scientist, and understands how his machine is
supposed to work.

By his own claim, he has more documentation, but chooses not to
share it. This makes sense to me, for if I were a TT, I would not give
out more than I chose to. In fact, here on the bbs, we each can simply
give just the details of what we want others to know. In subtle ways
John has given predictions and even 1 date that I came across. This
does not validate Johns status, but in the coming days to years we all
shall see.

In a nutshell, methods such as linguistic phrenology may have some
credit, but no evidence of how that ‘science’ was utilized in the ‘john
model’ has been given. That leads itself to be just as known as Johns
real status as a TT or not.

I suggest that those with the gutteral umph to do it, go back. Read
ALL of Johns statements. Put them together. Analyze what was written.
Not for Regional specificity, but for the small details that were
scattered about. If not read carefully, one might miss things stated.

Bash me if you like, but I am at a point were I sincerely HOPE John is
a TT. None of us can say yeah or nay really as a point of fact, and if
at this point John said, ” Oh, btw, I am just a fella from Little Rock
Arkansas “, can that really be absolved as true? Not really.

Fun Ain’t It?


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-19-2001 02:09 PM

Spock: Admiral, scanning an energy source on Reliant, a pattern I’ve never seen before.

Kirk’s Son, David: Its the Genesis Wave.

Kirk: What?

David: They’re on a build up to detonation.

Kirk: How soon?

David: We encoded four minutes.

Kirk: We’ll beam aboard and stop it.

David: You can’t.

Kirk: Scotty, I need warp speed in three minutes or we’re all dead!

Uhara: No response, Admiral!

Kirk: Scotty, ….. Mr. Zulu, get up out of here, best possible speed.

……..

Bones: Are you out of your Vulcan mind! No human can tolerate the radiation that’s in there!

Spock: As you are so fond of observing, I am not human.

Bones: You’re not going in there!

Spock: Perhaps, you’re right. What is Mr. Scott’s condition? …… I’m
sorry, Doctor, I have no time to discuss this logically!
……..Remember!

Movie: Star Trek II, The Wrath of Kahn


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-19-2001 05:45 PM

Anyone notice how quiet John has become in the recent days? It
happened just around the time Darby was commenting on his use of his
supposed 2036 language .

Just call’em how I see’em.

John you’ve done this Machiavellian routine so much, it’s predictable
now. Whenever anyone comments on anything you don’t know how to answer
or that might expose you, you go quiet and answer back in a few days.
And make the excuse of being busy archiving, when you do fine an answer
to it.

If that doesn’t spell fraud and opportunistic traits, then a lot of people are blind and can’t obverse the obvious.

-Javier C.


Posted by Anthony Reed on 03-19-2001 06:06 PM

Javier,

John said he would be leaving in the spring, that officially is
only 2 days away. If you were packing to go somewhere (time travel or
not) you have to get things ready don’t you?

And you are on the internet, there is no such thing as obvious.

A. Reed


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-19-2001 06:34 PM

Are you new here Anthony?

John said on March 10th, that he would be leaving in 30 days. That would make it about April 10th or 11th.

I will be leaving at around the same time, and may return in about a month or so hehe.


Posted by Kevin Spooner on 03-19-2001 06:44 PM

Arrow

And now we know why the christ-force had to return three days after
bodily death. Maybe, just maybe he came back to his apostles not owing
to some predestined miracle, but because he was getting such a heavenly
headache…

And perhaps thereafter said to them “Listen here you sqaubling
bunch of know-it-alls, you-too Judas! Stop infighting amongst each
other about who’s right, who’s wrong, what your instinct or intellect
is telling you, just get out there. You’ve got all you need now to get
on with the job.”

Or maybe the christ force said, Hey! Is not cool dude. Watzup da
matter? Gotta cold ur sumtink? Getcha out mun! Catch ya de later!

Who, and I mean, WHO really really cares.

More the point, if I was JT the TT person, I would be thinking What
the H*LL – I’ve tried but right now I just don’t care. Off to catch my
broomstick and that’s all that matters right now.

Later (dude. hehe).


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-19-2001 06:56 PM

Javier,

Did John really say that?

((John said on March 10th, that he would be leaving in 30 days. That would make it about April 10th or 11th.)))

Hey! that is MY vacation week too! we could like all have a big party or something down there!!! heheheh


Posted by Tom Young on 03-19-2001 08:41 PM

Question

Last week I was looking at the images that JT had uploaded onto MSN
and noticed a simple typo in the operations manual page showing a
diagram of the Tipler sinusoid field produced by his device where in
the diagram, item 10 (Negative Time Event Horizon) had been transposed
as item 11 in the diagram, though the item value was printed correctly
in the legend. I didn’t think anything of it until I looked at the same
page as found on Ricks site and saw that the typo was gone from the
page. I’m not trying to play pixel person or anything, but unexplained
edits to the images that have been posted do lead me to wonder what
other changes are being made. (Then again, a time machine might just
turn out to be a copywriters best friend!)


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-19-2001 09:55 PM

Bob,

Really – its a lot more mundane than that (psychic ability). The
profile is truly based on what Boomer has written and posted. Its
statistics, analysis and interpretation.

Voice stress, handwriting analysis, non-verbal communication (body
language) isn’t part of this. Those criteria are generally used for
truth testing. I don’t have any interest in directly challenging
Boomer’s veracity. He and I are having fun with a battle of wits.
Cat-and-mouse rhetoric as it were.

I’m getting ready for the next round…

Major Boomer,

What was the elapsed time (indicated on your machine’s internal chronometer) for the trip back to 1975?


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-19-2001 10:47 PM

Tom,

Good catch. We’ll make you a questioned documents tech yet.

Look even closer. Upper left hand corner legend: you can still see
the faint cut-and-paste edge outlined on the paper (not computer
cut-and-paste, literal scissors and glue cut-and-paste) and a finger
smudge where the ink ran onto the paper when the pasted section was
smoothed. Same-same for the center title – which is also warped.

Take a close look at the technical drawing. Look especially at the
left and right end perspectives. Not the same – very poor quality CAD
for a billion dollar project.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-19-2001 11:03 PM

Hey Pamela, where’s your buddy Johnny? Can’t he come out and play?

Darby is calling for him too . You go Darby.

It’s not me this time John, so you’re going to have to try a whole new
approach. With that said, I am sure we are to expect something new from
you in about a day or so .

See you real soon ,

Javier C.

P.S. Sure, where should we all take our vacation? Me, you, and John “I
wanna be a Time Traveler someday” Titor, wanna go off to?

Oh and John btw, I suggest you leave that piece of junk you made in your garage at home, cause I’ll break it if I see it . Have a nice day.


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-19-2001 11:38 PM

Tom,

actually I noticed this difference and several others you have not
mentioned when I first saw the diagrams and questioned John about it
here is his response below from an email:

“If you take another look at the pages you can see that the first
one is much smaller too and there are two punch holes at the top of the
second one.

Since I was getting complaints about the quality of the picture I
decided to use the larger ones which are a compilation of the technical
drawings in a packet attached to the unit. The cut-a-way is also a bit
different from the unit I have as it shows the interior of the
prototype.

I haven’t looked closely at all the documents and I suppose there
may be other differences too. In fact, there is another version of the
same drawing in question which has a side profile on it and it’s not in
the manual either. I would imagine that may have been one of the
updates.

#5 still says cone. I hadn’t noticed the error in numbering before
and I’ve seen others in the manual but that’s pretty typical for a
military document.

If you would, do me a favor and post this if someone else cathes
that. Actually, this is quite intesting because I suppose if it were a
fraud it would be expected to be perfect. That’s fascinating and I
hadn’t thought about it before.”

sincerely,

Pamela

Javier, Where is John? probably P.A.C.K.I.N.G.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 03:04 AM

Smile

I am not a time traveler.

Can I apply a truth table to all this discussion?

What if I said that I might be able to?

What would that prove?

Some of the people would believe it, some people would not believe it, some people would not care.

That’s about it. That’s all that is happening anytime people get together to discuss anything from the past or the future.


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-20-2001 03:25 AM


Javier,

“P.S. Sure, where should we all take our vacation? Me, you, and
John “I wanna be a Time Traveler someday” Titor, wanna go off to?”

How about the stoneage? Wanna take a ride???

hehheheheh

-pamela


Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-20-2001 06:35 AM

Oh! The misdirected rage of a 21 year old. Javier, put your efforts
into something worthwhile and you’ll go far in life. Don’t let this
time of your life be wasted smashing things.


Posted by James R.Quayle III on 03-20-2001 06:40 AM

Angry

I do not need to believe in John titor’s claims too say,Javier your
a good intelligent skeptic,But your also the type that will get left in
the dust when something big does happen,You remind me of the neighbors
who run inside here in Newport Beach when Ufo’s fly over the beach,they
run inside saying,NO ,NO I see it but it CAN”t be real!I have read all
the replies on this **** time travel post from the beginning,and at the
end ,I find you a bitter dude.In your universe view the world must be a
boring place.Sure,Time Travel is not true,Javier,now go play while me
and my friends go back in time and make sure your Mom and dad never
met,ha,ha.Skepticism is good but ,your little barbs flown over and over
on this post seems bitter,You probably have never experienced Any odd
phenomena?That is how it seems,so sad for you,open your eyes and The
Wierd will appear.Happy Trails John Titor,where ever you go,you made me
and others think,not necesarily believe ,but what a gift of
thought.Javier resign to your cubicle,horse blinded view ,how
non-unique you are Javier.


Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-20-2001 06:48 AM

Cool

just grab the shades and hop in the Chevy to “take a ride”.

Pamela: Wouldn’t you all look a tad out of place in the stone age?
Seems that trip would definately blow ones cover, but who would care.
Just a bunch of grunting hairy but naked human-like ancestors. I can
see it, a Chevy pick up, probably black or dark blue in color appears
in stone age florida…isnt it wet? NO matter, its a chevy. :-) The
only problem is there is room for 3 in that extra cab and a tight
squeeze at that.

Javier: You would be sitting behind John. That would be an interesting
development. If John is a TT, he is still human. How would you handle
that morally? Take away his toy? j/k

The stone age would be a drag I think. Unknown diseases, yuk. Might
as well be a cow and go to England. Ever thought of say….the 1920′s.
Florida would be there…and definately dry. Besides the ’20′s would be
interesting. Period cash? Who cares. Does not seem that money is all
that important in Time Travel.

Having Fun.

Phil


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 06:58 AM

Tom: Last week I was looking at the images that JT had uploaded onto MSN and noticed a simple typo in the operations

manual page showing a diagram of the Tipler sinusoid field produced by his device where in the diagram, item 10

(Negative Time Event Horizon) had been transposed as item 11 in the diagram, though the item value was printed

correctly in the legend. I didn’t think anything of it until I
looked at the same page as found on Ricks site and saw that

the typo was gone from the page. I’m not trying to play pixel
person or anything, but unexplained edits to the images

that have been posted do lead me to wonder what other changes are being made. (Then again, a time machine might

just turn out to be a copywriters best friend!)

Tom – For the record, those pictures were pulled from Doc’s site
about 3-4 weeks ago, about the time I got involved in this discussion.
I’ve had copies of them since then, and have made no modifications. Are
you telling me that you found a discrepancy between the ones I have and
some OTHER pictures? If so, please give me the URLS where you located
them.

Thanks

(Edited & added) – I just read Pamela’s comments on the photos,
and sure it is plausible that he had multiple copies of various
diagrams. She is also accurate in her statement about military
documents being full of errors. I deal with technical orders and other
such documents all the time, and they ALWAYS have misprints, typos,
misspellings and mislabeled diagrams. Regardless of how much money is
being spent on a government project, the documentation is only as good
as the cheapest tech-writer they can hire. Remember – LOWEST BIDDER!

Rick

[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 at 07:14 AM]


Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-20-2001 06:59 AM

Arrow

Hi James.

I am not defending Javier, nor am I putting him down, but your last post needs a clarification…in fairness.

You wrote to Javier:

“You probably have never experienced Any odd phenomena?”

I cannot be specific, but he has claimed to experience odd
phenomena. Some sort of Temporal condition. Impressions I think.
Whatever the case, I did not figure him to be a dry non-experiencing
figure. At times he has seemed a “tad” biggoted to time travellers.
Perhaps he will expand that for clarification.

Not a slam James, I saw an error and am pointing it out. The pages
Javier stated his beliefs and experiences were fairly early in the
thread and included his web site link that does clearly state his
mission.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 07:09 AM

John – Pamela – whoever can get John to listen…

I have offered my serivces as an independant viewer/observer of the
departure. I can and will make arrangements to fly to Florida with
video taping equipment and some camera gear. However, I need a little
lead time to get the equipment to me. Olav, the S4 Data base web master
has offered basically unlimited space on the web site, as well as
digitizing the video – making it free for folks to see.

I do not believe that making a video “for profit” is going to convince
anyone that anything occurred. Worse, turning such a video over to
anyone other than say, Art Bell himself, or independent (and skeptical)
observers is just plain silly. Anyone with their hands in the “belief”
portion of the video might not do as good a job as I might, since I am
not really on the “believing” side.

Now… I’ve not had a reply from John at this point, but if his
departure is imminent, I still require time to make arrangements for
equipment, flight, car rental etc. This would be coming out of my
pocket.

That also means I won’t be helping anyone hoax anything.

Now… John… are you going to take me up on this offer or not? If I
don’t see it first hand – I doubt a video will make it any more real.

What do the rest of you say?

Rick

[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 at 07:18 AM]


Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-20-2001 07:49 AM

Wink

I have stated on more than one occasion that I would find it very
interesting to have John’s departure recorded, and I have asked John in
this forum if he still planned on doing so. I do not believe I was ever
directly responded to.

From the basis of comments made in this thread, I view Rick as an
open-minded skeptic who would appear to have strong credibility. He has
made an offer more than once to document this event at his own expense
and I, for one, hope John takes him up on his offer.

What do you say, John? We are all awaiting your response.


Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-20-2001 07:59 AM

Red face

That John, just a few days ago stated he was going to have the video
done, but was not intending a 3rd party to be there. Indeed this raises
the eyebrow, but even if it is a hoax, it is still interesting and I am
curious what might happen in the video. I think there was talk of the
field surrounding the mechanism, that it might disrupt or corrupt the
video if taken too close in distance. I would love for Rick to be a
third party assignee for video. He has credibility.

I know that is not what you desire John, but contact Rick. He has
the means to handle this and is a skeptic. Besides, according to your
description, this world line differs from yours. No harm would come to
your family on your world line..that is IF Rick were corrupt, which I
sincerely do not think is the case. Perhaps worth considering?


Posted by Alexander A.Shpilman on 03-20-2001 09:46 AM

The history John Titor, resemblances to me a April Fools’ joke of the students.

1) The style of thinking is similar to style of thinking of the American of 1990. And plot of a film-hit:

When all people of the Earth catch illness a “cow rage”. Or such as -
what will be, if there will be overturning magnetic poles of the Earth?

2) The history of the people abounds “surprises”. But we to them
quickly get accustomed. In this history there are no surprises. There
is nothing is paradoxical new.

3) How to distinguish micro Kerr black holes from electron, proton or neutron? The difference will be in mass?

It microsingularites. How it to make macrosingularites? I think, it is necessary better to know thin structure of a matter.

4) It is necessary to distinguish a “global line” from “worldline”.
There is an analogy: many people go on the rope bridge. The bridge is
swing from a wind and movement of the people. The rope bridge is a
“global line” matters (body of the man). “Worldline” is a trajectory of
movement of the man in space on the rope bridge. Obviously, a “Global
line” from “worldline” are connected among themselves, but they differ.

If I would be TTer, I would study properties of a “global line”. I
would study, how the change of events in the past (events at my doubles
in the past), my opportunity influences to change events in the present
time.

Certainly, it is difficult. But it is possible to begin from study
of a situation of planets and stars, earthquakes and hurricanes, in
various temporary flows. Then to study the moments of occurrence of
scientific opening and moments of creation of masterpieces of art, and
their difference in various temporary flows.

In detail about time and OVERTAME look in http://www.pmicro.kz/MISC/UFL/Almanach/2n00/OVERTIMEa.htm

and http://www.pmicro.kz/MISC/UFL/Almanach/1n01/OVERTIMEa.htm


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 09:53 AM

I have a few more pictures apparently from John now, that we will
post on the anomalies site as soon as I can get in touch with my webby
guy out there in CA.

I have examined them (the pics of the machine itself) and have not
changed my opinion on the machine – it “looks” real enough from a
military/government perspective. Even the manuals appear to be what
they are perported to be.

One thing to note, which I can not remember if I mentioned before -
and I am sure no one else has at this point, is a yellow object in the
upper part of the picture of the machine in the vehicle. The yellow
device is a geiger counter. I’m familiar with THAT machine specifically
- not just gieger counters, but THAT model. I’ve used it. I carried two
of them in tactical weather gear in the 1970′s and 80′s. I also used
one of those devices extensively during my stay at the White House from
1989-1992 during training at a facility outside of DC, where we trained
for NBC (nuclear/biological/chemical) warfare. More specifically I used
them during training for “shelter management” where we each played
President and others.

Anyway, that is a real device. If you look carefully, you will see
an older “CD” or Civil Defense sticker on the side. The device is
rather old though – probably built in the mid to late 70s and was an
important piece of gear in my weather systems and shelters I took care
of in those days. It could have come from old stocks of military gear
(in 2013 or later) or it could have come from surplus store in 1999 or
2000. Not sure.

I did want to point out what it was though.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 09:59 AM

Yes, I think Rick ought to film this, but John has already said that this may not do any good.

From the book “Galaxies” by Tim Ferris, yes I know its getting old,
but then, why is anyone who deals with the structure of cosmology still
are leaning this way:

One of a number of sophisticated cosmological models that have been
constructed within the broad purview of the big-bing account of cosmic
history, this theory, proposed by J. Richard Gott III of Princeton
University, postulates the existence of not one universe but three. It
envisions that the big bang gave rise not only to our universe, where
matter predominates over antimatter and time runs forward, but a second
universe where antimatter predominates and time moves backward, as well
as a tachyon universe where everthing moves faster than the velocity of
light. Our universe and the antimatter universe are segregated in terms
of time. Both are segregated from the tachyon universe in terms of
space, since the tachyons in the first instant of creation fled beyond
the light cones of all observers in both the matter and antimatter
universes.

The Gott cosmology is a masterpiece of symmetry without being
dictatorial about it: it predicts, for instance, that there should be
traces of contamination of our universe by antimatter (as has been
verified by observation) and by tachyons (as has not). Whatever
likelihood we might care to assign to its validity, in this combination
of symmetry and imperfection the Gott model is redolent of nature’s
style.

Now are you sure that you can not communicate with another you in the antimatter universe?

Now what if this is proved. It may prove that God (she) has put you
all over the place, and in many different places for one reason, you
may have the means to destroy yourself with science of the future.

She(God) has wiped your butt all over the place already, now who won besides (God)?

We all win, maybe, this way.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 10:11 AM

God may be angry as John proposes, but still, I think it is just
humans that are doing the dirty deed, and humans are the ones that are
angry. This has nothing to do with God, so if this happens, blame the
humans, not God.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 10:19 AM

This theory leaves at least two Johns running around, and maybe a
lot of johns running around.(Alright, it a joke, johns. You are all the
other johns running around.)


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-20-2001 10:20 AM

Rick,

Good observation on the device. I’ve been looking through surplus gear sites on the web to find a similar device for sale.

The two yellow caution tapes on the device are misaligned. Sloppy workmanship.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 12:02 PM

Albert: Yes, I think Rick ought to film this, but John has already said that this may not do any good.

I am not sure I understood your piece there Albert. Are you saying that
because someone else films/video tapes the departure, we might not see
it on tape?

I’m not sure what that has to do with antimatter. If John were an
anti-matter John, he could not have come here in the first place. One
doesn’t have to meet ones-self to destroy oneself when made of
antimatter. One mere must contact ANY matter. Matter and antimatter
will obliterate one another no matter what form it is in when it
contacts.

Darby: The two yellow caution tapes on the device are misaligned. Sloppy workmanship.

Which is pretty much normal for government equipment. Doesn’t prove
anything though. I have equipment that is government gear that has
similar lables. None of them are aligned.

As far as a “good call” well, I’m not sure about that, I was just
stating what I know to be facts from personal experience. I know, for
instance that the yellow geiger counters were standard gear for fallout
shelters for military personnel in certain places. I also know that
almost NO ONE knew anything about them, how to operate, read or change
the batteries in them. I don’t even remember the type of batteries they
took but if I remember right, they were C cells (but they might have
been 6v lantern batteries too – I simply can not recall that part). I
will never forget using them though. The government cost back then was
around 900-1200 bucks. Something similar today will run you 750 or 800
commercially, but they aren’t as sturdy as the good old yellow ones
were.

I’ve been doing some careful examination of the pictures. They
simply aren’t high enough quality to be able to get details though.
<shrugs>


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 02:05 PM

I am just saying that John is the one that said that it may prove
nothing further, that the pictures will not help anyone believe him to
be a TT or not, if they do not already believe.

I would like to see the pictures, though.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 02:30 PM

Albert;

I see your point. But… it will prove it to ME. That’s what *I*
care about. Call me selfish if you like, but I could care less if
anyone else believes or not. I don’t care if you do, or Javier believes
or disbelieves.

I am trying to show 1) Either fraud or 2) John is a time traveler.

If someone goes and actually is present as a witness besides his
own family or personal friends, it won’t matter then because they can
not fake the photography, nor pull “magic tricks” – smoke and mirrors,
whatever you want to call it.

I consider myself qualified as an observer for several reasons.

First and foremost, I’m extremely interested in the outcome of this exercise.

Secondly, I’m a skeptic. For a skeptic to see something with their
own eyes, is PROOF POSITIVE to a skeptic. Whether or not YOU believe
the skeptic is up to you. If you went I might believe you. If Javier
goes, I would definately believe him. Personally, I do not trust Javier
to go without doing something to disrupt things. He has made it very
clear he has a problem – moral or otherwise, with time travelers.

Thirdly, I’m a “trained observer”. My jobs over the years, from
engineer, to teacher, to computer ‘guru’ to storm chaser more than
qualifies me to do the job of objectively observing an experiment and
giving a truthful and objective report on the subject, no matter what
the subject entails.

Fourthly, I’ve heard no one else offer their services, their own
hard earned cash or their time to do this. I have. I certainly haven’t
seen Art Bell come in the forum and post his thoughts. If he had, and
offered to be there, and perhaps do a live report, that would have been
the best thing. I don’t think he will – for several reasons. But most
importantly, it could be dangerous!

Fifthly – Danger… been there, done that. I’m afraid of heights and
don’t climb if I dont have to. I do have antenna towers in the back and
climb them. I have to. I hate and am afraid of flying. I’ve been to 42
countries. I didn’t get there on a slow boat. I’ve been shot at many
times in Central America, and also in the middle east. Nancy Reagan and
Richard Nixon have chewed my ass. I’m not afraid of anything else
(except spiders). I do not have to fly (cept to get there), I don’t
have to climb (cept perhaps to get a good video shot), I don’t have to
deal with spiders, Nancy Reagan or Richard Nixon. I DO have to get
truthful video, good pictures and even perhaps an interview if John
would consent to doing so. This I CAN DO.

Sixthly – I consider myself a decent writer. You will get a very good report.

Now… Whether you chose to believe the data that I will bring you,
is up to you – and each person will have to decide. Without knowing me
personally, none of you can be sure I’m not a government agent, I’m not
a Russian Spy or I’m not in cahoots with John.

Since I’m not any of these things, and I don’t have much else I can
show you right now to prove this, you’ll have to take my word. For now.

However, anyone that wants to know more about me is welcome to read up
on my writing, my bio and a lot of other stuff on my web site. You can
- as several people have pointed out, get a good idea of a person’s
background from their writing. It might take you some time, but, the
data is there. I’m not extremely private, and anyone that wants to find
me, can. My “secrets” are things that I’ve done for the government and
no one will get that information from me under ANY circumstances, but
the rest of my life is pretty much an open book.

Now… do you want to trust your intutition completely, your eyes and ears, me, John or this forum? You decide.

Rick

[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-20-2001 at 02:34 PM]


Posted by Pamela Moore on 03-20-2001 04:21 PM

Dear “FREE”,

Thankyou for the “jet” link. I read all of it.

yes, that was very interesting.

wasn’t sure if I could use your email address to respond back to you.

but I wanted to let you know I did read it all.

and I will keep what you said in mind.Thankyou for being concerned.

sincerely,

pamela


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-20-2001 08:22 PM

The Stoneage you said huh? Nah, I was thinking more along the lines
of Medieval Times. I always liked playing with Swords and fighting when
I was a kid.

My big brother would be the Ninja (a real ninja) and beat me up all the time. Ahh the good ole’ days .

-Javier C.

P.S. Mel and James. Excuse me for having a little fun here for a change. When do I ever? And when I do, I get hassled about it.

You don’t know me, you don’t know what I am capable of. I have
abilities and control that alot of people my age lack. Maybe once you
learn to not accept life for it’s flaws, and stand up for what’s right,
you’ll make something of your self.

And see that I was right all along .

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-20-2001 at 08:35 PM]


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 10:53 PM

Here’s what I think of John at this point.

It really does not matter if he is a TT or not, well, it might.

John thought about some things going on and with technology and he
decided that he had something to say about the future as he saw it. He
came up with a story to get people interested with what he was
thinking. That was: time travel may be possible in the future, if it
is, and other countries found out, this may not be good. He presented
it as a story to strongly interest people about what they thought about
the future, if time travel becomes a reality.

He may have a three year old and wonder what kind of world he will grow up in.

I must admit that I was not really thinking in those terms, so to
me it was a wake up call. You get going with school, life, and hear
news but it nevers just clicks with you.

The What If?

I tend to look at the world through rose colored glasses sometimes, and that becomes too relaxed.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-20-2001 11:38 PM

Here’s something I found out this year. During the Cold War or maybe
about in the ’70′s, the Russians were working on a new type of jet
engine. This engine that uses, if I remember right because its not at
the newscientist website anymore, ionized gases to control the engine.
This means that it needs no wings, no airelons, or controls. Just by
changing the ionized gas flowing around the engine, this engine is
unique. Now NASA been informed of it, and is working with it, and
Russia can build a plane, not mach speed, but for transport that uses
this type of engine. It called something like “Plasma” engine. If you
like to consider the fact that this engine may be a prototype UFO, I
guess it may also be something of a forerunner that could eventually be
used to some effect as a UFO moves. Consider that. Russians are not
dumb. At the BBC Talking Point, they had the question, just a few weeks
ago “Is Russia a Superpower?” Now responses came from around the world,
including Russians. One said that they have some bright theoretical
physics students, and they have pride in their country. The answer to
me is simple: Do they have nuclear weapons? Yes. They are still a
Superpower.


Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-21-2001 08:03 AM

The problem with being 21 is that noone ever takes you seriously. We
all know that. You should be enjoying yourself right now. You are far
too serious, intense and vindictive. You have been raggin’ on this guy
through this whole thread. I certainly don’t know if John is for real.
The one thing I do know is that this has been a great topic and that
you need to lighten up and stop trying to save us all with your “Time
Cop” role.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-21-2001 11:45 AM

Here’s another thing, well, maybe not that important.

Harpoon IV is coming out about the end of this year or so.

The Navy people play this game. I have Harpoon II and you can
download it free, I think still, at website Home of the Underdogs, I
think but not sure, its underdogs.com. Well, written by Larry Bond, a
Naval Officer of many years, it is about Naval Warfare. The database is
well worth looking at, to view for the most part, the Navies of
different nations, and type of weapons. Its the closes to having about
the best unclassified weapons of war of the modern age. The new one
being programmed by someone else will be more of a 3-D type Harpoon.
Russians weapons are usually twice the size of US weapons and if you
get hit by one, that’s about it. The US weapons usually take 2 or 3 to
sink one of their submarines or ships. In any case, Russians have more
subs than anything else right now, besides land warfare. The new
Harpoon IV will have landings of Marines on shore. I learned a great
deal about weapon systems on this planet from that computer game.

Just a thought.

That Russian engine is still a kind of jet engine. The only way it
might fly, (and I am just imagining), around is put it so it swivels.
Just dreaming at this point. Still more like a regular airplane.
Ionized gases instead of whatever jet engines use, (air?).


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-21-2001 12:25 PM

Cool

I’ll get off.

Here’s a for instance:

Russian weapons — == 200 mile blast area. Russia never built a “small” weapon in their life. The US does.

2000 miles by 3000 miles — size of the US about.

It would take 150 Russian missiles and there would be no US.

And they do not have to be accurate.

So Russia would have to change their entire philosophy.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-21-2001 01:24 PM

Albert:I’ll get off.

Here’s a for instance:

Russian weapons — == 200 mile blast area. Russia never built a “small” weapon in their life. The US does.

2000 miles by 3000 miles — size of the US about.

It would take 150 Russian missiles and there would be no US.

And they do not have to be accurate.

So Russia would have to change their entire philosophy.

Albert… what are you talking about? A “small weapon”? A “large
weapon”? There is no such thing as a “200 mile blast range”. The
fireball from the largest ever known thermonuclear weapon was less than
5 miles in diameter. The Russians are purported to have built a 350
megaton bomb at one point, of course, we do not know this for sure and
it is rumor.

Your numbers are way out of scale. I suggest you spend some time
doing some research on the subject before you quote numbers. I’ll tell
you where to start…

http://www.janes.com/

http://www.milnet.com/milnet/nukeweap/nfaq0.htm

http://sun00781.dn.net/nuke/hew/

http://www.cdi.org/issues/nukef&f/database/rusnukes.html

http://www.enviroweb.org/issues/nuketesting/nukeffct/

http://www.dnfsb.gov/

This should get you started. You will not find anywhere in any of
the data where there are 200 mile radii damage zones. Even with the
worst thing the Russians can throw at the United States there might be
a 7-10 mile damage radius around the blast zone.

In my reserch, 20 Megatons seems to be the absolute maximum any one
weapon will do. Yeah, they are bad, they are radioactive and they are
gonna do some serious, serious damage to the land and perhaps even the
planet. However, 200 bombs will not “obliterate” the United States.

However – as I JUST finished writing last night in an article, if
you’re planning on giving up now, before such a war or survival
situation comes up, please – feel free to ship me your food, and
weapons. I CERTAINLY will put them to good use.

Rick


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-21-2001 01:32 PM

Pictures of the time machine and the manual for those who have NOT yet seen them, are located at:

http://www.anomalies.net

http://survival.anomalies.net

Exact URLs are as follows:

http://www.anomalies.net/time_traveler/

http://survival.anomalies.net/time_travel.htm

I understand there are some more, that I’ve missed and they are supposed to be sent to me shortly.

Rick


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-21-2001 08:00 PM

Poor misguided Mel. You speak as if you almost knew better. Yet
still you know nothing about my life, and insist that I am what you
claim to be. Well I hate bragging about my self, but I see that it’s
necessary. Or else you’ll continue to know nothing about me, and
continue ****ing me off. So here I go…

Are you a 2nd Degree black belt in Karate? (Everyone in my family
knows how to defend themselves, tradition since I am a quarter Chinese,
my blood demands it). Were you a League Champ in High School Wrestling?
How about going through Army Basic Training? I know tough, if anything
I am far from weak and like an average 21 year old.

I am incredibly disciplined. I don’t wait another day to speak my mind and take action on things that are wrong.

Growing up in So.Cal I’ve seen death, I’ve seen terror, and I’ve
seen people taken advantage of. Maybe it’s different where you were
brought up, but these kinds of things I I want to do something about
them. So pardon, for taking a stand and wanting to do something about
the wrong things in life. You don’t see many young people doing that,
and I believe it should be encouraged, not condemned.

Thank you very much;

those were my 2 cents,

-Javier C.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-21-2001 11:04 PM

Rick,

If you have contact with Boomer please attempt to verify the
elapsed time (on his internal chronometer) for his trip from 2036 to
1975. I need that data for a calculation.

Two problems still unresolved:

Problem #1

Early on Boomer posted that the radius of effect of the time
distortion field is 12 to 15 feet (Schwarzschild Radius of 4 to 5
meters). He also said that the mass of the singularities is that of a
“small mountain”. I suggested 3*10^18/kg (1/2,000,000th the mass of the
Earth)and he did not dispute it (though it may be smaller)…

anyone see where I’m going with this?

Problem #2

There’s another problem with his diagrams on your site:

Page #5 (C204 Tipler Sinusoid…) Item #1 shows the twin singularities in line with the x-ray venting zone.

The schematic following the photos also shows the singularities in
line – and in line with the driver’s seat. It seems that the x-rays are
vented directly at the driver.

I’ll post the answer to problem #1 later. Just giving everyone else a chance to do the math.

Hint: R=2GM/c^2 (I posted this formula with little comment for Boomer last week. He didn’t pick up on its significance.)

[Edited by Emmett "Darby" Darbyshire on 03-21-2001 at 11:16 PM]


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-22-2001 12:06 AM

Rick,

I do hope that you get a chance to see Boomer off. But a video won’t
help prove the veracity of Boomer’s story. If what he says is true
you’ll only have a video fogged by x-ray emmissions (and maybe some
leukemia for yourself). If its unfogged then everything given to you to
post on your site about the device is false and misleading.

The last time I checked the physics I didn’t see an “on-off” switch for
a black hole or any other singularity. Whether his machine is on or off
the singularities continue to generate an event horizon. The
singularities are contained in the black box. I have a very good idea
of what the Schwarzchild Radius of the alleged micro-singularities
should be. The black box lies within the event horizon. How does one
photograph an object inside the event horizon from the exterior of the
event horizon (in this case the driver’s window of a Chevy pick-up)?

If there is an x-ray problem associated with his machine how is it
that his photos aren’t fogged? And, though he’s never said that he
hasn’t let anyone else come close to the machine, who took the picture
of his two hands in one of the photos?


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 12:47 AM

In my opinion, I don’t believe John, A.k.a “Boomer” expected people
to not believe him this close to his leave date of April 10th (his
window of opportunity). I’m sure he wanted everyone to believe his
story. But in-light to what Darby has shown us, and John’s
unwillingness to rebuttal. We must now see that he has forfeited his
opportunity to prove us wrong (your silence only incriminates you and
confirms that you are a fraud). Cause he him self is wrong. Somehow, I
think Darby was an unexpected variable. I’m glad you were apart of this
discussion; I take my hat off to you Darby , great job.

Just something to think about… I know that some of John’s loyal
subjects will continue to think he was for real. But I have never, nor
have I ever wished that he were a real Time Traveler. The rest of you,
shame-shame. Always answering questions for him, defending him, giving
him a way out, never really letting him do it all on his own. Always
sounded like Heaven’s Gate to me.

Until then, I think John has sung his last song. Either that, or
he’s cramming as much math, physics and logic to assist him in
answering the last questions. Last chance to make people believers aye
John?

I expect a good answer John, if you do decide to answer .
If not, that was pretty rude of you to leave without saying good-bye.
Or what kind of idiots do you take us for making an excuse like that .

-Javier C.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-22-2001 01:29 AM

Javier,

What surprises me about the believers is that they apparently never
really looked closely at what Boomer was telling them. Now, I don’t
think he’s a bad guy – I’ve enjoyed the time (there’s that word again)
we’ve spent together bantering this subject – but…

Here’s who Boomer says he is (from the totality of his posts but more specifically his early posts):

A civil war begins in the U.S. when he’s six years old (2004). By
2012, at age 14, he’s a member of a Florida vanguard revolutionary
brigade fighting the “enemy state”. He and his military assist the
former Soviet Union (Russia) with their invasion of the United States.
He said, “The enemy attacked by Russia was the forces of the government
you are under now.” He said that the conflict “will consume everyone in
the U.S. by 2012”. This will be followed by a short WWIII in 2015.

Surely some of the gentle readers have children. Lola has two
teenagers. Who else has children, spouses, loved ones who will be of
military service age between 2004 and 2012? Boomer admits to making war
on the United States and giving aid and comfort to the invading enemy
forces. Sounds like treason from our perspective. Sounds like murder if
its your children that he kills in the conflict. As Rick Donaldson
would say, we are the government – we the people. Boomer says that we
are the enemy.

So – for the supporters: do you really hope that he’s what he says that he is? Is this what you want for your children?


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 01:33 AM

Rick, I check it out later.

To me, after seeing movies of H-bombs, early pictures, I was under
the impression that a shock-wave is what goes that far or so. Pictures
I seen of old ’50′s type mushroom clouds had trees down and everything
flated by the shockwave of the blast. That’s what I’m going by.

I look it up later, I have to catch up on things I have to get done.

I been just thinking, like Emmett perhaps, doesn’t anyone see anything wrong with building, how can I put it?

I think John said essentially, although I may have to review:

An electron fed, spin controlled, (for the ergospheres), rotating microsingularity.

At one point, because I was reading some posts of John, he said
that controlling the spin of (what I thought)the microsingularity was
what kept the ergospheres in line. Controlling both ‘spins’ of the
microsingularities.

How would you ever control the spin of a subatomic particle?

All we do is blast them in the accelerators to photograph the
tracks made, because you can not even see the particles, only the
tracks that were left by the particles.

I have seen pictures, and if it were not for the track’s
photograph, there would be no picture of the particle. The particle had
already decayed, or something, that only left the tracks to be
photographed. That’s all anyone can get from blasting particles near
the speed of light. They were black and white photographs that only
showed the tracks of the particle. Someday, I have to look up those
photographs, maybe they have them at a particle accelerator website.

No, I was not on the Internet then, this was way back when I was
in my local astronomy club. Over 11 years ago. I remember those photos.
I think it was Wayne the founder of the club who brought us those
photographs. Just a sorta long white-looking track where the particle
had gone after smashing. Yes, if you saw them, …… spiraling off
after impact.


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 01:45 AM

Here’s John’s post (part of it, don’t ask me what page):

The singularities do not create Tipler cylinders they create the
same physical environment without all the mass. The same math works for
both. There are two singularities. Their mass and spin is altered in
order to adjust the size of the ergosphere and cause the event horizons
to interact and create the gravity sinusoid. I have a basic home
schooling education (k-12) and a bachelor’s degree in history.

I would like to know when humans can control the mass and spin of a singularity?


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 07:30 AM

Javier – You kill me. Haha. Basic training? You’re 21 years old and
have been through basic? But you’re not in the military? What happened
there? Typically, there is a minimum of three years of service required
after basic training. Get kicked out for your attitude?
<chuckles>

Darby: Problem #1

Early on Boomer posted that the radius of effect of the time
distortion field is 12 to 15 feet (Schwarzschild Radius of 4

to 5 meters). He also said that the mass of the singularities is
that of a “small mountain”. I suggested 3*10^18/kg

(1/2,000,000th the mass of the Earth)and he did not dispute it (though it may be smaller)…

anyone see where I’m going with this?

I see where you’re going – weight of the machine among other
things. Also – I do not believe that this is the schwarzschild radius
that he is talking about. That radius is the “blue event horizon” -
and… I hate to say this, but nothing within that radius would be seen
again. So… this is more like the theory behind tipler cylinders (read
up on that, I’m not gonna explain it here). Basically though, you do
NOT enter into the radius when traveling along a tipler cylinder.

Problem #2

There’s another problem with his diagrams on your site:

Page #5 (C204 Tipler Sinusoid…) Item #1 shows the twin singularities in line with the x-ray venting zone.

The schematic following the photos also shows the singularities in
line – and in line with the driver’s seat. It seems that

the x-rays are vented directly at the driver.

Where’s the problem? Hehehe. But, you have to note, that the
diagram is NOT TO SCALE. Also, remember that no matter what government
document you’re talking about, if it is a manual, it is GOING TO
CONTAIN INACCURACIES. The government uses “lowest bid” – remember?

About the “fogging of the film”… well, yes true, if it is film.
Video tape is magnetic. X-rays will not affect magnetic tape in this
manner – that is by fogging the video. There might be some “magenetic
domains” knocked out of place by x-radiation, however, the result would
be these little sparkles you see on the TV when you do not have a very
good (strong) signal coming in. We call it “snow”. I’m sure folks have
seen this before.

I haven’t really done any calculations on the distance of the event
horizon from the actual “surface” of a black hole – but, I know what
I’ve read states that the event horizon is actually very close to the
“surface” (if indeed it could be called a surface). Point being, we’re
talking about a ‘microsingularity’. I have my doubts as to whether it
can exist inthe first place, but a physcist friend tells me that it is
possible for such a thing and indeed, there have been discussions of
doing JUST that with a linear accelerator. The problem was that they
just weren’t sure if it would decay quickly or become something that
might envelop the earth. There was no discussion of the “weight” of
such a thing, because it is man made, and would not be a true
singularity.

I won’t dispute any calculations you have made regarding the
Schwarzchild Radius of the microsingularity, but I will say, I believe
it to be on the order of microns rather than inches or feet. Remember,
we’re talking about something the size of an electron.

By the way, *I* can tell electrons which way to spin and I’m not a
“full fledged physcist”. So I suppose it wouldn’t be that big of a
stretch to force a black hole to spin this way or that.

Albert: I probably misunderstood your post. Yes, the blast radius
is pretty big, but it isn’t 200 miles in any case. Remember a blast
wave is basically a supersonic sound wave and it will dissapate over
distance. That dissapation is based on several factors, like density of
the air, temperature, how close to the ground, etc etc. I’m sure I left
something out. In any case, a blast wave will be very strong very close
to ground zero (the point of the ground above which the bomb is
detonated). As the wave travels outward, and the distance increases,
the overpressure drops quickly. I believe it is an inverse of the
distance traveled. That basically means – as an example (and I’m not
sure this is completely accurate, but those links I gave will tell you
for sure) as the distance doubles the overpressure will be reduced by a
factor of four. (It’s too early for me to do math, and I was called
into work last night, so I’m doubly tired now).

Damage from a nuclear bomb would be devastating, but only in the
target area. That means… perhaps at distances of up to 10 miles away
there would be damage, increasingly worse as you get closer and closer
to ground Zero. But – as you get further and further away the damage is
reduced. Basically.. I have a ranch style house – I’m seven miles from
Cheynne mountain. If they hit it with a 20 megaton bomb, my house goes
bye bye. My basement, however, will remain intact. It is below ground
level and unless the fire ball touches the region below ground, then
below ground is safe, that’s been my point all along. Hence,
survivablity of nuclear attacks.

Your black and white photos of tracks of particle trails was
accomplished actually, very easily. I’ve performed those precise
experiments without the aid of an accelerator myself. The tracks
actually are drawn in a cloud of vapor – usually CO2 vapor. In fact
when I did it, I used radium from a old wrist watch, and dry ice for
the vapor. The trails were CLEARLY visible with the naked eye. When
examined under a magnifying glass (I used a microscope) I could seen
the decay as a long trail that fell into a “death spiral” as I called
it. When the particles decayed completely, the spiral ended. Of course
this occured VERY fast, and essentially, I saw only the result of the
decay, which was the track in the fog.

I did these experiments when I was 15 years old or so, in my
basement lab. I had a fully stocked chemistry/physics lab when I was a
kid.
That stopped the day I ****ed near killed everyone in the house with
clorine gas… duh… Anyway, I decided that chemistry wasn’t my bag,
and went instead into electronics and physics after that.


Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-22-2001 08:30 AM

It is obvious that you think too much of yourself. Am I supposed to
be scared? What I am saying is that you are wasting too much of your
young life getting worked up over a post like this. You will be old
soon enough and you’ll wish you did things differently.

You have mentioned that you are very mature for your age. Who are you
trying to convince, yourself? The overreactions are not a sign of
maturity. You also seem to have a propensity to want to smash things
like this time machine. Is that a sign of maturity?

The answer to all those pointless things you mentioned is, no.
Please channel your energy into things that will further your career.
Someday you’ll thank me for this.

[Edited by Mel Reckling on 03-22-2001 at 08:33 AM]


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 09:35 AM

I need to post something here… I have nothing to do with any
possible military involvement in this forum. I want folks to understand
that I am simply interested in this for the sake of science fiction,
science fact and a very strong curiosity about time travel.

John can not be reached right now. And certain other individuals
appear to have been contacted. I can’t say more, but… if anyone is
contacted by “military personnel” make sure you get names, ranks and
any other information you can from them. Give it to me. I DO have the
means to verify their existence. Now… I just put MY ass on the line
here, so if someone DOES contact you.. I wanna know right away, but if
you don’t have a name, rank, base of operations, serial number or
anything else, then they are probably not real.

Listen… if someone contacts you in email and says they are “investigating this or that” and claim to be military – ask them:

1) What branch of service?

2) What organization are you in?

3) What is your military rank and pay grade?

4) Are you a law enforcement officer?

5) Why are you contacting ME?

If you get these silly-assed answers about “National Security” or whatever – then ask them:

“What is YOUR need to know?” and end the conversation. You have
Constitutional rights, even where National Security is involved. So,
remember that. And unless and until they contact you IN PERSON and SHOW
A BADGE, ID CARD or other authorizing documentation (like, let’s say a
WARRANT) then they can’t even be bothering you if you do not invite
them to do so.

Rick


Posted by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 11:07 AM

Darby,

This stuff is for fun, remember? Traitors? Good Grief!(good grief
is probably a good example of those linguistic time frame give aways)

Lola

[Edited by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 at 11:18 AM]


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 11:26 AM

Mel,

Some things are worth fighting for. And as you can see, others are
following in. You took my wanting to smash his machine to serious.
After all, it was in a joke you probably took as serious as well. And
worked your self up to frenzy about it, and into a debate against me,
about something you found immature in a joke . Now who’s overreacting…?

I don’t think that highly of my self, how you think I probably do. I
merely mentioned that (for the first time here) of what I know and can
do and feel in my heart, to show you that I am mature. Not that you
care, not that I care, it’s just that you were ****ing me off making
unfair assumptions, while not even knowing me. And still are.

I have nothing to prove to anyone, I can careless. Just don’t attack my character, because that’s personal.

Btw way, how old are you? Are you speaking about maybe your life?
Why do you have many regrets? I find it that sometimes people your age
speak from experience… Well let me tell you something, not all 21 year
olds end up with a screwed up life. I am just happened to want to do
something about the world’s condition. But I guess those ideals died in
you along time ago, and now accept the life you have everyday for what
it is. Man, that’s sad. Maybe instead of condemning us young “whimper
snappers,” you should listen to us. Our will to fight is strong (some
of us) might wake you up and feel the need to do something.

Sincerely,

Javier C.

P.S. Yeah Rick, shortly after BCT, I got medically discharged. It’s a personal matter though, and I don’t wish to talk about it thanks.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 11:29 AM

Oh come on Lola, it’s it for fun, then tell me how many times have I been attacked by you, and told that I am hostile?

Please.

-J.C.


Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 11:47 AM

Mel, I’ve been following this thread and it’s comicbook format for
some time now. I don’t think it matters if this Titor guy is from the
future or from Jersey. It was fun listening to his rap. The other guy
Xavier?….well.

“Poor misguided Mel. You speak as if you almost knew better. Yet
still you know nothing about my life, and insist that I am what you
claim to be. Well I hate bragging about my self, but I see that it’s
necessary. Or else you’ll continue to know nothing about me, and
continue ****ing me off. So here I go…”

Ok, that was a classic ‘Ming the Merciless’ opener. Guess we’ll have to set our blasters on stun. Here comes the pedigree.

“Are you a 2nd Degree black belt in Karate?”

No and if I was I would know that it is considered very poor behavior to tout one’s supposed skill in martial arts.

“(Everyone in my family knows how to defend themselves, tradition since I am a quarter Chinese, my blood demands it).”

The parenthesis is to inform us of qualifying information…as if
he were saying it under his breath while delivering the Vulcan Death
Grip.

“Were you a League Champ in High School Wrestling?”

This is to let you know that in the tradition of the WWF…”Talk’s
cheap Bozo! Let’s get it on!”…and we wonder why kids in southern
California are shooting…

“How about going through Army Basic Training?”

No thanks, already went through Marine training myself back when it
WAS hard and the little pieces of army guys get caught between my
teeth.

“I know tough, if anything I am far from weak and like an average 21 year old.”

The average 21 year old is a limp sack of s**t who worships at a
mall and is more concerned with the tenderness of his feelings than the
toughness of his resolve.

“I am incredibly disciplined.”

This guy should get together with Helen Reddy and roar.

“I don’t wait another day to speak my mind and take action on things that are wrong.”

Sounds like he’s running for office here.

“Growing up in So.Cal I’ve seen death, I’ve seen terror, and I’ve seen people taken advantage of.”

James Taylor couldn’t say it any better…gimme’ my guitar and lemme’ put on that workshirt and wide belt….

“Maybe it’s different where you were brought up, but these kinds of things I I want to do something about them.”

Using two ‘I’s like that gives me a suspicion that this may be a Rastafarian masquerading as a Pastafarian..

“So pardon, for taking a stand and wanting to do something about the wrong things in life.”

Well, at least he apologizes but I wish he would bring back that stand. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

“You don’t see many young people doing that, and I believe it should be encouraged, not condemned.”

Bring up super of American flag come in for close up as tear rolls down cheek raise music and fade to credits…..

“Thank you very much; those were my 2 cents,”

Final shot thanking the armed forces for their help and cooperation
and the people of China for their one quarter donation of genetic
material….go to black. End.

[Edited by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 at 11:50 AM]


Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 12:14 PM

Arrow

Hi, I commend your passion for what you yourself believe. I wish to
point out that every other person in the world also has their own
beliefs. It is when a person appears to, or even tries to foist their
own beliefs on others that the problems arise. Not everyone here
believes that TT is an immoral or evil technology. You know this, but
my point is that you appear to be going about distributing your beleif
in a counter-productive way.

Your current method of discussion seems clouded by your passionate
dislike for the technology and frankly, it is hard to take you serious
because of that. At your web site you describe your beliefs. It was an
interesting read, but it is also not in the same form of presentation
as you are giving here. I would actually like to know more about your
view, but you seem to view people who are older than you in a
distrustful if not aggravated way. Although I believe differently than
you about the application of TT technology, I would sincerely be
interested in understanding your belief when presented in a less
inflamed fashion.

For the sake of discussion, suppose John really is a TT. What are
you specifically trying to accomplish in this dialogue? If you feel
others are wrong, ok, but say why others are wrong without attacking. I
mean, if you want someone to understand your viewpoint, calling them
sheep is a bad way to start.

Phil


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 12:16 PM

Wink

I do not think that Russia attacks the US with people, just missiles.

Anyway, I have no information about much of this topic.

It would not do anybody any good to ask me any question.

I just tried to bring up points for discussion and maybe some ‘bad’ jokes.

Rick, look at it this way,:

If you have enough advance warning like John said,

how long would it take you to drive to Omaha (maybe an airplane)(about 611 miles)?

You can ball me out in person, if this story is true.

Bring some water, and a distillation unit for it, and how fast can you really drive, if enough advanced warning.

You can tell me all day, ‘See, I told you so!’ or something.

In fact, it true, how long would it take anyone to get to Omaha, I
drove straight through to Florida, 1200 miles, only took 24 hours, on a
lazy driving trip.

We can all sit down and have a cup of coffee of something.

Or I’ll be on my way surely, if all this is happening.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 12:20 PM

Ok,

I think Lee tapped the nail on the head… once, then drove it home. LOL.

Sorry, but that was funny as all get-out. But, I don’t think it is
necessary for any of us to be attacking anyone. Once the forum
degenerates for those who are (perhaps) trying to cause it to
degenerate, no longer will communication work.

In other words, as much fun as Javier, Lee, myself and others are
having with the barbs and insults… they are very counter-productive.

I personally apologize to Javier for my comment about his military
discharge. That wasn’t any of my business and I really shouldn’t have
taken it to that level. I’m sorry Javier. Your discharge is not the
subject of discussion here (even though you DID throw it out to be
picked on like you did, I shouldn’t have picked on it).

Now – I’m not saying that we shouldn’t debate. In fact, I think a
good argument is very good, however, we should stick as closely to the
facts as we see them, and try to explain to each other WHY we take the
tack we take on talking the way we are. I’ve tried in past posts to do
so.

Now – another subject. My post a few back that is entitled “Military
Involvment”… please do not read anything into that. I’ve received
several quite interesting messages today trying to dechiper what I
said.

PLEASE – There is NOTHING to dechiper. What I intended was a sort
of “panic reduction” message. Sometimes in these forums (and this is
not the first, nor will it be the last) people get the feeling they are
being stalked by the government, or some Men in Black or something. I
can’t say that doesn’t happen, but I can tell you from PERSONAL
EXPERIENCE that if someone suspects you of some national security
violation, they are NOT going to contact you via email.

They ARE going to find out what you’re about, and might even
contact you in person, but they will be legitimate law enforcement
officers, not men in black, not guys in green or any other
Three-Letter-Agency EXCEPT the FBI.

See the FBI is the US Law Enforcement agency that has jurisdiction
over national security matters within the United States and its
territories. NSA ain’t coming out, CIA won’t bother with you, and if
there are Men in Black, I bet you dimes to Martian quarters they aren’t
Americans (or Earthlings). http://www.artbell.com/img/marsmoney.jpg

So chances are, if some dufus from the Pentagon is contacting you via
email, he is definately a dufus, isn’t authorized, and certainly isn’t
from the Pentagon (or any other such place, Area 51, UFO Island or
anywhere else). If the guy comes to your door with a badge book and
says “FBI”… ask him if he has a warrant and then send him on his way
if he doesn’t.

Otherwise… don’t get too wrapped up in being paranoid.

That’s MY job.

Rick

[Edited by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 at 01:38 PM]


Posted by David R Ferguson on 03-22-2001 12:27 PM

Smile

Just when things started getting REALLY interesting….


Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 12:28 PM

I’m really, really sorry if my little cut-up has hurt ANYONE’S
feelings or bruised the ever so delicate sensitivities of others who
post here. I’m especially sorry if I’ve hacked off the Chinese. I just
thought Mel was getting short shrift and…well…dang it all..Mel,
dude…I LOVE YOU MAN! There, I’m glad I got that off my chest. Now I’m
gonna look at those fuzzy pictures of John’s time traveling golf cart
and see if I can make heads or tails out of any of it.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 12:28 PM

Lee Heggy,

Thank you very much for scrutinizing everything I said in a Howard
Stern manner. But you missed my point. You asked no real questions, had
no real dialogue. Just commented and ran off saying vicinities. Just
like Mel.

I take it you speak like this often.

((and we wonder why kids in southern California are shooting…))

Maybe because of people like you.


Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 12:38 PM

I think I got your point quite well and if not then you just made it
for me with your nasty little tag at the end of your squawk. Sorry if I
stepped on your tail.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 12:41 PM

Where you been Phil?

(( but my point is that you appear to be going about distributing your beleif in a counter-productive way. ))

What would be a productive way for you?

((Your current method of discussion seems clouded by your passionate
dislike for the technology and frankly, it is hard to take you serious
because of that.))

If you knew illegal drugs were bad and could kill your kids if they tried that, wouldn’t you tell them, and hate illegal drugs?

((….. you seem to view people who are older than you in a distrustful if not aggravated way.))

When? All I did was answer Mel’s questions, and I didn’t even say every old person. I said him in particular.

(( I would sincerely be interested in understanding your belief when presented in a less inflamed fashion.))

Again, how should I present it?

((… you feel others are wrong, ok, but say why others are wrong
without attacking. I mean, if you want someone to understand your
viewpoint, calling them sheep is a bad way to start.))

First off, haven’t I been telling people how it’s wrong? Second of
all, sheep was a comment to those people that bowed to John like if he
can’t be wrong. To people who wouldn’t listen to any other side but
John’s.

I hope this clarifies things.


Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 12:48 PM

Unhappy

Lee said:

(and we wonder why kids in southern California are shooting…))

Javier said:

“Maybe because of people like you.”

I say:

Ouch! Wrong forum to be discussing the child shooters, but I have
looked at why it happens and come up with my own conclusions. People
like Lee are not among the evidence. C’mon Javier, I am rootin’ for a
constructive dialogue.


Posted by Bob Marz on 03-22-2001 12:55 PM

1. “Some things are worth fighting for.” Chocolate, maybe, but the
credibility of a self-proclaimed time traveler ln an internet message
board?

2. People are drawing conclusions based sheerly on the issue of whether
Titor has posted lately, concluding its an admission of guilt, knavery,
chicanery, etc. It proves no such thing. The fact that you draw a
flawed or hasty conclusion or project causal connections has nothing to
do with reality itself. There are all sorts of legitimate reasons why
he might not have posted lately.

3. I think Javier sees himself as Don Quixote, the man of La
Mancha, defending us “sheep,” and deluded “followers” of the ‘Pie
Pipper’(sic), ie, the guardian alpha-male patrolling the edge of the
herd for danger. I see him as a good guy too, but one who because of
tenacity and obsession, has singlehandedly beaten the funfactor of this
thread to a bloody pulp.


Posted by Lee Heggy on 03-22-2001 12:55 PM

Thanks for the vote of confidence there Phil. Xavier also said that,

“I take it you speak like this often.”

and then in the very next post replicates my form of posting. (which
isn’t patented and used by thousands of others as well) Imitation is a
form of flattery though and I’ll take it for what it’s worth. I’m
logging off and leaving now (not running). I’ve got to go eat a burger
before they are outlawed.


Posted by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 01:01 PM

Jeez, you guys, I wish you wouldn’t encourage him. Now we will never be able to move on. Very funny, though,

Lola


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 01:25 PM

Phil,

Ouch? It wasn’t me who started. I had to finish it though… You support
the person who just attacked me by defending his statements. But don’t
wish to answer my questions? Talk about being counter-productive…

Where’s your credibility now? Where do you stand? I thought you
wanted me to say where people are wrong. Which is just what I did… And
have been doing from the start.

Any further questions?

-Javier C.


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 01:25 PM

Is Javier or Time Travel the subject of discussion now?


Posted by Mel Reckling on 03-22-2001 01:31 PM

Thanks guys for coming to my defense. In response to your post. I am
47 years old and yes I was once 21. Regrets I’ve had a few, but than
again too few to mention(thanks Mr. Sinatra). Didn’t Al Bundy once
score 4 touchdowns in a single game in high school and still wind up a
shoe salesman?

I know I’m a nobody, but I’ll ask you do you own a Porsche? I do.
Do you own your own business? I do. Have you ever shot under par in
golf? I have 8 times. Do you own your home? I do. About 15 years ago I
was one of the top 50 Toyota salesman in the country. The point is none
of this matters. We all have our own accomplishments. The only thing
I’m apparently good at is getting under some people’s skin on this post
to post BBS.

By the time I was 21 I had been to Europe twice. Once made it back from
Amsterdam with only 20 bucks in my pocket and having to hitch through
N.Y.C. The important thing in life is to make the most of your
experiences and to listen to the advice of people more experienced than
yourself. I guess I’m doomed to be an old Fuddy Duddy.

I feel a truce is in order. We are way off topic and they’ll
probably pull the plug on us at any time. Let me know how you feel.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 01:31 PM

Rick,

I don’t know what’s up with some of these people. It could be anything.
It could be the fact that John isn’t here. Maybe now that Darby is
perhaps brining people to realize what they believed John to be, has
upsetted them a bit. Or maybe they hate us, for being apart of driving
John away, I don’t know. Those are my guesses though.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 01:37 PM

Sure Mel, I guess we can have a truce. Even though I have more to say .

But remember, I had no body supporting me, I am half your age, and someday I will own a house. All in due time.

Truly,

Javier C.

P.S. Actually I am only 20 years old. My birthday is in 3 weeks .

[Edited by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 at 01:40 PM]


Posted by Rick Donaldson on 03-22-2001 01:45 PM

Javier,

It isn’t “these people”… it’s you my friend. It wasn’t John that brought out the worst in any of us, it was each of us in turn, turning up the heat.

You have a way of upsetting people, and quickly. When they feel the
must defend whatever it is you’ve upset them about, they come back with
all guns a-blazing.

Seriously, you do have a problem with time travelers – so it seems,
and you’re dead set on proving it. We all understand that, but here,
the point it moot. We don’t care too much whether or not you like them,
we only care to prove the truth.

Unfortunately, none of us, except John can do that right now, and he isn’t around.

I sort of suspected he vanish quietly – and he apparently has. So…
rather than everyone discussing the points of being 21/43 or 56, we
should be discussing the data we DO have, pictures and otherwise, and
trying to piece together what little we know.

If John is real, and he wants a person to observe, he will let us
know. Note that it is my opinion he won’t want us to, and if he DOES
provide a video, obviously none of us are going to believe it. Which,
by the way, John stated several times in the beginning – “I do not WANT
you to believe” – I think were his words.

The bickering accomplishes nothing, except to escalate a war that
has no purpose. Testosterone has its place, but it ain’t here.

Rick


Posted by Albert Cattoir on 03-22-2001 01:53 PM

I admit I am confused.

I may have to consult “Doctor Who”, President of Galifry, President
of the High Council of ‘Time Lords’ and ask him a few questions. He’s
usually off though fighting humans mortal enemey, the ‘Darleks’.


Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 01:53 PM

Post

“What would be a productive way for you?”

Well, since you ask, I would attempt to describe my view in a clear
and descriptive manner. I have read all your posts and your web site. I
still do not understand *specifically* what your view IS based on. You
may have stated these things in previous posts, but overall the tone
you take in presenting has made it difficult to assemble an accurate
picture of what it is you are trying to say. The objective in
presentations is to make it EASY for the ‘viewer’ to understand. The
rhetoric confuses your message.

“If you knew illegal drugs were bad and could kill your kids if they tried that, wouldn’t you tell them, and hate illegal

drugs? “

I do know why certain drugs are illegal. I am aware that people die
from them sometimes. I had a friend who went on a research trip on
homelessness and lived the life and tried heroin and died. I have no
kids, but should I be so graced as to have them someday, I would raise
them knowing that I am the one man they can always count on to care
about them. I would encourage the discussion of anything, no matter the
subject by not violating trust issues involved in personal discussions.
If said child were to somehow become involved with the drugs, I would
not hate the drugs, I would find the distributor of said drugs to
children and at the very least quietly talk to my local PD Detectives
about removing said distributor from society. As for said child, I
would desire to discover why they felt the need to do illegal drugs,
but not freak on the child so they do not shut down and hate their
elders.

“All I did was answer Mel’s questions, and I didn’t even say every old person. I said him in particular.”

Sorry. I was a tad too broad perhaps, but there is a valid point to
make. Sometimes people state things in such a way that they themself do
not see how others are reading\hearing it. The way I read your comment
was indeed toward Mel when viewed on its own, but collectively your
demeanor seems fairly anti-toward people you do not know personally and
may happen to be older than yourself.

“First off, haven’t I been telling people how it’s wrong?”

Perhaps you have, but it seems to come across as if to say *because I say so*

“…sheep was a comment to those people that

bowed to John like if he can’t be wrong. To people who wouldn’t listen to any other side but John’s.”

Again, Its all in how you state things. The way in which you stated
the sheep comment literally implied that everyone else were sheep.
Again, you may not see that implication, but it IS there.

“I hope this clarifies things”

Me too. I almost admire the enthusiasm you show, but as I see it,
when enthusiasm is coupled with a hatred of something it becomes a
crusade. The crusades were over long ago. I urge you to re-evaluate
your feeling of hatred, but I will not suggest you rethink your view.
Hate is such an ugly emotion that it consumes ones soul. I am not
intending to offend you Javier and it is not my goal to help everyone
in the world, but you have such a determined passion, it seems a waste
to see that consumed with the hatred. I hated someone before. Turns
out, I had been harming myself by hating that person. They were
external to me so I moved on with life and although I still Strongly
dislike them, I do not throw myself into their path on purpose and am a
pretty happy guy.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 02:40 PM

Phil,

Your empathic nature is understandable. But I cannot always be
concern by how someone will interpret what I say. I don’t claim to be a
people person; I never said I would be politically correct. I said I
would do what’s right, and bring out the truth. Which is what we are
all looking for, and doing?

So my way is different. Is there a standard I have to follow?

You can get the same results in many different ways. I suppose
being offence, instead of defense or neutral is what most people prefer
that I be. That’s very nice, but it wouldn’t fit my nature.

Action if more my forte, defense might be another mans way of solving
problems. And some are neutral (pacifists) who don’t try, but get
things done somehow.

Each way has it’s own merit. Like many others things in this world (religions, schools, governments). I choose action though.

-Javier C.


Posted by Phil Fiord on 03-22-2001 02:54 PM

Arrow

I was not trying to change you. I was simply offering advice on a
more effective way to get your message understood. If force is your
way, so be it, but be prepared to be misunderstood. No harm no foul. No
disrespect. Take care Javier. I believe you have peoples best interest
at heart, but I also believe you are taking the hard path to
communication.


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 03:10 PM

My way is not so much force, but actually doing something. Taking
action. Force by it’s self sounds really bad. And I guess that’s were I
was misunderstood. Oh well, thanks for understanding . I’m glad we could all come to a resolution.

-Javier C.


Posted by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 03:29 PM

This thread has gone south. Rick, I think you should be the one to
start a new thread on TT where we can carry on our previous discussion
and leave these guys to worry over JC’s communication style (or lack
thereof).

[Edited by Lola Montez on 03-22-2001 at 03:32 PM]


Posted by Javier Cortez on 03-22-2001 06:10 PM

And what previous discussion would that be? Supporting a man who claims to be from the future? Ookkaayy.

-J.C.


Posted by Emmett “Darby” Darbyshire on 03-22-2001 06:19 PM

Rick,

What Boomer has described so far, even though he uses the term
Tipler Sinusoid, isn’t the description of a Tipler cylinder. Professor
Tipler describes the cylinder as having 10 solar masses or more and
squeezed into an infinitely dense and